Been reading Bill Simons' bok over the last two weeks and all I can say is HOLY CRAP. This is literally the greatest boom I've ever read. My goal already was to become Bill Simmons Jr. as a writer, but this just solidified it. Absolutely amazing read that I can't put down.

Biggest changes:

Kobe Bryant jumps into the top 10
Tim Duncan moves up a spot to 6
Dirk Nowitzki jumps into the top 25
LeBron James jumps into the top 10
Dwyane Wade jumps to low 40's
Tony Parker bumps Tom Chambers off the list

I read it. Good read, but now I know more about the Celtics from 50 years ago than I ever wanted to.

I don't like his method of rating. I don't think Walton played enough to rate him top 30. He was great for the 18 months he was relatively healthy, but even though at his peak, Walton was probably better than Dirk, I think I would rather have 12 years of healthy-all star Dirk over Walton who didn't play 70 games until he was 33 and a 6th man.

Season by season games played by Walton:
35
51
65
58
14
33
55
67
80
10

I agree. The highest I would put Duncan is 15 all time. 6 is preposterous.

LOL.

But yeah, I retract my statement. 6 is too high. Simmons had him to high in the first place. He's still in Top 10 tier with Hakeem and Kobe. The 7-9 range.

Read it a year ago. Pissed me off that the Tim Duncan piece was just an excerpt from one of his online articles.

Other than that it was great.

I'm guessing everyone can agree that Jordan, Russell, Kareem and Magic are top 4 in some order.

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But yeah, I retract my statement. 6 is too high. Simmons had him to high in the first place. He's still in Top 10 tier with Hakeem and Kobe. The 7-9 range.

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So would you put Jerry West, Bird, Wilt, and Oscar over Duncan? Those were Simmons next 4, not including Duncan at 7. Hakeem, Shaq and Moses rounded out the top 12 in the upper tier.

Level 1

96. Tom Chambers

95. Jo Jo White

94. Jack Twyman

93. Kevin Johnson

92. Bob Lanier

91. Dwight Howard

90. Chris Paul

89. Shawn Kemp

88. Gail Goodrich

87. Connie Hawkins

86. Arvydas Sabonis

85. Robert Horry

84. Cliff Hagan

83. Vince Carter

82. Chris Mullin

81. Dave Bing

80. Bailey Howell

79. Bobby Dandridge

78. Paul Westphal

77. Dan Issel

76. Artis Gilmore

75. Tracy McGrady

74. Joe Dumars

73. Sidney Moncrief

72. Chris Webber

71. Lenny Wilkens

70. David Thompson

69. Dennis Rodman

68. Pete Maravich

67. Earl Monroe

66. Adrian Dantley

65. Alex English

64. Jerry Lucas

63. Ray Allen

62. Reggie Miller

Level 2

61. Bob McAdoo

60. Nate Archibald

59. Robert Parish

58. Bernard King

57. Tommy Heinsohn

56. Paul Arizin

55. Dominique Wilkins

54. Paul Pierce

53. Dwayne Wade

52. Dennis Johnson

51. Bill Sharman

50. Dolph Schayes

49. Elvin Hayes

48. James Worthy

47. Billy Cunningham

46. Hal Greer

45. Dave DeBusschere

44. Nate Thurmond

43. Clyde Drexler

42. Jason Kidd

41. Wes Unseld

40. Gary Payton

39. Patrick Ewing

38. Steve Nash

37. Dirk Nowitzki

Level 3

36. George Mikan

35. Kevin McHale

34. George Gervin

33. Sam Jones

32. Walt Frazier

31. Dave Cowens

30. Willis Reed

29. Allen Iverson

28. David Robinson

27. Bill Walton

26. Rick Barry

25. John Stockton

Level 4

24. Scottie Pippen

23. Isiah Thomas

22. Kevin Garnett

21. Bob Cousy

20. LeBron James

19. Charles Barkley

18. Karl Malone

17. Bob Pettit

16. Julius Erving

15. Kobe Bryant

14. Elgin Baylor

13. John Havlicek

The Pantheon

12. Moses Malone

11. Shaquille O’Neal

10. Hakeem Olajuwon

9. Oscar Robertson

8. Jerry West

7. Tim Duncan

6. Wilt Chamberlain

5. Larry Bird

4. Magic Johnson

3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

2. Bill Russell

1. Michael Jordan

LeBron is in the Pantheon easily. Dirk into the top 25

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LeBron is in the Pantheon easily. Dirk into the top 25

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I agree

Related for fans of the Iceman: Zach Lowe had a nice little interview with Gervin.

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I remember we used to go into Indiana, and Indiana had this promotion — if you hold Ice under 30, everybody gets free McDonald’s. And let me tell you: Nobody ate on Ice.

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http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/65599/the-iceman-speaketh-george-gervin-on-the-spurs-playing-with-dr-j-and-which-modern-player-is-most-like-him

It's appropriate that Bill Simons initials are BS.

Who does LeBron bump out of the Pantheon?

i don't think he bumps anyone out... Lebron would just move in to the Pantheon... but if you HAVE to bump someone, i guess it would be M. Malone.

I think the nature of it is that each group just expands to include more people.

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86. Arvydas Sabonis

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I haven't read Mr. Simmons' book, but I do value his opinion and think he's funny. But can someone please tell me why Yao Ming isn't on this list? he needs to be a Level 1 player between #86 -#96 at the VERY least... don't believe me? go compare Sabonis to Yao...

I also haven't read the book but wasn't Sabonis successful in Europe?

I think Lebron has already passed Moses, Shaq, and (pains me to say it as a Rockets fan) Hakeem in the pantheon.

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I also haven't read the book but wasn't Sabonis successful in Europe?

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Imagine if Hakeem was a better passer, could shoot the three and was 7'3

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I also haven't read the book but wasn't Sabonis successful in Europe?

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his book focuses on the NBA.

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I think Lebron has already passed Moses, Shaq, and (pains me to say it as a Rockets fan) Hakeem in the pantheon.

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agree with you about moses. Idk about shaq though.. shaq physcially dominated the game at his position like Lebron does (this is why i hate comparing players of different positions)...

and no way lebron passed Hakeem (again I hate comparing different positions)... but if Lebron never played again there is no way he passed Hakeem... Hakeem was a very special talent who affected the game in all facets... I think it will be much more difficult to find another Hakeem type player as opposed to a Lebron type player.. who know Andrew Wiggins is supposed to be the next big thing..

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Hakeem was a very special talent who affected the game in all facets... I think it will be much more difficult to find another Hakeem type player as opposed to a Lebron type player.

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I'm a little curious how Lebron doesn't qualify as "a very special talent who affects the game in all facets" when he plays point-power forward and is considered the best defender 1-3 in the league while averaging 27-8-7 on 57% shooting.

Lebron is going to end up with something like 10,000 more points than Olajuwon. Steals are in play. He assists far, far more than Olajuwon. Defense is impossible to compare, but they are both elite defenders in their era. Lebron already has more playoff success.

[This message has been edited by Ulrich (edited 6/28/2013 5:17p).]

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Imagine if Hakeem was a better passer, could shoot the three and was 7'3

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Hakeem was a better passer than Sabonis...

Yao beats Sabonis in points, blocks, rebounds, free throw %, and all star games... they both played roughly the same amount of games in the league..

Ulrich... not taking away from Lebron.. he def' qualifies... but people forget how great "the dream" was just because lebron is more fresh in their minds... Again, i don't like comparing different positions.

p.s. Hakeem competed against tougher opponents than Lebron deals with... I believe most people would agree that the NBA is watered down..

Hakeem also played in an era that favored big men, it's not a coincidence that there were a bunch of good ones back then. I don't think adding two more teams in the middle of Olajuwon's career watered the league down that much.

[This message has been edited by Ulrich (edited 6/28/2013 5:19p).]

I agree.. but I would also say that for whatever reason big men are hard to find now than in the past... Your telling me that if Hakeem came along now that he wouldn't dominate today's big men(Dwight Howard, Hibbert, Duncan, Lopez, Bosh, Bynum(if he's ever healthy again).. etc) regardless of the rules?

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Hakeem was a better passer than Sabonis.

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Please

It's really difficult to say. Maybe he dominates, maybe not. Different rules. He was great in his era no doubt, but there were tons of guys racking block numbers that are virtually unheard of nowadays. I don't think it's an accident that almost all the best single seasons for bpg occurred from the mid 80s to mid 90s.

uncle bb - go look at the stats

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Hakeem was a better passer than Sabonis.

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Please

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Please my ass

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It's really difficult to say. Maybe he dominates, maybe not. Different rules. He was great in his era no doubt, but there were tons of guys racking block numbers that are virtually unheard of nowadays. I don't think it's an accident that almost all the best single seasons for bpg occurred from the mid 80s to mid 90s.

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umm one reason is the game is guard oriented now and teams are shooting more 3's than ever before... Hakeem's footwork was amazing for a guy his size thanks to his soccer playing days... his footwork alone would cause today's bigs to look like highschool players next to Hakeem

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Hakeem was a better passer than Sabonis.

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Please

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Please my ass

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Could you even wipe your own ass when Hakeem won his first title?

Hakeem would pass effectively out of the double team, but he wasn't anything special.

Sabonis was great passer with terrific vision. Miles better than Olajuwon.

And Bill Walton was miles better than Sabonis.

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And Bill Walton was miles better than Sabonis.

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I don't know about miles better...the thing that makes them harder to compare is that we got to see Walton's greatness when he was young and had all of his game available. The NBA Sabonis we saw was limited physically due to injuries and age. Different eras makes it harder to compare, too. They were both blessed with great court vision, though, and it's a shame we didn't get to see either of them perform at their best for very long.