So I kept wondering why AAA umps were umping different games. Most of the time it was pointed out when the home plate ump was very inconsistent. I watch most M's games and it has happened at least three times this season. Brooks Baseball has confirmed the zones being pretty bad and inconsistent.

Anyway, found out the reason for these AAA umps is because the stupid replay center uses 8 umps at a time. I understand the need for replay but seems it is effecting the game even more having the AAA umps behind the plate than just not having replay. Really should have gone with an approach the NFL has instead.

I had thought the center had 1 or 2 people that were specific to that job.

Are the umps watching all the games live? I don't understand why they'd need that many at the same time as the likely hood of being more than one challenge simultaneously seems pretty remote.

I can see needing 3. That way they'd have a consensus. 2 out of 3 to overrule a call (or it may even need to be unanimous).

From what I've read each ump watches two games and those two are the ones they do the replay. If it is tough call they bring in the others for their thoughts. Seems arbitrary.

Disagree that they need to be more like the NFL. Their peepshow under the hood is a bog-down mess. I want experienced umps in front of a mass of giant tv's and tech. 8 seems like overkill, but what I don't want is the crew chief having to head up the tunnel, get all set up, etc before he can even start reviewing. The other factor is that I think the NFL is sometimes too hesitant to overturn a call, which I imagine is partly due to the fact you have a crew reviewing itself.

[This message has been edited by DannyDuberstein (edited 5/13/2014 1:32p).]

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The other factor is that I think the NFL is sometimes too hesitant to overturn a call, which I imagine is partly due to the fact you have a crew reviewing itself.

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Good point!

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From what I've read each ump watches two games and those two are the ones they do the replay.

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Do they only review plays that they are requested to review?

If so, then there is no need for them to watch games live. They could just review the ones were a challenge is issued. This seems really excessive!

[This message has been edited by Say Chowdah (edited 5/13/2014 1:51p).]

I'm guessing they are simply trying to get a headstart on reviewing close calls so that the interruption to the game is minimized when they do get the formal review request from the game.

[This message has been edited by DannyDuberstein (edited 5/13/2014 1:59p).]

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I want experienced umps in front of a mass of giant tv's and tech

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The problem is you are taking away from experienced umps making balls/strikes calls. How many challenges are there per night, I'm guessing 5 would be a high number. So you have 8 umps for about 5 calls and throw a garbage ump to make 200 important calls?

I'm fine with the idea but not at the expense of crappy umps being used in more important roles. Why not hire (or promote) two people to work that station full time and get rid of the rotation. It's basically what Mike Perwhatever does for Fox and NFL.

I mentioned 8 seemed like overkill, but I do think at least 4 would make sense. God bless the future of baseball if they can't find one competent crew. I also think there is value to having replay umps work the real deal vs being 100% desk jockeys.

Also, Mike P doesn't work for the NFL. He was the VP of Officiating, then retired and took the FOX gig.


[This message has been edited by DannyDuberstein (edited 5/13/2014 4:24p).]

Game umps and replay umps should be a completely different pool I think. Calling something in the heat of the moment is different than watching something on replay.

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I mentioned 8 seemed like overkill, but I do think at least 4 would make sense. God bless the future of baseball if they can't find one competent crew. I also think there is value to having replay umps work the real deal vs being 100% desk jockeys.

Also, Mike P doesn't work for the NFL. He was the VP of Officiating, then retired and took the FOX gig.


[This message has been edited by DannyDuberstein (edited 5/13/2014 4:24p).]

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I know he works for Fox. My point is he is one man watching all the games and can normally give a decision before the ref can.

Ok. So maybe I'll repeat it a third time. I don't see why they need 8 either. Think we're in agreement on that point.

[This message has been edited by DannyDuberstein (edited 5/13/2014 11:15p).]

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Game umps and replay umps should be a completely different pool I think. Calling something in the heat of the moment is different than watching something on replay.

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So you'd prefer some oldtimers or guys that are otherwise unqualified to be part of an on-the-field crew manning the replay booth? I think the exact opposite. No one is more qualified than a current crew, and at the same time, I'd like to see them all keeping their skills sharp by still being an on-the-field crew most of the time. Rotate a crew through the booth like you do a MLB city. It also keeps the replay calls from developing a consistent bias.

Making the call live and in the heat of the moment and being able to call balls and strikes correctly is a very different skill set than reviewing a play and completely understanding the interpretation of the rules.

Sort of like the difference between a teacher and a principal.

That's a good point about the bias though.

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Making the call live and in the heat of the moment and being able to call balls and strikes correctly is a very different skill set than reviewing a play and completely understanding the interpretation of the rules.

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An on-the-field crew should be able to review a play and completely understand the rule as well as anyone in the country, whether it happens live or in slo-mo on a tv screen in front of them. If not, they shouldn't be in the replay booth or on the field. My point is that I don't want the replay booth to be a retirement farm or otherwise staffed with guys that can't handle being an on field crew, and I think there is something to be said for the sharpness that being an on-field crew requires that I think is an asset to the replay booth. You've got to understand every rule well enough to analyze a play and quickly apply any applicable rules without needing to waste extra time, and you've got to be decisive. That's an asset to a live crew and a replay crew. Plus, in the end, everyone would know the call got made by a genuine umpiring crew.

[This message has been edited by DannyDuberstein (edited 5/14/2014 12:34p).]

A better way to put it is on the field umps have to be selected based on lots of things. Balls and strikes, ejections, keeping the game moving. None of those things affect how good they are at making a call on replay. Keep the people who are the best at all of those things on the field. Don't put some of them in New York for a week and take them off the field.

Find the people who are the best at reviewing a play in super slow motion after the fact regardless of their ability to call balls and strikes and keep them in New York.

I would also argue that working in the replay center should help them in situations when they are actually on the field.

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I think the NFL is sometimes too hesitant to overturn a call

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I can tell you for a fact that this is not true. Any hesitancy you may perceive is based on the play itself and not in making the correct ruling. Some plays just aren't clear enough to give them the opportunity.

And yes, they do need to follow the NFL's model (forget the hood) in terms of having a 5th guy on the crew that is the replay umpire. The rotation would include a spot in the booth.

[This message has been edited by 91AggieLawyer (edited 5/25/2014 11:46a).]

You exacerbate the issue in the OP. Now instead of 8, you need 16-20 extra umps with that proposal.

And I would disagree with your "fact". They spend too long getting under the hood, jerking off under the hood, and not overturning calls that they are 95% sure about vs 100%.

Also, your proposal most closely resembles the NCAA football model, which is without a doubt the worst replay process in sports right now.

[This message has been edited by DannyDuberstein (edited 5/25/2014 1:28p).]