Look at their stats in finals

Game 1
Dirk: 27 PTS, 8 REB, 2 AST, 0 BLK, 2 TO
LeBron: 24 PTS, 9 REB, 5 AST, 0 BLK, 1 TO

Game 2
Dirk: 24 PTS, 11 REB, 4 AST, 1 BLK, 5 TO
LeBron: 20 PTS, 8 REB, AST 4, 1 BLK, 5 TO

Game 3
Dirk: 34 PTS, 11 REB, 3 AST, 3 BLK, 3 TO
LeBron: 17 PTS, 3 REB, 9 AST , 0 BLK, 4 TO

Game 4
Dirk: 21 PTS, 11 REB, 2 AST, 0 BLK, 3 TO
LeBron: 8 PTS, 9 REB, 7 AST , 0 BLK, 4 TO

Now I'm not saying Dirk is by far the better player, but I think he has the edge. JVG is always saying LeBron is the best player in the world, but if someone who never watched basketball before watched the finals, they would not pick LeBron as the best player.

Lebron can only guard small guards. Dude was getting burned by Marion the whole night.

Dirk is having the better playoff run, but no GM would take him over Lebron.

NBA.com has a page that tracks combined PTS+REB+AST

Before tonight Lebron and Dirk were virtually tied at 39.1/39.0 combined PTS+REB+AST for the entire playoffs. Back when Bill Simmons wrote regularly about the NBA he tracked this stat and set the bar at 42.0 as the minimum line for pantheon level playoffs performances. In this series there has just not been many points to go around.

[This message has been edited by InternetFan02 (edited 6/7/2011 11:37p).]

But LeBron can make these amazing dunks.

Also Dirk doesn't ditch his team when they don't win and go join up with the better players. He stays loyal to his team, puts them on his back and carries them to the finals.

LeBron ditches the city he's from and the team that drafted him and lets Wade carry him to the finals.

Can we somehow also transform this thread into a LBJ vs. MJ discussion as well?

Lebron is being a facilitator. Dirk is forced to be the man, Lebron has a cast to help him.

Dirk has never abandoned his team in the playoffs like Dirk did last year...

I take it you're still working at the first place that hired you wagner?

"The only place Dirk took his talents to was the damn gym - every day."

The Facilitator

quote:

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RT @ZachLowe_SI: LeBron did not touch the ball on 8 of Miami's 20 half-court trips in the 4th quarter.

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[This message has been edited by InternetFan02 (edited 6/8/2011 12:03a).]

Dirk is not a better player than Lebron. He is playing better offense in the finals than Lebron, though.

Overall, Dirk is not a better player.


This year's playoffs, Dirk is a better player. Dirk is certainly more clutch in the 4th quarter.

Obviously, LeBron is better.

But, Dirk has been better in this year's playoffs period. And LeBron hasn't even been that great on defense this series. He hasn't exactly shut down Terry. Meantime, Dirk has been grabbing some crucial boards on the defensive end, besides being the clutch go-to-guy at the offensive end.

LeBron only has 9 pts total in the 4th quarter through 4 games. Dirk has had 44.



[This message has been edited by Aston04 (edited 6/8/2011 8:25a).]

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Obviously, LeBron is better.

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How is this Obvious?

LeBron isn't even the best player on his own team.

Wade is better than Dirk.

LeBron has more potential, but isn't showing it.

if lebron and dirk had switched teams, what would be the score of this series right now?

The series would be over.

If Dirk and LeBron switched teams the Heat would have swept the Mavs in epic fashion.

LeBron, as bad as he has played lately, had better efficiency playoff ratings than Dirk, even just considering this year's playoffs.

Dirk 2011 playoffs = 28/8/2.6/26.74 eff
Lebron 2011 playoffs = 24/8.5/5.6/27.05 eff
Wade 2011 playoffs = 25/7.4/4.1/25.37 eff

(And the career numbers aren't close. Lebron has significantly better numbers).






[This message has been edited by Whistling For Flies (edited 6/8/2011 3:07p).]

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Texas A&M11:33p, yesterday
Dirk is having the better playoff run, but no GM would take him over Lebron.

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In these playoffs? 90%+ of GMs would take Dirk's performance in these Finals over Lebron. The other 10% are dumbasses.

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LeBron, as bad as he has played lately, had better efficiency playoff ratings than Dirk, even just considering this year's playoffs.

Dirk 2011 playoffs = 28/8/2.6/26.74 eff
Lebron 2011 playoffs = 24/8.5/5.6/27.05 eff
Wade 2011 playoffs = 25/7.4/4.1/25.37 eff

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I don't care what he numbers say. If someone says Lebron has had a better playoff run this year than Dirk, they are smoking crack. Dirk has put an entire franchise on it's back and led it to a 2-2 tie in the finals. Lebron can't even come close to saying that.

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(And the career numbers aren't close. Lebron has significantly better numbers).

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I think this is a different discussion because the teams Lebron were on with Cleveland were completely dependent upon him. He had to have insane numbers for them to have any success.

And the GM's taking Lebron is yet a different argument.

I would agree that most would. However, you need to consider age; Lebron is much younger. Lebron is much more athletic and plays the game is a much 'prettier' manner. He also puts up numbers.

I think if you are talking about a 26 year old Dirk and a 26 year old Lebron, I think most would still take Lebron, but I don't think it's the overwhelming majority as you suggest.

exactly, is the question:

- who would you take in these Finals?
- who would you take if you were building a team today?
- who would you take if both players were the same age and you were building a team?

1) Dirk, hands down
2) Lebron, hands down
3) Lebron, but close and dependent on what your team needs

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How is this Obvious?

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2011 Season
MVP voting-Lebron
PPG-Lebron
APG-Lebron
RPG-Lebron
SPG-Lebron
BPG-Dirk

Lebron was 3 assists and 2.5 rebounds per game away from averaging a triple double for the season...let that sink in, for the entire regular season and still had more ppg than Dirk (top 5 in the league actually.)

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I don't care what he numbers say. If someone says Lebron has had a better playoff run this year than Dirk, they are smoking crack

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As far as Dirk "magical" playoff run:

2011 Playoffs
PPG-Dirk
APG-Lebron
RPG-Lebron
SPG-Lebron
BPG-Dirk

So even on this "unprecedented" run Dirk's having in the playoffs, Lebron still leads in APG, RPG, and SPG. And I love the caveat about "not care about the numbers" but w/ the series tied 2-2, i'm not sure you can look at anything else by the numbers at this point.

ok, first you say:

quote:

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Dirk has put an entire franchise on it's back and led it to a 2-2 tie in the finals. Lebron can't even come close to saying that.

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Then you say:

quote:

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I think this is a different discussion because the teams Lebron were on with Cleveland were completely dependent upon him. He had to have insane numbers for them to have any success.

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You can't discount Lebron's numbers because they "were completely dependent on him" then in the same breathe give credit to Dirk and his stats because he put an entire franchise on his back. I'm pretty sure Lebron lead the cavs, w/ significanlty less talent on the team than the mavs have, to the NBA finals as well. Seems a bit 2-faced.

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Lebron was 3 assists and 2.5 rebounds per game away from averaging a triple double for the season...let that sink in, for the entire regular season and still had more ppg than Dirk (top 5 in the league actually.)

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Okay, it's sunk in. 3 assists and 2.5 rebounds isn't close enough to a triple-double to make any kind of a point.

Guys, if Dirk had 3 more rebounds, 8 more assists, 9.5 more blocks and steals, he's averaging a quintuple-double. Let that sink in.

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So even on this "unprecedented" run Dirk's having in the playoffs, Lebron still leads in APG, RPG, and SPG. And I love the caveat about "not care about the numbers" but w/ the series tied 2-2, i'm not sure you can look at anything else by the numbers at this point.

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Why? Just looking at numbers is what you do when you can't interpret what you're seeing on the court, and how it translates to those numbers. I'll take the guy who, when the game is on the line, shows up and accepts the challenge instead of shying away from it.

Lebron is still the most talented player in the world. But he's missing some key components that would truly make him transcendent.

[This message has been edited by Judge (edited 6/9/2011 11:58a).]

Dirk>Lebron>Wade>Bosh>Chandler, Terry, Marion, Kidd>the rest of the Heat

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Okay, it's sunk in. 3 assists and 2.5 rebounds isn't close enough to a triple-double to make any kind of a point.

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Closer than anyone else in the entire NBA, especially Dirk, but I see your point.

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Guys, if Dirk had 3 more rebounds, 8 more assists, 9.5 more blocks and steals, he's averaging a quintuple-double. Let that sink in.

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Typical...I should've known you'd be an a**hole.

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Why? Just looking at numbers is what you do when you can't interpret what you're seeing on the court, and how it translates to those numbers. I'll take the guy who, when the game is on the line, shows up and accepts the challenge instead of shying away from it.

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What's i'm seeing on the court is 2 teams tied at 2 games a piece. Not sure why that gives Dirk teh advantage...last time I checked 2-2 is an even series.

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Lebron is still the most talented player in the world. PERIOD.

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FIFY

Lebron>Wade>Dirk>Bosh>Terry>Kidd>Marion>Chandler> the rest.

Thats how it is.

If you are talking about just the past 4 games, then:

Wade>Dirk>Lebron>Bosh>Marion>Terry>Chandler>Anthony>Kidd>Chalmers/Stevenson


[This message has been edited by claym711 (edited 6/9/2011 1:22p).]

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Lebron>Wade>Dirk>Bosh>Terry>Kidd>Marion>Chandler> the rest.

Thats how it is.

If you are talking about just the past 4 games, then
Wade>Dirk>Lebron>Bosh>Marion>Terry>Chandler>Kidd

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+1

History judges the great ones by how they do in the playoffs and in this finals Lebron has failed big time.

[This message has been edited by iceman08 (edited 6/9/2011 11:42p).]

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http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nba/columns/story?columnist=macmahon_tim&id=6647320&campaign=rss&source=DALLASHeadlines

In the final five minutes with the score within five points, Nowitzki has scored 26 points in these Finals, hitting eight of 12 shots from the floor. That's double what Wade and James have combined to produce, with James contributing a grand total of zero points to the cause.

No wonder the Mavs have outscored the Heat by 15 points in those situations, which explains why the less talented team is the squad with a chance to pop champagne bottles Sunday night.

Maybe Mavs coach Rick Carlisle wasn't crazy when he declared that Nowitzki was one of the top 10 players in NBA history.

A pair of possessions late in the fourth quarter provided a perfect illustration of the difference between the men who shoulder the biggest loads in the first five games of the Finals.

James, the most feared physical specimen in the NBA, settled for a midrange jumper despite a four-inch, 50-pound advantage over defender Jason Kidd. Clank.

Nowitzki, who was long ago slapped with the silly, stereotypical label as a soft Euro, raced down the floor and attacked the basket when he got the rock in transition. He put the ball on the floor with his wounded left hand, blew by Chris Bosh on the baseline and finished with an awkward but effective two-hand slam that gave the Mavericks the lead for good with 2:45 remaining.

That was the third time this series Nowitzki scored a critical bucket by driving hard to the rim. That's pretty impressive for a man whose path to the Hall of Fame has been paved with a ridiculous array of rainbow jumpers.

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[This message has been edited by InternetFan02 (edited 6/10/2011 3:36a).]

Dirk is +44 when on the floor in this series and the Mavs are -40 when he's on the bench. He is far and away the MVP of the leagues best team. He isn't the most athletic player, not even close, but he is easily the most valuable.