Have gone down to Tommy John. Insane and awful for the game.

Too many dads/coaches have their own interests at heart when developing these young pitchers. They don't have the kids' best interests at all. It's all about moving up, health is put on a back burner. They have to be able to throw these exploding breaking balls by little league to even be looked at. It's a tough world to live in.

I don't disagree about coaches and dads being a terrible influence for many... I just don't know that the correlation to the vast number of TJ surgeries is any greater this season, to any other.

MANY of the players are having their 2nd... 3rd surgery. I'd like to see more statistics like - how many have had them from year-to-year. It seems like a significant increase, but would like to compare.

Overall, the Rangers pitchers have been devastated by injuries (back, elbow, shoulder, knee (Holland), mental (Buckel))

Tepesch will be the 9th SP for the Rangers. And it seems epidemic in MLB this season.

11 in 2013.
11 in 2012.
7 in 2011.
10 in 2010.
10 in 2009.
15 in 2008.
15 in 2007.
12 in 2006.

Many of the SPs in the mid 00s were more about ineffectiveness, than injury (Kam Loe, Koronka, Mendoza, Robinson Tejeada).

IMO, there is something else afoot. I'm curious if MLB testing for HGH has had an affect?!

I think the year round baseball is a bad idea, particularly for pitchers. Either a kid can play or he can't. Year round won't help.

Martin Perez is about to be #35

Michael Young was on the Fan today while I was driving home. He was talking about when he was a kid how they played soccer in soccer season, football in football season, and baseball in baseball season. He agreed that kids shouldn't play year round.

There are so many choices within the baseball community that it's up to the parents to find a team or an organization that does protect the kids. They exist.

The organization my son plays for protects pitchers by:

1) We only play about 7 months out of the year - late August to November and late February to June.

2) We play about 2 tournaments per month.

3) The pitchers are held to very conservative pitch counts - around 30 in the fall; 30-35 in early spring which extends to around 80 in late spring.

4) Pitchers very rarely pitch twice in a weekend.

5) No pitcher is allowed to throw breaking pitches until 14U. Fastballs and change ups only.

With these rules in place, we do not win many tournaments, but that isn't the point. The point is to try to develop the kids to make their high school teams. That's it. No promises of college ball - not even suggestions of college ball. It's 100% about developing the kids for high school ball, and in today's ultra-competitive environment, just making a high school team is a tough task except for the most elite athletes (like Michael Young).

The number of pitchers going down to Tommy John surgery is insane. Pitching too much at a young age very well could be a factor, but I think there is more too it than that.

Look at how every MLB team has a slew of pitchers that can throw in the mid to upper 90's now. It used to be that if you threw in the 90's at all, you threw "hard". Now every team has several that can throw in the mid to upper 90's, not just the low 90's. I think all the emphasis on maximum velocity is taking it's toll, and more pitchers are breaking down. Could be many factors in play, but the TJ rate is crazy right now. Read an article the other day on this, and they suggested possibly lowering the mound a few inches?? Not sure if that is the answer or not, but it would take some of the stress off of pitchers arms, and would lower the velocity a tad as well.

I may be way off base here but I think weight lifting needs to be looked at... Biceps, triceps, forearms getting bigger and stronger able to exert more pressure.... Ligaments gotta give at some point????

Average velocity is up 2mph from 10 years ago. I do think elbow ligaments are being stressed right up to the failure point. Do that enough, and many eventually do fail.

quote:

---

The organization my son plays for protects pitchers by:

1) We only play about 7 months out of the year - late August to November and late February to June.

2) We play about 2 tournaments per month.

3) The pitchers are held to very conservative pitch counts - around 30 in the fall; 30-35 in early spring which extends to around 80 in late spring.

4) Pitchers very rarely pitch twice in a weekend.

5) No pitcher is allowed to throw breaking pitches until 14U. Fastballs and change ups only.

---

Does your son play for Twelve Baseball by chance?

My son pitches for this organization and they pretty much follow these same rules.


[This message has been edited by Corporal Punishment (edited 5/15/2014 9:43a).]

Corporal, yes, he plays for Twelve. He's been in the organization for a few years, and it's been a great experience.

Sadly, we are relocating to Houston this summer so we will be looking for a new baseball "home". There's a hundred to choose from, but there's only a handful that I would be comfortable with him playing for. I've reached out to the directors of Twelve, and they have given me some advice.

Could it possibly be that TJ surgery isn't looked on as badly as it once was? Players see others coming back and being better so when they get the option to rehab or surgery they just go ahead and get it over with.

there are tons of pitchers in the MLB that undergo it every year. it's weird that they are just now deciding to focus on it

quote:

---

I may be way off base here but I think weight lifting needs to be looked at... Biceps, triceps, forearms getting bigger and stronger able to exert more pressure.... Ligaments gotta give at some point????

---

I 100% agree with this sentiment. Weight training is such a big deal with any sport now, many athletes are at the point where the ligaments simply cannot handle the force exerted by the ever increasing size of the muscles.

overuse is the #1 cause for injury in sports. I don't think there's any doubt about that.

but there are a lot of stakeholders/moneymakers in the baseball development process from little league to high school to college to the minors to MLB

I think it was Mike Maddux (Rangers pitching coach) on the Rangers pre-game...

He said the game has really moved in favor of the hitter and that puts extra pressure on the pitcher. He said hitters are stronger and implied that pitchers are having to pitch in scoring situations or behind more often.

He also said the high numbers of TJ surgeries is likely the result of improved medicine. He said in the past, if a pitcher had a partial tear, they'd rehab it. Now, the success rate of TJ surgery and the fact they can come back stronger, many have decided to go ahead and get it done.

I think he was implying not that it makes the pitcher stronger, but makes their elbow\ligament stronger and it becomes less of an issue.

I think that was the decision with Perez. Years ago, he'd have been shut down for rehab. Instead, he'll have surgery.

He also quoted an old Dodgers coach who said, "There are two kinds of pitchers. Those who are going to have surgery... and those who have had surgery."

I thought that was funny as much as it was comforting.

There is definitely something to that. Guys rehabbed partial tears. Guys also pitched with pain through partial tears. These days it's pain followed by MRI followed by partial tear diagnosis followed by TJ.

Used to coach HS baseball a few years ago. Year round baseball is terrible. I urge anyone who does that to really consider why. Taking a break in the fall/winter is what I would suggest. Make it a two season sport if you've got a pitcher. If the kid just genuinely wants to play in the fall I'd at least have him shut the arm down.

I've actually thought about gettin involved in the 12/14 range again. I'd be having them throw nothing but fast and change. They can start learning breaking pitches at that point.

My boys haven't grown attached to baseball... yet... I'm still hoping.

They swim, though... What I don't understand is why more parents don't have their pitchers swimming. IF I can ever get my kids back on the diamond... I'm willing to bet if they have any ability to control the ball... They'd be drafted in the 1st 10 rounds as a pitcher.

They have incredible leg strength... incredible explosiveness... their shoulders are phenomenal... more flexibility than you could imagine... I'd also be willing to bet they have a couple arm slots that would allow them to make it routine to hit the same spot.

Take a season off...

[This message has been edited by DallasAg 94 (edited 5/17/2014 3:33p).]

Cliff Lee:
http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/10961195/cliff-lee-philadelphia-phillies-undergoes-mri-elbow

You're grabbing a baseball and throwing it 90+ miles an hour. Over and over and over again. Over 200 days in a calendar year.

IMO that type of motion just lends itself to injury -- I'm surprised that more pitchers don't experience it (and feel there's a good chance many more do, just battle through it because ultimately you don't get many shots to be in the bigs).