I was watching ESPN's piece on Jordan tonight and it got me to thinking......were the two Rockets championships complete flukes??? I'm born and raised in Houston, and I honestly believe Olajuwon was the last of the truly skilled, dominant centers. However, I also think that the Bulls would have had 8 in a row if Jordan didn't "retire." I also believe that James and Bryant wouldn't have a chance against the mid=90's talent that Jordan played against.

stop posting here

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stop posting here

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He won't stop until he gets the attention that he so desperately desires.

jordan's bulls got beat in the 1995 playoffs

kill yourself, OP

Yes, you're correct. Houston fans will deny it forever though.

And right on cue the '95 playoffs come up like it means anything. MJ came back really late.

[This message has been edited by TheMasterplan (edited 2/16/2013 11:26a).]

And let's forget that in the three years prior to Jordan's retirement (the Rockets' two rings) that Houston went 5-1 against Chicago.

It seems like this comes up over and over again, but the Rockets matched up well with Chicago. Chicago had ZERO answers for The Dream. Jordan is the best player of all time, but the Rockets at least had defensive stoppers to make Jordan work for it.

And because I don't want to get drawn into a tired speculative argument that never gets resolved, I will just say this. I think there is a decent chance that Chicago would have indeed beat Houston in 1994 (decent, not absolute). But in 1995, the Rockets were simply the best team - I don't think Jordan would have made the difference.

The best player does not always win. In 1995, the Rockets were without a doubt the best team in the NBA.

Bulls would've 8-peated, no doubt.

And in 95, the best team in the NBA was the Spurs. Rockets just got hot at the right time.

Maybe the Bulls would have won 8 in a row.

Or maybe Pippen grows weary of being in Jordan's shadow and goes elsewhere. Horace Grant was getting ready to leave. Maybe the Bulls end up like the Shaq-Kobe Lakers going for their 4th title and meltdown and break up and Jordan never gets 4-6.

Both scenarios are possible so you can only go with what is known. Bulls won 6 titles in 8 years.

One thing I do know, Hue Hollins made a b.s. foul call on Scottie Pippen in Game 5 at New York to put Hubert Davis at the line. Bulls should have won that game.

There's no way to know what would've happened, but I do think the Rockets were one of the least talented teams to win a title much less back to back ones.

That said to say their chamionships are tainted is BS. They played the game and beat everybody there was to beat. You start playing that game and you can say the Bulls finals over LA was tainted because Worthy was hurt. You say the Spurs short season title is tainted. You can't do that crap. It just is what it is.

The 90s Bulls were a great team in a era void of great teams (at least compared to the 80s). I wish we could've seen them play the Showtime Lakers or Bird Celtics. Most of all I'd like to have see a matchup vs the Dr. J/Moses Malone 76ers.

Jordan was the leading scorer in the playoffs in 95 and he lost to the team that the Rockets SWEPT in the Finals. Thanks for playing.

^^^^^^^

Thread over

Awful lot of butthurt on this thread.

Reeks of dallass butthurt..and to say the 95 team didnt have a lot of talent is dumb

It's VERY difficult to win 4 years in a row. Only the 82-85 Lakers and 84-87 Celtics even went to the Finals 4 years in a row (post-merger).

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and to say the 95 team didnt have a lot of talent is dumb

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You obviously don't win a title without good talent, but relative to other championship teams the roster was pretty weak. You gad the best player in the league in Dream, a largely diminished Clyde, and a solid group of very effective role players.

Give me a list of NBA champions since 1980 with less talent than the 95 Rockets (Besides the '94 Rockets of course)

Put me in the camp that the Bulls would have 8-peated if Jordan didn't get suspended for gambling.

Grant didn't leave the Bulls until after Jordan was gone and I think he may have stayed if Jordan was still there.

How hard would it be to sign players ti fill in hole to play with Michael Jordan in a team that has won 3,4,5... titles in a row? Bron hasn't exactly had a tough time recruiting people to sign for less than market value (Shane Battier, Mike Miller, etc)

What I love most about this argument: we should also go ahead and remove the Lakers, Spurs, Pistons, Celtics, Mavericks titles too-- because Jordan didn't play those seasons

Guitarsoup: Leading scorer in playoffs in 95. Can you address that?

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Guitarsoup: Leading scorer in playoffs in 95. Can you address that?

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Address it how?

Hakeem led the NBA in scoring in the playoffs in 95. 33ppg. Jordan averaged 30.

I will also say that leading the playoffs in scoring doesn't really mean much.

Durant led in 11.
Wade led in 10.
LeBron led in 09.
Kobe led in 08.
Kobe led in 07.
Gilbert Arenas led in 06.
Allen Iverson led in 05.
Dirk led in 04.
Kobe led in 03.
Tracy McGrady led in 02.

Address in terms of how one can claim the results would have been different. Jordan put up Jordan numbers, and they lost.

While very fun to needle rockets fans on this, I think any objective person would see that 8 in a row likely would not happen.

We know this because Jordan played like Jordan in 95 playoffs and they lost.

The NBA playoffs are the purest playoff format we have of the major sports. There are RARELY flukes. And if a team wins back to back titles, they have to win 30 playoff games over two seasons.

Its not the Ravens winning a few games getting an extra overtime possession on a coin flip here and there. Its not VCU shooting 3s at an aberration level. Its the 7 game series after 7 game series. If someone was better than the Rockets, they had multiple trials to prove it.

Da Bulls woulda ruined that whole clutch city thing!

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Address in terms of how one can claim the results would have been different. Jordan put up Jordan numbers, and they lost.

While very fun to needle rockets fans on this, I think any objective person would see that 8 in a row likely would not happen.

We know this because Jordan played like Jordan in 95 playoffs and they lost.

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Can e also objectively talk about how the off season would have been different in terms of where players sign and who plays with Chicago or who leaves (grant) in the two off seasons that Jordan was gone?

Why do you think Grant stays? It's well known he didn't love MJ

If he doesn't stay they probably are able to convince someone better than bill Winnington to play post with Jordan.

Are you denying that free agency would have played out differently if Jordan was there vs how it did play out?

If he doesn't stay they probably are able to convince someone better than bill Winnington to play post with Jordan.

Are you denying that free agency would have played out differently if Jordan was there vs how it did play out?

Dabulls sucked they were a one man show and when he left that got raped by the knicks

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Dabulls sucked they were a one man show and when he left that got raped by the knicks

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By raped by the knicks, do you mean lost on seven games?

Jordan played in the '95 playoffs.

The Rockets still won.

Jordan wasn't able to win because he didn't have a good surrounding cast. The next year they acquired better role players that vaulted them back to the top.

Jordan only won the 2nd 3peet because the Rockets traded away their shooters fit Barkley. Rockets would have at least 3peeted if they didn't.

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Jordan wasn't able to win because he didn't have a good surrounding cast. The next year they acquired better role players that vaulted them back to the top.

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Right. And it would have been easier to retain talent or sign/trade for new talent if the team was able to say "We want you to play a valuable role in 4-peating/5-peating" rather than "Hey, we think you would be great in teaming up with Pippen and BJ Armstrong to help rebuild the Bulls"