At the time of the trade and even a couple years after?

I admit I thought the trade was bad especially after those first round exits.

I thought it was bad. Still not sure it was good

Harris may or may not have gotten the Mavs to the WCF. Im sure he is quicker and able to penetrate.

It's been 4 seasons. Kidd was supposed to be completely worthless by now and the Mavs were supposed to be trapped in salary cap hell. But Harris and a prospect were just traded for Deron Williams. And maybe no one was beating the Lakers the past 3 years. Who knows

We will never know if Harris could have developed into a good point guard...he did become a great scorer. I personally think continuing to play with Dirk would have made him develop that part of his game, but we will never know.

I wasn't thrilled at the time. I thought at best it was a zero-sum gain, with what you gained from Kidd's experience was equal to Harris potential.


I do understand Cuban was trying to do something to shake up the team and get it over the hump.

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Harris may or may not have gotten the Mavs to the WCF.

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He got them to the finals. What more does the dude need to have done??? It is interesting to me that everybody is so hung up on JJ Barea and the "change of pace" he brings. Devin Harris is an upgraded version of Barea. It isn't a mystery to me that the Harris Mavs got to the finals, then there was a finals drought for several years, and then after the development of Barea, all of a sudden they are on the brink again.

Couldn't be more clear to me that this team is better when there is a fast, penetrating guard on the floor. Barea's PER was higher than Kidd's this year and he scored more points despite logging 13 fewer minutes. Imagine if you had the quicker, better Devin Harris filling that role.

The Mavs were a better team with Harris, which is scary, because they are pretty dam good right now.

[This message has been edited by MassAggie97 (edited 5/23/2011 8:39a).]

i wasn't thrilled to get Kidd back, but I also wasn't upset to lose Harris

Harris at the time was probably the fastest player in the NBA end-to-end. One of those situations where you never know how it would have played out.

The thing about Harris though is that he was so inconsistent. He was great one night and lost the next. Also, don't forget that during our '06 run to the Finals (as well as the GS series in '07) that Jet got a lot of minutes at the point when Stackhouse was on the floor (with Josh at the 3).

It seems like Harris always was (and still is) an "unrealized potential guy". Not to re-hash bad memories, but go to basketballreference.com and check out some of the box scores from the '07 GS series. Games 2-4 Harris didn't even play more than 22 minutes in any game.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200704270GSW.html

I did not hate the trade. The only thing I didn't like is that Cuban refused to sign Nash because of the "age X money X contract length" equation, and then he turned right around and did for Kidd what he refused to do for Nash.

I don't blame Cuban for Nash. Nash was a great player, but not worth what Nash was wanting and Phoenix was going to offer.

The Kidd trade made me somewhat queasy, but Harris was a 4th year guy at the time that had also played 3 years of Big 10 basketball (not some one and done guy), yet he was still maddeningly inconsistent. He'd proven to be a good weapon in certain matchups, but there were still a ton of questions as to whether he'd ever make that next step to being reliable enough full-time. He was also prone to getting dinged up, and you can still pretty much count on him to miss at least a dozen games somewhere along the way.

[This message has been edited by Danny Duberstein (edited 5/23/2011 11:03a).]

Wasn't a huge fan of the trade at the time, but Kidd's leadership and timely defense are a couple of the main reasons Dallas is still playing.

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Couldn't be more clear to me that this team is better when there is a fast, penetrating guard on the floor.

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I can't really disagree, but let's also not pretend that Devin Harris we saw in the SA series was the Devin Harris that we saw full-time. So that leaves a question of whether Dallas is better with Kidd + Poor Man's Devin Harris or just Devin Harris himself. Ideally, maybe they could have landed a veteran PG to lean on when Harris was off, and done so for less cost, but who knows.

Also, not that the Nets situation was his fault, but I would like to see Harris have some extended success on a decent team before my regrets rise too far. On crap teams, somebody's still gotta get the #'s. He seems to have progressed, but I do question just how far.

[This message has been edited by Danny Duberstein (edited 5/23/2011 11:15a).]

J-Kidd's line in Game 3:

37 Minutes
40% FG 40% 3PT
6 RB
8 AST
4 STL
13 PTs
only 2 turnovers (4:1 AST->TO)

pretty solid if you ask me

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Nash was a great player, but not worth what Nash was wanting and Phoenix was going to offer.

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This.

I realize from the thread title that we're talking about 20/20 hindsight, but at the time of Nash's departure, I don't know that ANYONE in Dallas thought he would still be performing worth a crap at the end of that contract. What was it, a 5-year deal IIRC?

My roommate and I were placing bets at the time on when his first season-ending back spasm was going to strike. I don't know what the dude did to keep himself in such great shape for that long, but my hat's off to him for actually giving Phoenix their money's worth.

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Cuban wanted to build his franchise around the younger Nowitzki and did not want to risk signing the 30-year-old Nash to a long-term deal, and offered Nash a four-year deal worth about $9 million annually, with a fifth year partially guaranteed. The Phoenix Suns on the other hand offered the point guard a six-year, $63 million contract. Nash was reluctant to leave Dallas and returned to Cuban to see if he would match the deal; Cuban did not, and Nash signed for the Suns for the 2004–05 season.

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I did not want Cuban to guarantee a 30 year old Nash 6 years and $68MM either. Cuban justified his decision (correctly) by saying that they didn't want to tie up the money in an aging point guard.

Then 3 seasons later, he traded youth to NJ for a 35 year old Kidd, who they then resigned in 2009 for 3 more years through age 40 for Kidd. And I think Kidd is getting $25MM for those 3 years or something.

I like Kidd, and obviously, the decisions have worked out because Kidd has been absolutely integral to the Mavs resurgence and success.

I just remember thinking it was weird of Cuban to make a pledge to youth and lambast Nash's age when he then turned around a couple of years later and traded all that youth for an older PG than Nash in the first place.

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I just remember thinking it was weird of Cuban to make a pledge to youth and lambast Nash's age when he then turned around a couple of years later and traded all that youth for an older PG than Nash in the first place.

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This is all from memory based on reading/radio, but didn't Cuban ask Nash to give up playing in the off season and Nash didn't want to? The wear and tear of an older guy all year was a very big concern.

I believe Nash did end up giving up playing in the summer for the Canadian team when he went to Phoenix, but apparently didn't tell Cuban he would.

And if Cuban would have seen how Nash held up, he may have made a different decision.

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And if Cuban would have seen how Nash held up, he may have made a different decision.

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I think this is what happened. I think neglecting to pony up because he was worried about age and then watching Nash win 2 MVP's made him reconsider his approach on the old guys.

Don't forget that Kidd is better defensively right now than Nash was at any point in his entire career.

Remind me of how Devin Harris's teams have done recently. Kidd is an absolute upgrade at every aspect of the game other than in quickness/speed.

Harris also had way less around him than Kidd over the last few years so comparing their results is kind of silly, especially considering Harris helped get the Mavs to the finals a few years ago.

I thought it was a gutsy and very risky trade at the time, and ultimately I think the goal was to get proven leadership and mental toughness. Getting rid of Dampier would have been my first priority and I wish he would have gone with Harris in hindsight.

I will freely admit that at the time I very much questioned the move.

There is no way this thread makes it to page 2 without guitarsoup berating someone....

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And if Cuban would have seen how Nash held up, he may have made a different decision.

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Fair point.

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Remind me of how Devin Harris's teams have done recently. Kidd is an absolute upgrade at every aspect of the game other than in quickness/speed.

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Considering he landed on Jason Kidd's ****ty Nets team, and then got traded to a Utah team in complete transition, this argument isn't entirely convincing.

I hated the trade from the start. If you remember, the Mavs were probably the best team in NBA at the time of trade. They had a couple of guys miss a few games with injuries and had minor skid. The Lakers were about the 3rd best team in Western Conference. Then they stole Gasol and the Mavericks panicked. Instead of holding pat, they flinched and made trade.

If we knew that Harris was still a so-so point guard after three years? Then it's a great trade for Mavericks. The speed and development of Barea has helped ease the pain. He can't bring the defense, but can certainly carve up a slow team.

My only caveat at the time was a title. I thought the pre-trade Mavericks were title contender. They were definately in the conversation. I said that if Mavericks could get title within 2.5 seasons then it was worth it. I figured that's how much that Kidd had left in the tank.

You can never say that Cuban and Nelson don't try. Half the NBA front offices just shuffle along and don't make effort to win titles. Cuban is willing to throw the dice and spend money to win.

Just the facts, we've been a great team with Kidd, getting his experience and talent while having a very quick guard in Barea now.

Re: Nash, the above posters have it right. Kidd was playing in te offseason for Canada, started wearing out during the Mavs' seasons, wanted more than what Cuban was willing to risk, stopped playing so much in the offseason when he went to Phoenix, and had an excellent career. I'd also add that Nash played the media up to make Cuban look like he screwed Nash, and at the time I was fed up with Nash although worried about what would happen.