http://mweb.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/24372580/mlb-set-to-ban-homeplate-collisions-needs-mlbpa-approval

Not sure how I feel about this. I enjoyed the occassional collision but I understand the need to protect high priced catchers.

Don't have an issue with them making it more like college baseball. I think there was a thread on this a month or two ago, and the article brings up the same point as I did in that thread - if they are going to force runners to slide, they need to enforce the obstruction rules more strictly than they do now (which is basically never).

Dumb

@ danny

Agreed. Although I'm not sure this needed to be addressed via rule change. If you don't want the catcher getting run over it's pretty easy to coach them to sweep tag instead of blocking the plate.

[This message has been edited by The Anchor (edited 12/12/2013 11:15a).]

Exactly. Posey isn't allowed to block the plate anymore. The Giants staff was very strict on it this year. Of course, the stupid swipe tag he has to use has allowed a decent number of runners to score that otherwise woulda been easy outs, but I suppose that's part of the game in the future...

I don't tune in to watch collisions at the plate, however, I do tune in to watch Buster Posey and others play baseball.

^ Same here. I also don't tune in to watch baseball brawls. But, when they happen I am definitely going to watch.

The catchers don't need a new rule to protect them. The could simply not block the plate.

[This message has been edited by The Anchor (edited 12/12/2013 1:16p).]

That's not always the case. I've seen plenty of catchers get plowed when just in the vicinity but not blocking. Posey is one of many examples where a catcher got plowed while on the fair side of the baseline and the runner with a clear path to homeplate. He was crouched a foot or two right in front of homeplate and was not blocking the path. Sometimes it's just the last ditch "I'm going to be out my a mile unless I level this guy and send him to queer street" that you don't see at any other base. Or the runner just anticipates a plate-block and plows him just to be sure.

These types of rules are in place at every level except the pros, and I don't think it's harming the game at those levels in any way.

[This message has been edited by DannyDuberstein (edited 12/12/2013 1:45p).]

Some gracious Giants fan already diagrammed it for me. The collision mindset is out there because both runners and catchers have been allowed to get away with too much. You see 2B/SS's in similar position to 2B as Posey when getting ready to make a tag on a steal, and they don't get plowed.

I agree that the runner went out of his way in that instance, as well as others. I still think its a hazard of the position. But, I also disagree with a majority of the "targeting" and some of the personal foul penalties in football. We are becoming a pansy society and it is starting to show in our professional sports. I guess I'm in the minority.

If anything make a rule that if a player leaves the route to the bag/plate for the purpose of a collision a fine would be implemented. There are A LOT of collisions like this at second and nothing is done about it.

[This message has been edited by the anchor (edited 12/12/2013 2:39p).]

No runner is going in standing up with a shoulder or forearm to initiate serious contact like this at 2B. There are feet first slides to break up double plays that can get physical (which I would point out would still align with the proposed rule for home plate), but those completely pale in comparison to this type of collision. "a LOT" of Posey-like plowings are not occurring at 2B.

I also think it's easy for people to play the pansy card when they've never caught the position with the existing set of MLB rules. And again, this type of play has been outlawed at every other level of baseball for quite a while now - decades in many cases. I think it's a little silly to have players play under a different set of rules their entire lives, and then when they reach the pros, it's open season.

[This message has been edited by DannyDuberstein (edited 12/12/2013 3:50p).]

I hate the 'let's put dresses on them' talk regarding these things.

There is nothing macho about knocking someone silly when they have no opportunity to protect/defend themselves.

To me it’s a risk reward decision that should be made by the catcher. If you want to run the risk of getting knocked out and hurt by all means block the plate. If you rather play it safe but risk the runner getting around a tag go for it. Either way it was his choice and he can’t be upset either way.

quote:

---

No runner is going in standing up with a shoulder or forearm to initiate serious contact like this at 2B. There are feet first slides to break up double plays that can get physical (which I would point out would still align with the proposed rule for home plate), but those completely pale in comparison to this type of collision. "a LOT" of Posey-like plowings are not occurring at 2B.

---

You misread what I typed. However, I can see how it could be confusing. To better clarify I said that there are a lot of runners leaving the baseline to make contact at 2nd base and it is very rarely ever called even though it is against the rules.

quote:

---

I also think it's easy for people to play the pansy card when they've never caught the position with the existing set of MLB rules. And again, this type of play has been outlawed at every other level of baseball for quite a while now - decades in many cases. I think it's a little silly to have players play under a different set of rules their entire lives, and then when they reach the pros, it's open season

---

I agree with you on this.

quote:

---

I hate the 'let's put dresses on them' talk regarding these things.

There is nothing macho about knocking someone silly when they have no opportunity to protect/defend themselves.

---

I agree. But, I don't think the rules needed to change. Teach the catchers to be smarter about where they position instead of now giving them an advantage and taking a significant advantage away from the base runner. And to clarify, I am against knocking someone silly when they can't protect themselves. But, if the catcher puts himself in play he is fair game. Just like a receiver who just caught a ball should be fair game for a defender to knock the ball loose.

Again, the fallacy of that thinking is that catchers are only getting plowed when they are actually blocking the plate. That's not the case. I showed it with Posey, but that's jsut one example. When this topic came up this offseason, I read a story that included a 3-4 minute compilation of vicious home plate collisions. I'd say on anywhere from a 25% to 1/3 of them, the catcher was not actually blocking the plate. Similar to Posey, they were in the vicinity trying to catch the ball and the runner plowed them anyway. And in additional cases outside of that 25-30%, some of them were standing/hovering over home but not blocking it, where there was room to slide underneath the tag and get to the plate.

I just think runners approach with the mindset that even if the catcher is not currently in the way, he's going to put himself there as soon as he gets the ball. So just like the Posey collision, they come in high and plow anyway, oftentimes when it doesn't turn out to be "necessary". It's not that they are looking to hurt someone, but if you're anticipating a collision, then it's hard to change that approach at the last instant.

[This message has been edited by DannyDuberstein (edited 12/12/2013 5:05p).]

quote:

---

Again, the fallacy of that thinking is that catchers are only getting plowed when they are actually blocking the plate. That's not the case.

---

This is the problem. I'm fine with the collisions, but it has gotten out of hand with runners going out of their way to knockdown guys not blocking it.

I can certainly see the point you're making. But, why not fine them instead?

Eta-if runners go out of the baseline to make a collision. This would cover other bases as well.

[This message has been edited by the anchor (edited 12/12/2013 5:12p).]

Instead of handing out fines, I'd just rather see a very simple rule change that works at every other level of baseball. You take that collision mindset out of the approach, and guys aren't going to the hospital as much or seeing their seasons end prematurely.

The Posey collision technically didn't involve leaving the baseline, but it still caused a player's season to end 4 months early on a play where the runner could have slid in safe anway.

It's back to my earlier point. On many of these, I think the runner goes in with the plow mindset because they are expecting a block. It's not necessarily malicious, it's just hard to change strategy in your last stride or two when it turns out that block never arrived. So you take that plow strategy away and that decision isn't required.

[This message has been edited by DannyDuberstein (edited 12/12/2013 5:19p).]

I think you may have convinced me that this could be a good idea. However, this change won't be sinple. There are going to be all kinds of questions of obstruction and the like. How close does the ball have to be to justify the catcher blocking the plate? Hopefully they can clear sll that up before any new rule is our in place.

Definitely would require a mindset change, but the college game took it on several years ago and it's not seemed to cause a stir. I also think expanded replay, which is what we seem to be headed for, could help.

And if this rule goes into affect they should start enforcing going out of the baseline for a collision at other bases too.

quote:

---

Definitely would require a mindset change, but the college game took it on several years ago and it's not seemed to cause a stir. I also think expanded replay, which is what we seem to be headed for, could help.

---

Its been out of college for a while. I played in the early 2000s and it wasn't allowed then. I'm all for expanded replay for certain calls.

players need to watch video of Jeff Bagwell sliding into home plate. He mastered the feet-first slide thru the batter's box and then reach back with the left hand to touch the plate

You're going to have a hard time implementing a rule keeping catchers from blocking the plate. That catcher has just as much right to block the plate than the runner does trying to get to it.

I think you just have to make the rule the same as it is in HS and little league...You have to slide feet first into home plate or stand up.

But not allowing a catcher to block the plate isn't going to work. It's the same dynamic as WRs and DBs going for the ball. They each have a right to make play and you can't take that away from either one.

07, requiring them to stand up or feet first would be taking that opportunity away from the runner. No way should you ban head first slides, as those are actually the beset way to get to the plate fastest around a catcher who is blocking.

There also need to be limitations on the catcher though, the catcher should be in the act of making a play or catching the ball, just like at another base. You can't just stand in front of second base to block someone if the play isn't relatively close.

The college rule basically bans making contact with the catcher above the waist. So you can still come in with a head of steam and choose to go feet or head first, and a blocked plate can still be forcefully "taken" with this. You'll occasionally see mlb runners do this where the catcher ends up taken out not unlike a SS or 2B. That's why I don't view it entirely as putting a skirt on anyone. There can still be collisions. You just reduce the chances of a catcher suffering a serious head injury.

Baseball purists (not snobs, but purists) recognize that a great throw from the outfield is perhaps the most exciting play in baseball. Yes, there are triples and walk-offs, etc., but there's something truly bautiful about watching a right fielder uncork a lazer beam to home plate. My point is that by the time the collision occurs at the plate, the beautiful part of the play has already happened most of the time. Watching the catcher get plowed over adds nothing to the experience. If the throw beats you, you're out.

[This message has been edited by 94chem (edited 12/21/2013 9:43p).]