Pippen:
He was named one of the 50 best players in nba history at the nba's 50th anniversary, was thrice selected to the nba's all nba first team (ie top 5 players in the league), was an 8 time all defensive first teamer (four other seasons on second or third team), was the all star game mvp (the best amongst the best), and finished in the top 3 of the mvp voting once, top 5 twice, and top 10 six ****ing times. He was a 7 time all star.

In 1994, without jordan, in his prime pippen averaged 22 a game, 8.7 rebounds, 5.6 assists, and 3 steals a game

In his five best seasons he averaged 20.5 a game, 7.6 rebounds, 6 assists and 2.3 steals per game.

Dwade:
Wade has been a six time all star and two time all nba selection, and has never made an nba all defensive team. He has finished in the top 3 of the mvp vote once, when he finished 3rd in 2009, in the top 5 once, and in the top 10 three times.

Dwades best season came in 2009, when he averaged 30 a game, 5 rebounds, 7.5 assists, and 2.2 steals.

In his five best seasons he averaged 26.7, 4.9 rebounds, 6.9 assists, and 1.8 steals.

Analysis:
Wade has the advantage in points per game and averaged almost an assist per game more. However, scottie had more than 2.5 more rebounds per game, almost half a steal more, and turned the ball over one less time per game than wade.

Wade still has a few great years in him and time will tell. However, in the best season compared above, wade and pippen were actually the same age. I think the perception of pippens career was negatively impacted by the last few years when he bounced around a few teams. However, given the physical type of game dwade plays, i can easily see his career declining as rapidly, if not more.

My opinion: Give me pippen at this point.

And while we're at it give me hogrant, rodman, or the croatian sensation over chris bosh.

Pippen, as well as a few others on those teams, has long been underrated. Time has done nothing but make people think Jordan won that thing six times playing 1 on 5.

Sorry Wade takes this one easily. Pippen never won an NBA championship by himself. End of discussion.

End of discussion? Wow. What i wouldnt give to lead the simplistic, mindless life that you lead.

Dwade won a championship by himself? What about that all time great center on his team that averaged 20 and 9 in only 30 mins per game. Also, shaq was first team all nba in 2006. Dwade wasnt.

And jordan never won a championship by himself. Unless you define himself by overlooking a multiple times all nba'er who annually finished in the top 10 of nba voting and was widely considered one of the very best players in the league for almost a decade.

Look at dwades team accomplishments without shaq. They pale in comparison to what scottie did without jordan, when pipp was still in his prime.

Pip was the better all around player.

Wade.

pippen is also only guy to ever lead his team in 5 key stats for a whole season (pts, rebs, asts, blks, stls)

I don't recall Scottie doing much without Jordan except hate on poor Tony Kukoc.

Runner-up MVP? Top player on a 55-win team? Pippen was a damn good player. Easily top 10... maybe even top 5 in the 90's.

Everyone always asks 'What did Pippen do without Jordan?' but what did Jordan do without Pippen?

Jordan and Pippen and the Bulls were the perfect storm. Rarely do you get 2 legit top 5 or 10 players in the league on the same team for that period in while both are in their relative peak. Pippen's numbers, while very good, weren't incredible or even come close to telling the story of how great he really was simply because Jordan (who was inarguably the best at that time) was on his team.

However, in the small sampling of what Pippen we have while he was in his peak without Jordan, I really think you could make an argument that he was as good as D-Wade. Granted it was one full season on his own in his peak, but he was easily one of the 3 best players that season.

[This message has been edited by ATM9000 (edited 10/28/2010 8:08a).]

Pippen.

lol@Wade-end-of-discussion

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Pippen never won an NBA championship by himself. End of discussion.

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Pippen didn't have the opportunity to play the Mavericks in the Finals.

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Sorry Wade takes this one easily. Pippen never won an NBA championship by himself. End of discussion.

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LOLZ. Okay.

Pippen is head and shoulders above Wade.

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I don't recall Scottie doing much without Jordan except hate on poor Tony Kukoc.

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As I remember Jerry Krause went over to Europe, found someone that played his 2nd best (and best all-around) player's position, offered him a boatload off money, and then Scottie roasted that ass like a pig in the 1992 Olympics..... Remember the first game against Croatia?

Pippen hands down over Wade, anyday, any time. I'll even take old Pippen on that imploding Blazers team in 2000. I'll take him trashing Barkley's lazy ass on the Rockets. I'll take him in 1994. He is just a more complete player. And don't even start about the 2006 Finals

You guys make it seem like Wade is garbage. He's been arguably a top 5 player in this league for a long time. Nba finals MVP. I don't care who he played to win it but he carried that Heat team on his shoulders. Pip was a special talent but without 23 he was just a good player.

San Shaq, all Wade has been is an injury-prone player who has barely been able to put the Heat into the playoffs annually. Wade's a great player, but if anybody has had an overrated career, it's Wade.

And Pippen was just a good player? Really? So does just a good player lead his team to 55 wins and is a runner-up in MVP voting?

[This message has been edited by ATM9000 (edited 10/28/2010 1:24p).]

Wade isn't garbage. Wade is a great scorer, really good defensively, but Pippen was a better defender, rebounder, passer, and knew his role. Wade is explosive, but you know hampers most explosive guys...... injuries.

In 5 years we'll be talking about him like we did Tim Hardaway in the late 90's/early 2000's

Well if you're going to go off stats like being a "runner-up" in MVP voting then here we go:

Wades best season 30\8\5 49%
Pippens best season 22\9\6 49%

Wades career numbers 25\7\5 48%
Pippens career numbers 16\6\5 47%

Wades postseason numbers 26\6\6 48%
Pippens postseason numbers 17\8\5 44.5%

Oh yea, and I think Wade was a runner up last year for the MVP or barely got edged out by Kobe.

Career numbers are silly to compare at this point considering pips include his old man numbers. Which is why i kept it to prime years in the op.

Dwade has never finished higher than 3rd in mvp voting, which is the same as pip (and both where the same age when they did ot). And, as stated in the op, wade has finished in the top 10 of mvp votin three times compared to scotties six.

Some of the same things that people bring up about Pip can also be said about Wade.

Crazy wingspan
Great defender although nobody was better than Pip
Good rebounder for his size. Pip 4in. taller?
Great passer
Smart
Clutch
Quick as fox
Can shoot and slash

Lebron knew what he was doing when he teamed up with Wade.

At least we agree about Bosh. Way overrated. I'd take Rodman too.

[This message has been edited by qunique_2004 (edited 10/28/2010 3:17p).]

[This message has been edited by qunique_2004 (edited 10/28/2010 3:18p).]

My point in all of this is that bron bron is being absolutely lambasted for seeking out a "champ" and hitching his wagon to him, when jordan played with arguably more talent his entire championship winning run. The difference between the two is that the 80s bulls had competent management that brought in other talented pieces, whereas bron had to seek out his pippen on his own.

Not close. Lebron is not even close to Jordan, and thanks to him joining up with Bosh and Wade (who is by the way, the leader of that team and will continue to be) he will never be able to say he carried his team to a championship.

Wade (with a ref assist) singlehandedly guided his team through the '06 playoffs and took the chamionship and finals MVP. Sure Shaq was there, but not the same Shaq as we saw in LA when he was the best center in the league bar none. Not even close to that Shaq. Wade's numbers would be much better IMO had he not been hampered by so many injuries, even with them he has been a perenial all-star.

Now Lebron is playing with Wade and Bosh, both guys who have been allstars every year for years now, and not looking like that will change anytime soon. Jordan had Pippen, but who else on his team during the championship years was a perennial allstar?

Why would you compare them? Two very different players. PIppen is vastly underrated, Wade is a bit overrated when you consider how injury prone he has been (3 of 7 seasons missing 20+ games, 2 of 7 seasons missing 30+)

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What about that all time great center on his team that averaged 20 and 9 in only 30 mins per game. Also, shaq was first team all nba in 2006. Dwade wasnt.

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Let's look at some stats, some finals stats since this is what ultimately matters and it is the highest stage of the nba played at the highest level.

2006 NBA finals statistics

Wade Shaq
PPG 34.7 13.7
RPG 7.8 10.2
APG 3.8 2.8
SPG 2.67 0.5
BPG 1 .83

I never claimed Wade did it by himself that season, but he took over the finals and put out-of-this world numbers, not a la Scottie Pippen, but a la Michael Jordan.

Jordan's numbers in his statistically best finals series, 1992-93 against the Suns:

PPG 41
RPG 8.5
APG 6.3
SPG 1.7
BPG 0.67

Jordan's numbers were better than Wade's surely, but Wade had comparable numbers.

By comparison, Pippen's that very same finals:
PPG 21.2
RPG 9.2
APG 7.7
SPG 2
BPG 1

Furthermore, by the logic some of you use, Pippen was also a "better all around player than Jordan." However, we all know that is not true. Jordan was the clear leader of the Bulls the same way Wade was the clear leader of the Heat. Shaq was not the 2000-02 Shaq and Pippen put up way better numbers than Shaq did, so you could even say Jordan had more help than Wade.

Again, you can look at regular season stats or end of the season NBA selections, or regular season MVPs. To me, finals statistics gauge a player's greatness far better.

Now their playing styles were different and also their roles. But since Wade led his team to an NBA championship I say Wade, to me, is the better player.

two different players, but if we're drafting for a team with a jordan/lebron already there and both of these guys are in their primes, give me pippen.

Shouldn't this thread be more about who's better between Lebron and Pippen seeing as DWade is the #1 in Miami?

Pippen is underrated?!? Hell no, Pippen is overrated! That dude was lazy and lacked skills. He shouldn't even be sniffing the Top 50. I can't believe you who think he's better than Wade, he may not be better than Otis Thorpe!

Did y'all even watch basketball in the 80s/90s?

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Pippen is overrated! That dude was lazy and lacked skills.

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troll, troll, troll your boat