http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bk/bkn/7112737.html

I was hoping the Bulls would re-sign him.

Good signing.

$5 million in each of the first 2 seasons and only $1 million guaranteed in the 3rd season.

I like this. gives you a proven quality backup this coming season and a guy who could start 2 seasons from now if they let Yao walk.

the rockets try really hard, but they just don't have what it takes-

Miller is a great signing for a contender, but how many average players can you put on the court at one time?

kudos to the Rockets but this don't help

I love this signing

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I like this. gives you a proven quality backup this coming season and a guy who could start 2 seasons from now if they let Yao walk.

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You do know this guy is a washed up 34 year old vet, right?

[This message has been edited by aggie_2001_2005 (edited 7/17/2010 11:58p).]

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if they let Yao walk.

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doubtful

i didn't say 2 years from now he would play 40 minutes and be an all-star. but last year proved HOU needs a true sized center rather than having a 6'6" chuck hayes fill in at the 5.

miller would be serviceable at 36 playing maybe 25-28 min, much like Deke was at times even though he was pushing 40 with much higher mileage.

[This message has been edited by mm98 (edited 7/18/2010 4:41p).]

[This message has been edited by mm98 (edited 7/18/2010 5:28p).]

I'm pretty sure Mutumbo was 70.

The Rockets have done as well as could be expected this offseason.

I love the Patterson pick.

The kept Lowery and Scola which the needed to do and said they would do.

They added the best center in FA that fit them.

They are loaded with trade able assets, players and picks and a number of expiring contracts.

If Yao's health hold and that could go either way, as is, this is 50+ win team. It is not a championship team more then likely but that is really hard to predict. A healthy Rockets team will give the Lakers all they can handle but probably comes up short, HOwever this team has a lot depth and a lot weapons and can play a lot different styles.

It's an outstanding offensive team but is suspect defensively. Battier, Ariza (who gambles too much in my book) Hayes and Lowry are the only + defensive players on the team at this time. Hill and Patterson have potential to be plus defenders as does Taylor and to some degree Bud, but they are not at this time. Yao is a better defender then given credit for, regularly dominates head to head matchups with other top ranked centers and is surely a presence that has to accounted for in the paint. Even Duncan respects Yao as a defender. He is not a great defender by any means, nor is he a poor defender.

The key to this year at this time are:

1. Yao's health, really the Rocket's health they have had a number of guys miss significant playing time last year.

That's a concern, only Scola, Hayes and surprisingly Brooks (guy is made of rubber) did not miss time to injury last year. Brooks got worn out when Lowry went down. That had as much to do with the record as Lowry's injury. Brooks does not need to be playing 40+ minutes every night, an really know one does.

2. The continued development of Aaron Brooks.

Has he peeked or does he still have room for improvement, I think he will be more consistent this year and still has room to take his game up a notch, plus this is contract year.

3. How do the kids develop.

Normally there is a significant improvement from year one to year two. I see Bud getting better, Taylor may wins some time. Hill is a slow developer a type of guy that may take 3 to 4 years to find him self. I think Patterson is an early contributor but will have the inconsistencies that most rookies face as they adjust to the NBA game.

4. How will things be around the Feb deadline.

I am pretty convinced that Morey will stand pat for now unless he just gets a sweetheart of a deal. How teams are doing around the trade deadline can have a huge effect on things going forward.

If teams with top flight players are struggling the Rocks have a variety of assets to put together a deal, expiring contracts, some young guys and draft picks.

Bottom line, I don't think this is over. Of course having a healthy Yao and a winning Rocket's team at that time would be helpful in making them a desirable destination for disgruntled elite players.

i agree on all 4 points.

Nice insight OPAG.

Many say that this Rocket line-up is not a contender. I happen to think that if we can remain relatively injury-free, we stack up well with many of the top Western Conference teams. The assets those teams possess that the Rockets do not, however, are bonified star-caliber players. Yao is the closest thing to that on the roster and remains on the bubble of the list as far as I am concerned. He is the best offensive center in the NBA and changes the game when he is in the low block. He's a magnificent asset if he were to be paired with a legitimate All-Star. Kevin Martin is the next best thing, but I would be remiss to call him a star. He can absolutely fill it up on offense but is streaky, injury prone, and a completely inept defender. Aaron Brooks, Luis Scola, and Trevor Ariza are fantastic talents in their own rights, but are not the game-changers (especially in crunch-time) championship-caliber teams possess.

I see solid depth across the board from the Houston Rockets. It's a really sound line-up with a ton of depth. If there were to be a position or two of weakness, the Rox could stand to upgrade our starting 2,3, or 4. That's to say that if a star were added at one of those positions, the Rockets would be poised to contend with the best teams in the West.

So I ask, how could the Rockets go about adding that one missing piece to the puzzle? A more specific question would be: nearing the February trade deadline, realistically who do you think we could trade for to fill that void? By realistically, I don't mean the LeBron James, Kevin Durants or Brandon Roys of the world. But I could see scenarios where we could bring in one of the following players in a trade to make this good team potentially great:

- Chris Paul (PG) - talk is that the Hornets can't afford him, and he wants out...

- Andre Iguodala (SG/SF) - 76ers just drafted Evan Turner #2 overall; they play virtually the same position. Rockets were reportedly interested in him this past trade deadline. Is he any better than Martin or Ariza?

- Gerald Wallace (SF) - better offensive option than Ariza.

- Danny Granger (SF) - aside from Paul, my top choice if a trade could get done. Very versatile player that doesn't get the notoriety he deserves playing for a poor Indiana Pacers team. Rumblings last year that he wanted to force a trade to a contender...

Are there any other players you think the Rockets could actually make a deal for that would elevate their championship capabilities?

Don't want Andre Iguodala. Not a great 3pt shooter.

What about if Carmello Anthony was available at the trade deadline?

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Many say that this Rocket line-up is not a contender. I happen to think that if we can remain relatively injury-free, we stack up well with many of the top Western Conference teams.

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All depends on what Yao we see. If he is a 18mpg player or if he is a 30mpg player.

I don't think we are ever going to see the same Yao we saw in 09 that was able to average 34mpg in 77 games. And even if he does regain that, I don't think this Rockets team can beat the Lakers or Heat.

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The assets those teams possess that the Rockets do not, however, are bonified star-caliber players. Yao is the closest thing to that on the roster and remains on the bubble of the list as far as I am concerned.

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Bingo. The Rockets aren't balanced like the 04 Pistons. They aren't a defensive standout like them from top to bottom. (Brooks and Martin especially suck ass on D.)
A team without a true star can really be great, but they need to be a legendary team on defense, and they have to be very balanced and very deep without weak points. This years Rockets aren't that.

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He is the best offensive center in the NBA and changes the game when he is in the low block.

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Well cool.

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- Chris Paul (PG) - talk is that the Hornets can't afford him, and he wants out...

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The Hornets can afford him. They are not in the luxury tax this year. To get him, you have to give up a package of picks, prospects and take off Okefor and Posey - their two worst contracts.

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- Andre Iguodala (SG/SF) - 76ers just drafted Evan Turner #2 overall; they play virtually the same position. Rockets were reportedly interested in him this past trade deadline. Is he any better than Martin or Ariza?

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To get Iggy, you have to take on Brand.

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- Gerald Wallace (SF) - better offensive option than Ariza.

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He isn't on the block. Charlotte is trying to build, not rebuild.

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- Danny Granger (SF) - aside from Paul, my top choice if a trade could get done. Very versatile player that doesn't get the notoriety he deserves playing for a poor Indiana Pacers team. Rumblings last year that he wanted to force a trade to a contender...

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Well, yeah. You and everyone else. He is really talented. And Indiana turned down a trade offer of Granger for Devin Harris+Derrick Favors (#3 Draft pick). What do you have that is going to beat that?

The Rockets need a star. I think they are going to be lucky if Yao can play a Rik Smits or Z role from here on out. Martin would be a good complimentary player, if you had a decent defensive PG and Ariza with him.

The Rockets main need is to upgrade and get a stud at PF. Someone that can pound the blocks, play D and lead them. Brooks is a sparkplug, but he is the type of player that is best suited as a 6th man. I just don't know that his ego will allow that.

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I just don't know that his ego will allow that.

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You're joking right? Aaron brooks is one of the most down to earth, humble players in the league.

i'm not convinced aaron brooks is really in their long-term plans. i like him a lot, but the bottom line is that he's an undersized, score-first point guard. he's not only a poor defender, but he hasn't even showed marked improvement in that department. i also think his game is better suited without yao down low, crowding up the paint.

for all those reasons, i think brooks is probably one of the key assets that morey would look to move in a trade. while lowry doesn't bring quite as much offensively, he's a smart player and a solid defender. i think morey beleives they could win with lowry at PG if the right trade for brooks came along.

I totally agree, Jackie. Last year was nice in being able to hsow off Brooks.

If you can build the right team around him, a PG like Lowry who is tough, doesn't make stupid decisions, can make the passes and get out of they way and play defense is invaluable. All he needs is to work on his range and add a consistent 3-ball to his game.

Brooks would be fine coming off the bench to spark a run in the second period, but he isn't the guy I would want to see running the team.

But, again, the Rockets have the problem of no star. I don't think Yao will ever be a star.

And, I think the Knicks are a playoff team next year with DAntoni. If not, they are pretty close. It is doubtful that the Rockets get the #2 pick next year.

Amare/Mozgov/Turiaf
Anthony Randolph
Wilson Chandler/Danilo Gallinari
Kenny Azubuike/Toney Douglas
Raymond Felton/Douglas

Short of trading Yao, I'm not real sure how to turn the nice trading pieces on the Rockets into a legit star. The Rockets are built as a team that just needs a star at post. They have great complimentary players. They just don't have the star post player in place.

Soup you, me or anyone else has a clue about how Yao is going to be. However if anyone is going to evaluate him to the negative side is it you. You will have a definte bias there. To compare him to Smits and Z is laughable, even post surgery. He was so much more then they were before surgery.

This surgery has been successful in past and there is really no reason that it can't be succesful for Yao. His game isn't all the sudden going to disappear. It simply comes down to 2 things.

1. Over coming the fear of re injury. I don't think that will be so hard. This is not a pain issue here. He doesn't have any pain. If he plays a bit and feels OK he will not worry about it.

2. How well we he hold up. He is big guy but has lost weight and is looking to lose about 20 more.

There is a posibility that this surgery might actually improve his game. Why.

1. I suspect we'll see him at the HP more and shoot the 15 to 18 ft jumper, something that he is very profecient at that Van Gundy didn't use. He is more then just a block player. I suspect we'll see a more well rounded offensive game.

2. I think the weight lose could help his quickness. He has never been quick but he has never been the stiffs that Z, Bradley and Smits were. I don't think we are going to see Yao posting inside and getting mugged all the time.


Bottom line is your prediction about Yao's fade into obscurity is a typical shot in the dark against any player not a Spur! YOU HAVE NO CLUE AND NEITHER DOES ANYONE ELSE.

I also disagree on the aspect that Brooks is a horrible defender. He is an inconsistent defender who had to be a go to offensive guy and is still figuring that out. He has not poured effort into be a defender. He surely has the ability to be an outstanding on the ball defender. His size is a disadvantage when it comes to pick and roll, especially when the refs are him to be knocked off the ball by a screener.

He is not an + defender by any means, but he has room to get better and he surely isn't horrid. He's s just inconsistent and if you are playing the type of games the Rocks did last year, which was push, push, push and you are playing 40+ mins a night and your are the go to O guy, YOUR GOING TO BE INCONSISTENT ON DEFENSE.

I do beleive the key to the Rockets success, besides Yao's health is how the develop as a defensive team. Need to remember that two years ago only Brooks, Batteir, Hayes and Scola were on this team, It has had a major make over since last Feb. Let's see how they develop together. It should be fun.

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Soup you, me or anyone else has a clue about how Yao is going to be. However if anyone is going to evaluate him to the negative side is it you. You will have a definte bias there. To compare him to Smits and Z is laughable, even post surgery. He was so much more then they were before surgery.

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If you are going to talk about bias, you should mention your own ridiculous homer bias.


Here is my bias with the Rockets:
I go to a lot of games
I am friends with a lot of the people in the organization
I like the Rockets.
I financially benefit from the Rockets being good.

So tell me again how I am biased against the Rockets. The truth is, that I like the team and am involved with the team, but I am not emotionally invested at all with the team, so I can see it without the pajama-pinstriped goggles, unlike you.

Laughable to compare Yao to Smits or Z?
Not quite.
Smits averaged 14-19ppg and 6-8rpg for the bulk of his career. Last season Yao played, he averaged 19.9 and 9.9. If his SEVERE foot, leg and back injuries slow him down a little, the 14-19 and 6-8 range looks pretty much excellent. If the Rockets got 75 games and 17/8 out of Yao next year, they would be absolutely thrilled. Likewise, Z has been about a 13-17ppg and 7-9rpg player. It would be great if Yao could produce like that this year.
Best case senario is that Yao returns to 25/10. But remember that Yao has never played 60+ games AND scored 20.0+ppg AND gotten 10.0+RPG. It has NEVER happened, even before his injuries.
When Yao put up his best career numbers, he was only playing about half the season due to injuries AND the Rockets had a lot less weapons. These were the Rafer Alston/Bonzi Wells/Luther Head/Juwan Howard/David Wesley/Stromile Swift teams. Now, Yao is sharing the ball with Aaron Brooks, Trevor Ariza, Luis Scola, Kevin Martin, etc. This team has a LOT more talent. You just aren't going to see Yao average over 20 ppg this year. Hopefully, you won't see him average over 30mpg, either.

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This surgery has been successful in past and there is really no reason that it can't be succesful for Yao.

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How many times has it been performed on 7'5 300+lb men who make their living running, jumping and cutting?

As has been seen many times before, foot problems for big people is a very, very bad thing.

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1. Over coming the fear of re injury. I don't think that will be so hard. This is not a pain issue here. He doesn't have any pain. If he plays a bit and feels OK he will not worry about it.

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You know what Yao feels? [/laughing/crying]

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There is a posibility that this surgery might actually improve his game. Why.

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Now that is just hilarious.

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1. I suspect we'll see him at the HP more and shoot the 15 to 18 ft jumper, something that he is very profecient at that Van Gundy didn't use. He is more then just a block player. I suspect we'll see a more well rounded offensive game.

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JVG used his mid range game all the time. That's Yao's strongest part of his game and has been since he was a rookie.

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2. I think the weight lose could help his quickness. He has never been quick but he has never been the stiffs that Z, Bradley and Smits were. I don't think we are going to see Yao posting inside and getting mugged all the time.

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Seriously? You are making the argument that a debilitating foot injury that is so bad it required a bone graf and YEAR of rehab is going to make him quicker?

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Bottom line is your prediction about Yao's fade into obscurity is a typical shot in the dark against any player not a Spur!

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I didn't say Yao would fade into obscurity. Just because you made up something saying I did doesn't make it true.

You can't argue with the truth, so you have to make up lies.

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I also disagree on the aspect that Brooks is a horrible defender.

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Holy ****, you are retarded, then. Brooks is absolutely horrible. It is plain to see by anyone with any sort of basketball knowledge. He isn't good and he can get posted up by every guard in the league.

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He's s just inconsistent and if you are playing the type of games the Rocks did last year, which was push, push, push and you are playing 40+ mins a night and your are the go to O guy, YOUR GOING TO BE INCONSISTENT ON DEFENSE.

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Bull****. Kobe and LeBron both excelled at defense last year. Both were the goto guy on offense. Both pushed the ball a lot. Both played more minutes than Brooks.

Completely agree with OPAG

And he is right. You literally have no idea what you are talking about with Yao.

I apparently know a lot more than either of you.

If you look up above before OPAG posted, I said we really dont know what we will get with Yao. He could be a 18mpg player or a 30mpg player. It is all a crapshoot right now.

None of really know what he is going to be capable of. We won't know for a while. The thing that is really working against him is that it isn't like the foot problem has been his only problem.

Yao had big toe problems on his left foot in 05.
Yao broke the 5th metatarsal in left foot in 06. He did this twice previous to coming to the Rockets. This sucks. I did the same thing. It is called a Jones fracture.
Yao broke a bone in his leg near his right knee.
In 08, Yao had a stress fracture in his foot that he played on.
Yao's surgery was for breaking a different bone again in his left foot.

Yao is very tough (and really nice) but it is hard to be optimistic about his injuries when you are informed about the history of those similar injuries with other people of his size, weight and demands on his body.

To think that after suffering this many injuries AND playing with much better teammates that he will have worse numbers and less playing time is not all that far fetched. To think he is going to be a better player than he was before is absolutely insane.

Normal soup makes it personal and over reacts.

The word improve is probably not the best choice of words. The word 'expand' would probably fit better.

He may spend more time facing the basket and shooting the 14 to 18 footer then he has in the past. It is not I who is an idiot,

(and no I am not an idiot and you know it. I don't think your an idiot I just think that from time to time your an ass and have a specific slanted bias towards your guys and against other guys, your bias against Yao is long term. and you have been owned consistently there, just like your jack ass comment that Jacoby Jones was likely to be cut! LOL!!! )

if you think Van Gundy utilized Yao's mid range game from the HP or off the elbow. HE DIDN'T.

I think we may see more diversity from Yao and that may lead to an overal improvement.

2. He may gain some quickness depending on how much weight he loses coming into the year.

He has been playing around 315, if drops under 300 it is not inconceiveable that he may gain a little quickness. Smits and Z never were never as athletic as Yao, never to compare them in that aspect is nuts. They were never go to players either, Yao is and Yao is much better passer then they ever were. Yao's personal stats could go down and yet his game could have improved and the Rockets could improve as well. That's what I am alluding to, I think the surgery is going to cause him to emphasize other phases of his game that he is really quite good at that up till know he has not.

Maybe it won't but the possibility is not nuts.

But you do what you always do, go look up stats and try to compare that way. I am not interested in the stats they don't give an accurate picture and it's lunacy to try to use those type of stats to compare players, simply because this isn't tennis or some individual sport. It's like I said in a different thread where we agreed, Cartwright added so much more to the Bulls in MJ first run then the Stats indicate.

A lot of factors go in to stats including team make up and philosophy. Yao is not a diva, he could care less about personal stats. He just wants to win. So with a team as loaded with offesive weapons as the Rockets are, with Brooks and Martin at the 1 and 2 it is very conceivable that his personal stats may go down.

I can invision teams continuing to front him and opening up lanes to drive that both Martin and Brooks and even Ariza and Bud can take advantage of.

That doesn't go in the stats but the truth is Yao's influecne on a game may actually improve.

I know that's hard for you to grasp because it doesn't come from some ESPN reporter or stats moniter.

The thing is Soup, you use stats when you think it is to your advantage and discount them when it is isn't. I am pretty consistent, you never see me use stats as a measure, simply because they are not a constant and there are so many other nuances that are really important that aren't conveyed through them.

We just have to choose to disagree on Brooks, I have seen him play some really good D, even in the post. However your stating that a PG is not a good defensive player because he is not an elite post defender is laughable! Very few Pgs are elite post defenders that's simply because very few PGs are elite offensive post players! So Parker is good Post defender!?!

In head to head mathcups Brooks his held his own pretty well, he has schooled by some unheralded guys, he normally raises his defense when going against elite guys, That's what I am talking about when I talk about consistency and the other factor of having to be the offensive go to guy. Yao's return will help Brooks defense immensely, just like Duncan's presence helps Parker and Ginobli immensely, Come on soup quit acting like and Ass!

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He may spend more time facing the basket and shooting the 14 to 18 footer then he has in the past.

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So you are saying he is going to be less mobile, so he is going to spend more time AWAY from the basket?

In 2009, Yao took 40% of his shots from mid range, and made 45% of those. Of PFs and Centers, only Dirk, McDyess, Gasol and Garnett hit a higher percentage of mid range jumpers. So despite him being taller and less mobile than his defenders and completely unable to put the ball on the court, he is going to go outside and shoot those shots? Have you thought this through? He can't run around screens to get open. He can't dribble in. He will set a screen and if they double off him, they kick to him and he hits the immediate jumper. Same as always, but he isn't going to be getting the ball out where he has to create at all.

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I don't think your an idiot I just think that from time to time your an ass and have a specific slanted bias towards your guys and against other guys, your bias against Yao is long term. and you have been owned consistently there, just like your jack ass comment that Jacoby Jones was likely to be cut! LOL!!!

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Owned on my opinion of Yao? Yeah, you can't name a single instance. I've been pretty much dead on since he was a rookie and we can see what he can do. It is you that doesn't have an actual grasp on reality on what Yao really is.

Am I an ass? Sure. Am I right? Yes. I don't dislike Yao. I've met him, and I really like him. He is a nice guy, and I am glad he is in Houston. But his value is more than what is on the court. In fact, right now, the majority of his value is OFF the court. And if Houston wants to win a title with the team they are building, capitalizing on Yao's value off court is the absolute best trade chip they have. Especially now when he is in the last season of a contract.

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Smits and Z never were never as athletic as Yao

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Smits was a lot more athletic than you think. Yao has never been quick or ultra agile. He doesn't have to be.

Bottom line is that no matter how quick Yao becomes, he is not going to be quick enough for it to matter against guys like TIm Duncan, Tyson Chandler, Pau Gasol, etc. That isn't and will never be his strength.

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That doesn't go in the stats but the truth is Yao's influecne on a game may actually improve.

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How do you account for the fact that the Rockets have played fairly well when Yao has gone down? For instance the big winning streak (I was overseas and missed it) or the Lakers series?

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The thing is Soup, you use stats when you think it is to your advantage and discount them when it is isn't. I am pretty consistent, you never see me use stats as a measure, simply because they are not a constant and there are so many other nuances that are really important that aren't conveyed through them.

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And that is also why most people immediately discount what you are saying. It is just the opinion of some old man on Texags. Anyone is free to interperate stats how they want, but at least I have some facts backing up what I say, while you are just rambling about with your VERY EXTREME biases.

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We just have to choose to disagree on Brooks, I have seen him play some really good D, even in the post

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EVERY scouting report about him will talk about how bad he is on D. ESPECIALLY in the post. I was sitting right there on the court, just a dozen feet away and watched him personally ger burned time after time.

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However your stating that a PG is not a good defensive player because he is not an elite post defender is laughable!

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Seriously, you can't be that dumb. I didn't say that. He gets DESTROYED by bigger guards [read: every other guard in the NBA] posting him up or abusing him physically. He is quick enough, but hasn't developed the skills on the perimeter and isn't strong enough to push back or keep his position.

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So Parker is good Post defender!?!

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Parker is better than Brooks. Being ~5 inches taller than him helps a lot.

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In head to head mathcups Brooks his held his own pretty well, he has schooled by some unheralded guys, he normally raises his defense when going against elite guys, That's what I am talking about when I talk about consistency and the other factor of having to be the offensive go to guy.

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Brooks can school lots of players. No doubt. He has quickness and speed and that can't be taught. But he isn't a good defensive PG in any way, shape or form.
Deron Williams last year vs Houston:
21ppg, 11apg, 5rpg, 47%/50%/91%
Steve Nash vs Houston:
18p, 14a, 4r, 48%, 50%, 95%
Tony Parker vs Houston:
21p, 9a, 1.5s, 45%, n/a, 75%
Jameer Nelson vs Houston:
16p, 7a, 4r, 1.5s, 50%, 63%, 50%
Devin Harris vs Houston:
19p, 7a, 4r, 43%, 22%, 100%
Chris Paul vs Houston:
22p, 10a, 7r, 2s, 1.5b, 44%, 20%, 79%
Brandon Jennings vs Houston
19p, 5a, 45%, 46%, 75%
Derrick Rose vs Houston:
24p, 6a, 5r, 53%, 25%, 58%
Rajon Rondo:
13p, 10a, 5r, 4s, 48%, 75%

So it is just a coincidence that all these top NBA point guards had numbers above their own averages against Houston? Brooks is still good, right?



[This message has been edited by Guitarsoup (edited 7/22/2010 4:26p).]