Has this been discussed already? If spurs end up beating Miami to win the title, who would win this matchup?

I think its a toss up. 2011 Mavs had incredible defense, toughness with Tyson, Marion and D-steve and a superstar on fire in Dirk.

2012 Spurs are deeper, play better team ball than 2011 mavs, and obviously are on a roll with 20 straight wins.

It goes to game 7 and the final shot i think.

Not really sure, but I'd think to give the edge to the Spurs. They'd have a bunch of people to throw at Dirk. The interesting thing would be having Tyson inside and good wing defenders in Marion and Stevenson.

Spurs in four, and it's not even close.

rasher, spurs can throw a lot at dirk, but dirk was on a legendary run last year. some of those shots he made last year were just jaw dropping. game 4 comeback against OKC comes to mind, Game 2 vs LA, Game 2 vs Mia.

Tony Parker is playing lights out for the spurs right now also, and d-steve or marion wouldnt be able to guard him.

I think Mavs in 7 on a last second dirk shot..

We will know more after they beat the Heat.... esp if Bosh is healthy.

OKC didn't have the right kind of defender to throw at Dirk. The Spurs have two of them.

Once you limit Dirk's touches, what's left?

IMO last year's Mavs were fairly one-dimensional. That is to say, if somebody had come up with a game plan to successfully limit Dirk, the Mavs would have been fairly average (not that it would have been an easy task, by any stretch). The 2012 Spurs usually have at least 3 (and frequently 4) guys who can create shots on the floor.

2012 Tony Parker would use 2011 Jason Kidd like a rented mule. Ginobili would probably be limited by Stevenson, but then who's guarding Steven Jackson? If you are committing Chandler to Duncan, who's trailing Splitter on those pick-and-rolls?

I don't know. It is all academic. Lets see how the rest of the playoffs turn out. If the Spurs go 6-2 the rest of the way, I think it is safe to say they are the better team. If they barely eek it out, we can talk. If they don't win a trophy then it is pretty obvious.

[This message has been edited by MassAggie97 (edited 5/30/2012 1:21p).]

Dirk was on a great run last year.

But the Spurs are on one of the all-time best runs of any team ever. No other team has carried a 20-game win streak from regular season into the playoffs. If the Spurs do win the two in OKC (which would be no small feat,) they will have tied their own record for most playoff games won in a row.

The Spurs are 45-4 in the last 49 games Tony Parker has started. That is absolutely incredible. The Spurs are just on a ridiculous hot streak that may become the greatest of all time.

And if you want to talk about the matchups - what playoff matchup gave Dirk more trouble than any? Stephen Jackson in Golden State in 07. He plays for this year's Spurs. And Leonard is an even taller, longer, possibly more athletic version. (7'3 wingspan!)

[This message has been edited by Guitarsoup (edited 5/30/2012 1:24p).]

You could just rephrase this question as "Are you a Spurs fan or a Mavs fan" and get the same responses.

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The 2011 Mavs defied the odds - they were barely favored in 2 series and big underdogs in 2 series. Why would they be favored against one of the best teams ever?

It would be a great matchup because it's 2 teams that rely on smart veteran players, brilliant coaching, ball movement, and team defense. The 2011 Mavs had some of the greatest comebacks in playoffs history. They believed in each other. They made adjustments. Dirk completely dominated the 4th quarters. They limited Lebron and Wade in the 4th quarters with a calculated team defensive effort, and of course Stevenson and Terry playing mental games on Lebron. With Kidd, Stevenson, Marion and Chandler following Carlisle/Casey's defensive adjustments to handle everything. They weren't interested in celebrating anything until the mountain was fully climbed, because they had been close before.

This has been a great start to the super team era - 2 veteran teams wih 1 All-nba player winning through teamwork, superior coaching and execution.

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Bam! Couldn't have said it better myself.

Playoffs aren't over yet, but the Spurs are not a good matchup for the Mavs. Like others have said, the Spurs have two guys who are custom-built to cover Dirk. Depth in the post. Posts with range to draw Chandler out of the paint and the passing to take advantage of it.

On some objective "scale of greatness" that doesn't take matchups into account, it's pretty close. The 2012 Spurs are built to beat teams like the 2011 Mavs, so while it would be a fun series I've got to go with the completely unsurprising Spurs fan answer of Spurs in 6.

[This message has been edited by Ulrich (edited 5/30/2012 1:47p).]

Spurs sweep? That's ridiculous.

The 2007 Dirk vs 2011 Dirk isn't comparable. Dirk got better in 4 years. Jackson got worse.

When Dirk was doubled, he still made insane buckets. Every team put best defender on him and constantly doubled him. Dirk was an unstoppable monster.

The Mavs weren't one-dimensional. If you think that, you don't understand basketball or didn't watch last season.

The Spurs reputation for defense is clouding your judgment. They are great team this year, but defense isn't the reason.

I saw Jet, Kidd, Peja, Cardinal, JJ, etc make tons of outside shots. And they weren't unconscious, lots were basically set shots. Mavs ball movement was great and they had tons of wide open looks.

Mavs were able to slash with Jet and Marion. They were able to penetrate with JJ and Kidd. Offense was pretty diverse and effective against different types of teams.

Chandler protecting the rim was huge factor. It wouldn't ruin Parker or Ginobli but it would put a kink in their game.

Every single guy on the roster contributed to a playoff victory. Spurs might have been 9 man depth, but Mavs were better to the 12th spot.

Spurs are on a great run, but they're still running. Don't believe they've crossed the finish line yet. It's not a fight until the other guy hits you. Spurs dodged the first real punch of playoffs in Game 1 vs OKC.

It would be a fun series to watch.

Jackson's numbers might be down, but he loves being a Spur (he has not been happy with the teams and coaches he's had over the last few years) and takes pride in being the defensive enforcer. He's got the right mix of size, strength, quickness, knowledge, and crazy to give Nowitski a lot of trouble.

I am in no way arguing that he would shut Nowitski down, but Jax would get in his head and make him less efficient. The Mavs need Nowitski to play at a high level to be a championship caliber team, whereas the Spurs can stand to have a key player or two have an off night and still be competitive.

[This message has been edited by Ulrich (edited 5/30/2012 1:53p).]

It would be an extremely close and fun to watch series.

Just like LAC was supposed to be and just like OKC is.

quote:

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You could just rephrase this question as "Are you a Spurs fan or a Mavs fan" and get the same responses.

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Haha. This.

I challenge you to find non-mav fans that think last years team is better than this spurs team.

Spurs fan here. The 2011 Mavericks won the WCF and the NBA Finals. As of now the 2012 Spurs have won neither. There is no comparison at the moment.

I actually think it goes like this:

2012 Spurs > 2011 Spurs > 2011 Mavs.


Now, in saying that, it is better to be the 2011 Mavs and have a championship than almost a championship. This discussion can be had at the end of June.

quote:

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2012 Spurs > 2011 Spurs > 2011 Mavs

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quote:

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2012 Spurs > 2011 Spurs > 2011 Mavs

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http://www.whatifsports.com/locker/

I'm simming the games now. Dallas as lower seed, so the games go SA-SA-D-D-D-SA-SA

Game 1 99-96, Spurs
Game 2 114-97, Spurs
Game 3 96-86, Spurs
Game 4 105-98, Spurs


(good lord I could play with that website all day.)

agree really comes down to spurs fan vs mavs fan.

2011 dirk is 100x better than 2007 dirk mentally. 2007 dirk did not have his patented one legged fadeaway.

2011 dirk's fadeaway will go down as one of the most unguardable shots in NBA history.

also, to say that splitter could do a better job on dirk over ibaka is pretty crazy. 2011 dirk's run was similar to a 1994 hakeem run or a jordan run. unstoppable. and no, a rookie leonard would get eaten alive by a hall of a famer like dirk.

2012 spurs are an amazing team. while not a spurs fan, i love what they are doing to the young punks in OKC, esp westbrook. parker is back to his 2007 ffinals mvp form, hitting shots from all over. duncan is not 2005 timmy, but still playing well. biggest difference is guys like leonard, bonner, neal and splitter all givign them quality minutes every minute.

would have been great to watch.

I think it's funny that the justification for picking mavs is Dirk had a good run. If nothing else, the last two years have shown that it's won by a TEAM.

You really can't compare until the Spurs win the title this year and how they go about it.

If the Spurs sweep OKC and then dominate the finals you will have to talk about the Spurs as one of the greatest teams of all time, much less compared to the Mavericks last year.

The only thing we can do right now is compare the 2012 vs 2011 Mavericks, 2 games into the WCF. As it is right now the Spurs are the best team and it's not even close. These are playoff teams the Spurs are playing and they absolutely smoked Utah, and other than game 4 they abused LA the entire series. The Thunder have played the Spurs hard but the results are the same... nobody can beat San Antonio. Dallas had at least 3-4 playoff losses this time last year so there is no comparison right now.

But until the Spurs are holding the same trophy Dallas held last year it's impossible to say. Let's do this again if the Spurs do win it all.

Dallas won in 6, 4, 5 and 6.

right now SA is 4, 4 and ?

You are right, until SA and Miami face off, we dont know. This SA team is on an incredible run, but to say there is no comparison is not really valid.

I don't like comparing different teams from different years across different organizations. It's never really fair nor valid.

You can't even use the 2011 and 2012 Heat as a measuring stick for both teams becuase:

A. Miami has had another year to gel and get used to playing together.
B. Miami won't have a 100% healthy Bosh for the finals (or even if he is 100%, his rhythm and the way he fits in with the team will be all jacked up)


It might be easy to look at the Spurs' dominance this April & May and say they are clearly the better team, but I think (even as a Spurs fan) that's a disservice to a great Mavs team who clicked when it mattered.

It would always be nice to send teams into a time machine and match them up against past champs. But even debating this, at the end of the day, we're just a bunch of schmucks B.S.ing about things that have no chance of ever being settled.

Edit--but with all that said, if the Spurs managed to go 16-0 or 16-1 through the postseason, it's hard to argue against them as one of the greatest teams ever assembled, in any sport.

[This message has been edited by aggie_2001_2005 (edited 5/30/2012 5:55p).]

I think we should wait until the spurs win the title before saying they are beating any of the past 5 champs.

This would be a fantastic series.

I'm a Mavs fans so I'd say Mavs in 7.

And lol @ "spurs have a bunch of people to throw at Dirk."

Nobody could guard Dirk last year. NOBODY. Not like anybody can now but dude was on fire. Plus, we going to act like 2011 Dirk wasn't infinitely better than 2007 Dirk? People said the same thing about Haslem last year and he couldn't do dick against Dirk.

I don't buy that Tony Parker would've burned 2011 Kidd either. He was guarding the likes of Kobe and Westbrook very well.

[This message has been edited by TheMasterplan (edited 5/30/2012 6:59p).]

[This message has been edited by TheMasterplan (edited 5/30/2012 7:00p).]

[This message has been edited by TheMasterplan (edited 5/30/2012 7:02p).]

I mean seriously, Magic Johnson said he hadn't seen a player go on a run like Dirk did "since the Michael Jordan dayzzzz."

Good for Dirk, but this is a team game. When all is said and done, there probably won't be much of an argument for the mavs.

because miami will beat SA?

at what? hopscotch?

What a retarded discussion.