Hey guys, been on texags for many many years and primarily lurk. Any rate, I was watching some old videos on Jerry west, wilt, russell, etc, and came to the conclusion these guys would be nothing more than 10 minute breathers for today's players. Would love to get some good conversation going on when you all feel the NBA reached generational equilibrium.

By that I mean at what point can you say an older HOF would be the same player in today's game?

For me I think it is early 80s. I'm a life long rockets homer, but I think the likes of The Admiral, dream, magic, bird, ect. would be all stars today. Any one think it is earlier?

My view is basically:

Wilt = Ben Wallace.

Russell = What we call today a tweener. To weak and soft to play down low in today's game, to unskilled to be a large shooting sf.

Jerry west = call me when he learns to dribble with his left hand. Great shooter but not enough skill or athleticism to create his own shot.

George Mikan (sp?) = I'm kidding this one is a joke.

I can go on and on; however, would love to get some good nerdy NBA banter going.

Who is a NBA legend that could play in today's game and be the same HOFer?

Jerry West was a ****ing baller and the 3rd greatest shooting guard to ever play. A prime Jerry West would be a top 5 player in the NBA today. Beastly defender and a prolific scorer.

Lots if guys prior to the 80s could play today: Moses Malone, Dr J, Walt Frazier, Oscar Robertson, Kareem, Earl Monroe, Pete Maravich, Bill Walton and Wilt Chamberlain to name a few.

[This message has been edited by Uncle Boo Boo (edited 5/18/2013 1:21a).]

Pistol Pete would THRIVE in today's game. The play making ability of Rubio and Rondo, except he could actually shoot and score too. I would love to see him play in today's NBA. He was way ahead of his time.

Kareem, Wilt and Moses Malone would abuse the centers in today's game.

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To weak and soft to play down low in today's game

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Weak and soft are not exactly words I would use to describe Bill Russell.

Anyone with a finesse game would do well in this environment, guys like George Gervin.

Early 80s sounds about right for the generational equilibrium. But there are outliers and Bill Russell is one of them

Old footage of Bill Russell going coast to coast and jumping over a guy

First, great video of Russell. The video only reaffirms my thought - he is about 5 or 6 inches taller than anyone in the video. I imagine he wouldn't have run the length of the court, untouched, not using his offhand, dribbling in a straight line staring at the ground, and layed it up unchallenged if Timmy d was there.

Come on, he would not be a post player against dream, Ewing, Shaquille, etc. He certainly doesn't have the dribbling skills or shot of durant to be a sf. He would be a tweener.

I'm sorry but if you drop a 30 year old dirk or Garnett into 1950 they might average 60+ and be considered the absolute best ever. I think Jordan might average 80+ a game in the 50s and win the title ever year.

Secondly, if you can find a video of Jerry west using his offhand to dribble more than twice I would be surprised. He hand no left hand and maybe 1 out of 15 shots were actually challenged.

Arrest guarding Jerry west would result in jw averaging maybe 6 points a game. Heck, all you have to do is force him left and wait for the pull up jumper. He certainly was unable to finish a drive with his left hand.

These guys are undersized and vastly unskilled compared to today players.

http://youtu.be/OEzwR1a8KuA

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http://youtu.be/OEzwR1a8KuA

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Awesome footage of West. He's got better elevation than you'd expect, a fairly high release, and it's quick. His athleticism is actually not half bad. He wouldn't get near as many clear looks today, but I'm confident he could still get his shot up consisently and with such a good shot, shoot a decent percentage. Is the dribbling a little dorky? Yes but I see that as more of a sign of the times, a Hoosier's idea of how to handle the rock. If a crossover, behind the back, or between the legs move was introduced to Jerry, there's no doubt in my mind he'd master it. I have no idea if he would be a star today but I think he'd at least be a good third scorer (14-15 ppg) for a playoff team. He's got too good of a shot to not score even against the superior athletes of today's game.

Liked the coast to coast on Russel too. Not many big guys are doing that today.

I agree completely - great shot but not much else. That video proves he dribbles looking directly at the ground and never utilizes his left hand. Ever.

When he goes left a guaranteed one dribble pull up. Easy to defend.

Jerry west was 6' 2", 185 lbs
Ron artest 6' 7" 265 lbs

Artest is faster, quicker, longer, and stonger. He guards west, Jerry w. Scores maybe 10 points as a secondary option. As the primary threat, with artest guarding and team defense focused....maybe 6 points.

Sorry no left hand, slow, and predictable means you live in the d league. Jerry west is a modern day jimmer ferdete (sp).

Wilt and Bill are top 10 maybe top 5 all time, any time.

Look at the rosters back then. Every team had guys that were 6'10....
There are very few true 7 footers even in today's game. Wilt was probably the best combination of size/length and athleticism that we have seen.

Weight is a different issue. Nobody lifted weights before the late 70's and nutrition was in its infancy. Many of Those same guys with today's knowledge would dominate today in similar fashion.

Plus: I believe more than half of today's pro athletes have taken some type of steroid/ growth hormone at some point to get where they are. It's not apples to apples IMHO

West had some crazy arm measurements. I want to say his sleeve length was longer than most 6'8" guys..... That translates into getting shots off today.

The game has changed but these guys would have changed with it and competed, maybe dominated.

[This message has been edited by Bbdp (edited 5/19/2013 6:09a).]

At the 6:15 mark in that video it shows him coming close to touching tho top part of the square. I believe that is 11'-5". Take a look at the combine data from this years draft. For a normal 6'3" guy, that puts him over 40" max vertical.

I've met Jerry West and he's easily 6'4". He also has a 6'9" arm span that makes him a great defender. Jerry Would be a better version of Steph Curry in today's league. Similar offensive game, but West is a better defender, rebounder and has the extreme competitive drive of a Kobe or MJ. Legendary clutch player as well.

Artest would chase West around in circles running into screens all night as Jerry put up 32 points.

Comparing athletes across generations to each other is retarded. You measure them against the era in which they played.

No GOAT then?

Yeah. Which athlete, given the quality of competition of their era, achieved the largest margin of greatness between themselves and the rest of the field? So Michael Jordan.

He is still about 6'8 and 210 lbs. You expect him to band down low with a guy like Shaq or Duncan or ZBo? I don't see it. He is a long SF in today's NBA. That's 25lbs lighter than Durant.

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Jerry West was a ****ing baller and the 3rd greatest shooting guard to ever play. A prime Jerry West would be a top 5 player in the NBA today. Beastly defender and a prolific scorer.

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I don't think West would be a baller today. I think he would backup JJ Reddick.

Pistol Pete would kill today.

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Anyone with a finesse game would do well in this environment, guys like George Gervin.

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Gervin also is 6'8 and played SG. That translates to any time period. He was also best at slashing and finishing in the paint, which would be easier now without all the hand checking.

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Yeah. Which athlete, given the quality of competition of their era, achieved the largest margin of greatness between themselves and the rest of the field? So Michael Jordan.

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+1


But I still don't think Russell would be a good center today.

As was said before, if the players had the access to weights it would be different and bill Russell would be even more of a manimal.

I do however agree that Jerry west wouldn't be much of anything today

[This message has been edited by mAgnoliAg (edited 5/19/2013 3:11p).]

But it is difficult to compare the generations because of different developmental and coaching tactics.

There is a 0% chance that this guy weighs less than Kevin Durant. Listed weights are wrong.

[This message has been edited by Ulrich (edited 5/19/2013 4:55p).]

No. KD is a little taller. I'd say the listings are a little off for durant because he jumped from 215 to 230 this year and I don't really see it.

KD could be a foot taller and he'd still be lighter than Russell.

Chamberlain was an absolute beast and he would be a 30 point 18 rebound guy today. He at one time held the high jump record in the state of Kansas and could run the 440 in about 47 seconds. The guy was also as stong as an ox. Chamberlain is the most dominant force in the history of the NBA and would without a doubt dominate in today's game. In his 50s gms thought he could average 15 off the bench and in a pick up game at UCLA absolutely embarrassed Magic Johnson when he well past 50.

I get different eras. If the Kansas City Chiefs of last year who was the worst team in the NFL were transported back to the 1970s they would murder the Steelers of that era. And by murder I mean it would be well over 4 touchdowns. But.when talking about Chamberlain that is different. That guy makes Dwight Howard look pedestrian.

And the fact that Bill R could control him past his prime show he could dominate today as well.

The way the game has evolved makes it so tough to compare those eras. It is like trying to compare quarterbacks currently playing to those of Elway or Baugh's time. It is tough to do.


The rules today are set up to benefit attacking perimeter players. It is such a more wide open game now than even from the Jordan era. For most teams, they have 3-4 guys on the floor that will shoot the 3 if given a slight opening.

There is something to be said about how much faster and stronger today's players are. And those items can help neutralize height.