Any chance Dirk's playoff performance helps the Mavs in their search for the next superstar?

I hate to get my hopes up at all, but Dallas being mentioned as a potential home for superstars and then not happening makes me wonder if Dirk is helping the chances for the big free agents that will come up in the next couple of years.

If they can win a title and shake the "soft" moniker for good, it will go a lot further than just Dirk's individual performance to add to the allure of playing in Dallas.

After shelling out to re-sign Chandler this summer they won't have any room left to sign another star player. They'll also probably need to come close to givig Barea mid-level exception-type money.

I think they'll be great just re-signing everyone and getting Caron Butler back.

Who is available?

By the way, I'm talking about sign and trades and Dallas being a destination for players with expiring deals or that want to be traded. I do not think Dallas will be in a position to outright sign any max-level guys for quite some time.

The name to keep an eye on is Deron Williams...while he's had a decent playoff push, Kidd is on his last legs. Williams is from the Metroplex and has mentioned that Dallas would be a place he'd like to play. Dirk and Williams on a pick and roll...yikes.

Yeah, Derron has been name 1b to Chris Paul's 1a among the Dallas media types before this playoff run. I think he'd be a great fit here.

Doubtful it helps with the big names.

The Spurs winning four championships never helped in getting a big name free agents.

It can be a big deciding factor with the older veterans and mid-level players, though.

The Spurs comparison doesn't make much sense. Dallas is a much bigger market than San Antonio, and Cubes is a players-owner who's willing to sell out monetarily to put at least a semi-successful product on the court.

Now, all that considered do I think the Mavericks will land the CP3s, Deron's, and Howards in the coming years?

No.

Trade Haywood and Barea to free up cash and sign effin D- Williams.

[This message has been edited by ethio_aggie (edited 5/26/2011 4:51p).]

@Judge

The Spurs did get Richard Jefferson. He was a super star before he joined the team.

I'm not saying San Antonio is a bad destination, or that Dallas is clearly better. The Spurs have the championship pedigree that the Mavs franchise doesn't have.

Seems like most of the stars these days want to be in the bigger media markets. Dallas isn't LA or NY, but it's up there.

If I was Richard Jefferson 3 years ago and I was stuck in the career-ending pit that is the Bucks franchise, I'd be chomping at the bit to go to SA.

[This message has been edited by Judge (edited 5/26/2011 5:00p).]

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The Spurs did get Richard Jefferson. He was a super star before he joined the team.

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Richard Jefferson was never a superstar and the Spurs acquired him through a trade.

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The Spurs comparison doesn't make much sense.

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Sure it does. Local endorsements mean squat. And being in Dallas doesn't raise your national acclaim. That is pretty much reserved to the media-loved cities. LA, NY, Boston, Chicago and Miami. Dallas may be slightly better than SA, but having 4 titles over the course of a decade would certainly negate a few more local ads.

I just disagree with your opinion then. I think Dallas would be in the tier with Chicago and Miami, right below the LA/NY tier. That's not to say that Dallas is as "glamorous" as Miami, Chicago. Celebrity status in those cities means something much different. But Dallas is not a small market.

I already mentioned the Spurs championships as an attraction that Dallas doesn't have. But if you think a "few extra local adds" are the only difference between Dallas and SA, that's a serious underestimation. A quick trip to http://espn.go.com/dallas/ proves that point.

[This message has been edited by Judge (edited 5/26/2011 5:20p).]

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I already mentioned the Spurs championships as an attraction that Dallas doesn't have. But if you think a "few extra local adds" are the only difference between Dallas and SA, that's a serious underestimation. A quick trip to http://espn.go.com/dallas/ proves that point.

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It really doesn't. ESPN has ESPN Dallas for the Dallas Metro area as a way to get more ads from that area.

But there isn't the "Dallas Media Bias" like we see the East Coast media Bias in so many other things. Dallas simply isn't among the absolute premium places to play and all three Texas teams fight that. Football is the exception to that rule because the Cowboys are one of the premier franchises to play for in the NFL.

The Mavs, Rockets and Spurs will never get the same amount of buzz that the Knicks, Heat, Celtics and Lakers do, even if they have the same level of success. The players of all three teams will have a lower profile nationally and internationally than they would if they went to one of those larger markets. (Yao is the obvious outlier being that all of China and Chinese-Americans backed him.)

DFW is a huge market, but outside of that market, virtually no one cares about the Mavs.

I have a pretty good understanding of the national sports media machine, considering that I make my living off it.

Good to see you're opinionated on the subject, but that was a lot of refutation of stuff I wasn't implying. Not going to get sucked into an argument I wasn't trying to make.

All I said was that Dallas is one of the larger media markets. The fact that nobody outside of Dallas cares about the Mavericks (something I don't think is true to the extent you do) doesn't mean that Dallas is a small market. Sure, America's Team is the main engine of the Dallas market, but all of the Dallas teams benefit from that.

Again, I never said the Mavericks were on the level of the Lakers and Celtics.

I listen to ESPN radio daily (the national broadcast), whenever they talk about free agents and the biggest markets in sports, Dallas is actually included WITH NY and LA, which is more bullish than anything I've said. I'd take their opinion over some photographer who operates out of Houston, if you want to pull the profession card.

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Dallas may be slightly better than SA

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Wow, talk about losing credibility quickly.

Not surprising coming from GS. I'm sure agents just hate suggesting Dallas with it's market. Stars only care about what ESPN says and not about money.

Miami is a smaller market than Dallas and the stars make the market there not the other way around.

Got any more pretentious comments because I'd take your word on those given your history.

We need a legitimate slashing shooting guard this summer.

Judge - the Mavs have won 50 games a year for a decade now and have been a legit contender for about 8 years. What big free agents have they gotten? Dampier?

Your ESPN guys aren't saying anything different than I am saying here.

The Mavs are always players because Cuban makes them players. He will spend what it takes. But the big moves Dallas always makes are trades. They really haven't been a destination for free agents, even despite the sales tax benefit.

Traded for:
Kidd
Marion
Chandler
Nash
Finley
Dirk
Van Exel
LaFrenz
Jamison
Walker
Terry
Stackhouse
Van Horn
Armstrong
Antoine Wright
Roddy B
Caron Butler
Brenden Haywood
DeShawn Stevenson

Signed or S&T:
Dampier
Devean George
Diop
Griffin
Doug Christie
JJ Barea (undrafted free agent)
Marquis Daniels (undrafted free agent)
Brandon Bass (league min)


Drafted
Howard
Harris


So you can go on whatever you want, but the Mavericks have not been a premium destination for free agents. I don't think that is going to change. They are always in the 'talk' and some of the hometown kids say they want to play at home (allegedly) but the Texas teams just have proven to not be a premium destination for free agents despite money, championships, winning consistently and no state income tax. Erick Dampier is the biggest profile free agent the Mavericks have signed in the past decade, and when they have him the 5y50mm contract, everyone was saying Cuban vastly overpaid and bidding against himself for a guy that only played good in contract years.

[This message has been edited by Guitarsoup (edited 5/26/2011 10:44p).]

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Miami is a smaller market than Dallas and the stars make the market there not the other way around.

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Miami is a high profile city more than a big market. It isn't about the number of TVs there, it is about the celebrity. Miami is a high profile city because so many stars live there. What does Dallas have to compete with that?

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He will spend what it takes. But the big moves Dallas always makes are trades. They really haven't been a destination for free agents, even despite the sales tax benefit.

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You know how the salary cap works right? With Dallas always above the cap, trading is basically the only move to be made.


That literally has nothing to do with the size of Dallas market.

Saying Dirk and Roddy B were acquired via "trade" is kind of simple-minded, considering the league's stupid draft day trade rules.

Yes, if you want to be technical, Dallas didn't draft those two players, but they were acquired on the day of their respective drafts. It's like saying the Cowboys didn't draft Dez Bryant because they acquired his draft pick on the day of the draft.

Thank you for making my point. Cuban has had the opportunity to make moves to get under the cap. He chose to take on the salary side of trades in the hopes of acquiring more talent to get a big player. But Cuban has never been able to lure the top tier free agents to Dallas, even though a Sign N Trade. They have the right to say where they want to go in that, but the Mavs can't get it done. None of the Texas teams can.

But here is the bigger issue - what big MLE free agents have signed with Dallas? Dallas doesn't even get those guys. They got a half season of possibly the dumbest PF in NBA history and Diop.

None of the Texas teams are big on FA wish lists.

[This message has been edited by Guitarsoup (edited 5/26/2011 11:10p).]

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Saying Dirk and Roddy B were acquired via "trade" is kind of simple-minded, considering the league's stupid draft day trade rules.

Yes, if you want to be technical, Dallas didn't draft those two players, but they were acquired on the day of their respective drafts. It's like saying the Cowboys didn't draft Dez Bryant because they acquired his draft pick on the day of the draft.

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However you want to classify it, they weren't acquired as open market free agents, which is kinda the point of the discussion here.

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Thank you for making my point. Cuban has had the opportunity to make moves to get under the cap. He chose to take on the salary side of trades in the hopes of acquiring more talent to get a big player.

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Through a sign and trade. Which would still be considered a trade. So your point about landing no stars via free agency has no real meaning behind it.

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None of the Texas teams are big on FA wish lists.

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Dwight Howard named Dallas as one of his preferred destinations.


I seriously don't know why you're going off on a giant tangent about stuff I really don't care about. You can answer my simple question - do you think Dallas is a large market, or a small market? I think Dallas is a large market, in a tier below LA and NY.

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Through a sign and trade. Which would still be considered a trade. So your point about landing no stars via free agency has no real meaning behind it

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Who has Dallas gotten through a sign&trade in the last decade? I listed Dampier on the list of free agents OR S&T acquisitions.

Dallas has not been able to get free agents through S&T, which has been their best bet.

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Dwight Howard named Dallas as one of his preferred destinations.

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Cool. What do you think the chances he will play in Dallas and not for the Lakers?

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You can answer my simple question - do you think Dallas is a large market, or a small market? I think Dallas is a large market, in a tier below LA and NY.

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Dallas is a large TV Market (top 5), but it is not a premier free agent destination and Dirk's absolutely amazing playoff run this year will not change that, which is what this thread is about. And a decade of history backs that up as Dallas has been completely unable to lure big name free agents through S&T and has been unable to lure the biggest names on the MLE level to sign there. Do you really think that is going to change this year?

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Dallas has not been able to get free agents through S&T, which has been their best bet.

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Probably because it's much harder to do. The right contracts have to fit together, especially for a team over the cap.

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Dallas is a large TV Market (top 5) but it is not a premier free agent destination and Dirk's absolutely amazing playoff run this year will not change that, which is what this thread is about.

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Actually, the thread was about Dirk's impact on free agent acquisition, but as usual you tried to make it about San Antonio. If you read my first couple of posts here, I very flatly said that the comparison doesn't make any sense because one team has the large market and the spend-happy owner (Dallas), while the other team has the championships (SA). That's when you tried to tell me that Dallas isn't a big market, which I disagree with.

SA's impact on the free agent market has nothing to do with Dallas' impact on the free agent market. I never said that because Dallas has a larger market that we're automatically a dream-destination and we should be guaranteed free agents in the future.

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Do you really think that is going to change this year?

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I answered that in my very first reply in this thread. Go back and read it for yourself.

[This message has been edited by Judge (edited 5/26/2011 11:26p).]

I think we have A CHANCE at Daron Williams and/or Dwight Howard. While Howard is as long a long shot as there is, we are on his "list" of 4 teams (NY, NJ, LA, Dallas, if he doesn't stay in Orlando). Dirk has proved that he's not slowing down and his style should keep him at this level for at least 3 more years, hopefully more if we're lucky and we have an owner that, despite crappy draft picks and no ability to sign free agents, has been able to stay competitive (11 straight years of 50 wins). I don't think there's much of a chance we can get either, but there is a chance.

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But here is the bigger issue - what big MLE free agents have signed with Dallas? Dallas doesn't even get those guys. They got a half season of possibly the dumbest PF in NBA history and Diop.

None of the Texas teams are big on FA wish lists.

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I wouldn't exactly call him a big name, but there were several teams going after Corey Brewer after the Knicks bought him out. Mavs, Spurs, & Celtics were going hard after him. He could have signed anywhere and he did pick Dallas.

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Dirk has proved that he's not slowing down and his style should keep him at this level for at least 3 more years

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This is the negative with LA, SA and Dallas. Kobe, Dirk and Tim are all on the wrong side of 1100 games. Dirk turns 33 next week. He may very well be able to keep this up for 2-3 more years. I dont think any of us thought Nash would still be producing as well as he has through the end of his contract. But as a young guy that is 25ish, do you want to sign up for 2-3 years of the end of Dirk's prime or find something else?

I think it all comes down to priorities. Like the Knicks campaign for Bron said, a superstar there could possibly net a billion dollars by playing in NYC. I bet something similar goes for LA. If you are going for prestige, those cities are the places to go.

If you want long term winning - you have to look at the young talent. Dirk/Terry/Marion/Chandler/Kidd aren't exactly young. Same goes for Boston, LA and SA.

If I am Howard, and I want a team with the greatest shot to win every year for the next decade, I am probably looking at OKC and joining Durant, Harden, Westbrook, Perkins, Thabo and Ibaka. But that would make too much sense and would never happen.

If you want get nit picky...

The Mavs signed Dirk, Haywood, and Peja as free agents this year.

They ACQUIRED Peja and Brewer as free agents this year. They resigned/signed extensions with Dirk and Haywood, players they had previously acquired through trades, not through free agency or through a sign and trade.

They didn't sign an extension with Dirk. He was an unrestricted free agent and signed a brand new contract.

They still didn't acquire him. They resigned him with their bird rights.