http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/scott-miller/23286878/broken-angels-tense-atmosphere-nearly-included-pujols-hunter-fight-in-2012

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During a 10-8 implosion the next night in which starter C.J. Wilson was cuffed for seven earned runs in 4 2/3 innings, some players grew weary of Wilson's chirping in the dugout – especially when he began giving advice to hitters. Hunter sharply told him to pipe down and the two had words in the dugout.

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In a glimpse into how fractured the Angels had become, they could not even agree on a meeting format. Hawkins called for a players-only meeting. Pujols, insisting that manager Mike Scioscia and the coaches attend, wound up co-opting the meeting.

Pujols called out Weaver for showing up a teammate the night before. Then he turned his attention on Hunter, blaming him for the dugout altercation with Wilson.

What Pujols did not know at the time was that Wilson and Hunter already had made amends, with the pitcher apologizing to the outfielder for overstepping his bounds in the dugout immediately following the game.

“Albert, you'd better get your facts straight,” a seething Hunter told Pujols.

Pujols said something back, and Hunter jumped him for being a bad teammate and pouting all season whenever he failed to get hits in a game, even in games the Angels won … and now he was going to call others out?

“Shut up, Torii,” Pujols snapped.

It was then that Hunter, from across the clubhouse, lost it and charged Pujols. Hawkins and outfielder Vernon Wells had to restrain him.

The meeting proceeded from there, and when it was over, tempers still heated, Hunter had to be physically held back a second time from going after Pujols, who is described as wanting no part of the fight.

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I liked the article... not to relish in the Halos' failings, but I like to see things about players like Hawkins and Hunter.

I'm a big fan of "clubhouse guys" and those that bring the chemistry to the team.

The competition, conflict and power struggle of an Owner, GM and Manager are well understood, well documented... So is the conflict between multi-million dollar know-it-alls who strive for praise and winning.

There is no doubt Scioscia has had success. There is no doubt they have MANY talented players.

I also truly believe Hunter and Pujols were much better teammates to each other after such an altercation. After almost every playground fight I had... we ended up being good friends.

When I look at the Rangers' front office... Daniels v Nolan... Greenberg v the Rangers... what has impressed me is that aspect. Greenberg left. Nolan remained. CJ left. Hamilton left. Cliff Lee left. Yet, they still seem to be playing on solid ground.

I know some don't want to hear it... but the relationship between Wash and the players... and Wash with Daniels and Wash with Nolan and Ownership... seems genuine. Each feels like they have a voice that matters that allows them to affect the area they need... Wash feels he can voice what he needs from a personnel to Management and may not get exactly what he wants, but will be heard and provided.

And I don't know if ALL teams do this... but I really like the way the Rangers handle Scouts. When a player is selected that a scout has been responsible for... that scout is invited to see his MLB debut. I think that is really cool.

I think when you play for an organization that doesn't have the type of conflict in LAAAA you take it for granted and underestimate the impact. Pujols left a pretty good organization in St. Louis. CJ left in search of money, and Hamilton left a place in which the organization was sympathetic to his situation.

10 years (Pujols) is a long time to commit to play for a franchise that seemingly will be in conflict during it's lifespan. For Hamilton... 4 more years of unnecessary stress. Not sure how long Scioscia has, but that is a long time to keep your mouth shut, when you are undermined and not listened to.

There's obviously something to be said for chemistry...that's not a groundbreaking conclusion. And I agree, the Wash potbangers conveniently leave that part out when they're ready to fire him over a bunt.

I just think it's interesting to see an actual account of what a complete ***** Ceej is and what a guy like Torii Hunter was dealing with when he was put in a room with a bunch of other mercs.

The report is out there that, at seasons end, either DiPoto or Sciosia are going away. If that decision is up to Moreno, who is actually more to blame for any of this than the manager or GM, then it's going to be must see TV.

Arte Moreno is baseball's version of Jerry Jones/Al Davis

Speaking of...


http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-heyman/23287160/while-dipoto-or-scioscia-will-lose-angels-blame-game-owner-is-far-from-clean

Great article.

Moreno's rotisserie style of ownership earns him a Daniel Snyder comparison as well.

Ich habe schadenfreude.

The real question is, what type of lil***** do you have to be to run to a reporter with what happened during a players only meeting.

What happened to hunters son and the rape charge?

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“It's been tough,” Weaver says. “Anytime you're used to winning the American League West the past few years, it's tough.

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What?? Oakland and Texas have won the west over the past few years

I think it's very unfair to make the comparison to Jerry jones.

While I get very frustrated with some of Jerry's decision making, he treats people very well. People hat have worked for Jerry don't talk bad about him.

The problem with Jerry is his insistence on being a football man.

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People that have worked for Jerry don't talk bad about him.

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Yes, Jimmy Johnson and Parcells praise their time in Jerry's employment to the point that it starts to get outright embarrassing...

JJ has many flaws but you don't hear things like this about the cowboys organization. In fact, many have suggested that one of Jerry's flaws is that he's too loyal to people on his staff.

Since his first full year as owner of the Angels in 2004, Moreno has fired close to 40 members of the front office, baseball operations department and scouting and medical staffs. The Angels maintain a skeletal front-office staff in many areas, and one of the leanest game-day staffs in all of baseball. If someone is let go, there often is no replacement hired. Moreno is said to gouge hours from his low-paid employees.

They have the same effect on the product on the field, Mac.


That's the point.


Who wins "Boss of the Year" doesn't really have anything to do with this thread.

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They have the same effect on the product on the field, Mac.


That's the point.


Who wins "Boss of the Year" doesn't really have anything to do with this thread.

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Ok, if you say so.

I think if you are going to simply look at this issue with the angle of both teams results have been mediocre recently, that would be pretty superficial.

"The angle" is that both organizations have meddlesome owners who have negatively effected the results on the field.

Also, both owners typically escape any real accountability to that...hooray for owning stuff, right?

It's not rocket science, Mac. Even for a blind Jerry defender.

I'm not blind.

I just find a distinction in how the people that run organizations I care about treat people in the organization. Call me crazy.

[This message has been edited by macarthur (edited 8/26/2013 4:32p).]

And what is truly blind is people that only see black and white.

Yeah but you do realize that there are owners who treat employees like crap that also have winning teams, right?


So, if you're simply saying Jerry's a nicer guy than Arte...great. But that has nothing to do with the point of the articles which is that because of their personel meddling, nice guy or not, the product on the field has suffered.

And yes, Mac, you are a blind Jerry loyalist. It's not a bad thing so no need to deny it.

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And what is truly blind is people that only see black and white.

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Totally agree.

Giving Jerry a pass because he's a sweet old guy doesn't make a ton of sense.

If you want your team to be successful, anyway.

I didnt give him a pass. I'm simply making a distinction in how he treats people versus artie.

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And yes, Mac, you are a blind Jerry loyalist. It's not a bad thing so no need to deny it.

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Completely untrue.

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Pujols left a pretty good organization in St. Louis. CJ left in search of money, and Hamilton left a place in which the organization was sympathetic to his situation.

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Pujols wanted a long-term deal.

Hamilton wanted the most money he could get.

CJ wanted to return to his native Southern California.

Be careful for what you wish--you may get it.

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and Hamilton left a place in which the organization was sympathetic to his situation.

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In what way shape or form were the Rangers (both the players and the fans and the front office) not sympathetic to his situation?

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Pujols wanted a long-term deal.

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10yr/$220M vs 10yr/$240M
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/cardinals-boost-offer-to-pujols/article_968bf333-74e8-5b87-b245-ae4ae5b33301.html

If that report was true... it was about $$$ and not years. One thing about leaving St.Louis... he'll always been endeared by them. If he signed with them, they'd have abandon him leaving a sour taste in their mouth.

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Hamilton wanted the most money he could get.

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For sure. And what he left was a club house that catered to him (pardon the pun).

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CJ wanted to return to his native Southern California.

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That was certainly his preferred spot. I think he would have gone to NYY, if that was the most money. Regardless, he was leaving Texas, for sure. He wanted to be in the limelight.

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Be careful for what you wish--you may get it.

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Exactly.

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and Hamilton left a place in which the organization was sympathetic to his situation.
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In what way shape or form were the Rangers (both the players and the fans and the front office) not sympathetic to his situation?

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Re-read the sentence. He said that Hamilton left an organization that was sympathetic.

Oops, my bad. I read it as that he left FOR a place that was sympathetic.

My bad.

small note...the Reds won a championship in 1990 when Marge Schott owned the team

Didn't she own a brewery?

I'm not sure what is true and what is fiction\conjecture, regarding here. I can wonder about that on a different thread.

Schott owned a bunch of auto dealers.

Moreno is thousand times better than her. Better person and better owner. She was a horrible lady.

Just a quick bump since Jon Daniels isn't that great anymore and CJ is an example of a whiff.

bird

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Schott owned a bunch of auto dealers.

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That was a Laverne & Shirley reference.