(cross post from Varsity - more baseball traffic here)

I'm an assistant coach for a 9U AA baseball team in Denver. This is obviously our first year in the league as we just moved here.

Our end of season, double elimination playoffs tournament started today. We were the first seed and played at 9am. That's the setting.

We received an email last week from the league director specifying all of the rules for the end of season double elimination playoffs tournament. One of the rules was about as clear as it gets that each coach must go to the league office to collect a "pitching form". This was to be with the team at all times during the tournament, was to be presented at the pre-game plate meeting, and was to be filled out in pen (specified again), and signed by a coach from both teams following the games. Presumably this was the manner in which the league was to monitor the innings used by pitches on the involved teams. At the top of the page, in bold and underlined text it says that failure to have the form, or failure to use only pen results in an immediate forfeit.

So here's the issue. First game came and went, with no issues. We won, both teams signed the form and we went off for lunch to wait for our second game at 1:00. When we get there and start warming up, our second round opponent says that they don't have a form, don't know anything about the form, and don't exactly know what to do. Implied in this is the fact that they obviously didn't have a form present at their first game either. This fact is made known to our head coach and he brings it up at the plate meeting. We have two teenage umpires, who were very fair and good throughout the games. They are not prepared for the situation and they call or clarification from the head ump. I wasn't present at the meeting, but it was evidently decided we should proceed with the game after a 15 minute delay. I don't know the exact ruling.

We end up losing the game. No excuses on my part - our B pitcher had a case of the walks today, unfortunately, and they hit the ball when it mattered most. My dilemma is now our HC, other Asst Coach, scorekeeper, and others are asking for a clarification from the league director as to why this wasn't a forfeit under the rules and that we played under protest. It feels a bit to me like a case of sour grapes, but I know that as we go further in the tournament the rules for this pitching sheet are going to be enforced.

I'm being asked to support this protest push, but I'm not sure I'm 100% behind it. What do you do in this situation?

find out who pitched the first game for the other team. if it was someone different than your game, then I'd drop it. If not, definitely worth pushing.

I'm not sure it's a dilemma since it sounds like the horse left the barn and the director was already contacted.

That said, I probably would have let it go. Sounds like a new process, and people simply suck at reading emails thoroughly. No matter what it is or how well an email is constructed, if you're communicating to a large group by email, you can always count on people missing the email entirely or scanning it too quickly. So i'd have most likely chalked it up to honest ignorance and moved on as long as I felt like we otherwise lost fair and square. Now if I had some reason to believe they broke the pitch limit rule (beyond not having the form), I'd pursue.

For me, it just boils down to what is fair for all of the kids, and a coach being a dumbass with an innocent administrative oversight isn't worthy of reversing the outcome determined on the field by the kids. I coach my daughters 5th and 1st grade softball, and I like to think of myself as one of the coaches that stays on top of things. But I've seen all sorts of dumbass coaches not pay proper attention; however, my preference is to see it corrected going forward vs seeing the kids impacted if it didn't matter.

[This message has been edited by DannyDuberstein (edited 6/7/2014 9:54p).]

As you pointed out, you lost the game. It wasn't the fault of the other team's players that the coach didn't turn the sheet it. It's 9 year old baseball. I'd let the result stand.

Protesting anything less than high school varsity is silly unless obvious shenanigans occurred. Sounds like the other team was upfront about everything before first pitch. Should have protested then.

Sounds like way too much adult in a kid game.

Winning on technicalities at that age is rediculous. What is the spirit of the rule and did the other coach violate the spirit? Does he have a rep. of being shady? Adults can be idiots.

I can't believe this was posted on a message board

A bit sanctimonious there. I was curious if others had been in the same situation.

Fwiw, I did not agree with it and I said as much to the coach.

If it matters, 2 of the 16 teams were forced to forfeit and exit the tournament for improper pitching usage. Throwing a kid two days in a row for seven innings total is abuse.

Nothing wrong with posting this.
I agree with what BMX said. Some super competitive dads/coaches will run their ACE into the ground. The rules are not only for preventing advantages, but for protection of the kids. I have seen young kids having elbow surgery for this very reason.

Little league is not usually perfect. Dads (okay a couple of moms too) are the biggest problems. It's been eye opening for me, I was working on the ranch when kids my age were playing all these sports. I had no idea that this kind of crazy stuff happened anywhere.

You should permaban those coaches. The coaches that did that kind of stuff in U9 were bad apples in the next level too.


[This message has been edited by HECUBUS (edited 6/17/2014 4:26p).]

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I'm an assistant coach for a 9U AA baseball team ?

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Lol, stopped reading right here

Glad I could provide some entertainment. Especially since you took the time to respond.

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Adults can be idiots.

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I couldn't agree more. I've been literally sickened by what I've seen at youth football that I now refuse to officiate or even attend that nonsense.

However, in this case, the real problem was that there wasn't a league official (an adult) there at the plate to monitor things and provide a definitive ruling (right or wrong). The umpires, at least in theory, know the rule book but may or may not be totally informed about administrative league rules not in the book -- and may not have the experience and aptitude to enforce those rules.

In the future, my opinion is the best way to handle this sort of thing is to stop, go get the commissioner or league rep and ask him to make a decision, again, right or wrong, and move forward once that decision is made. If time won't permit that, then get some statement from the other coach that he isn't in violation of the spirit of the rule and ask the umpires to make a judgment.

Based on what I've read, I'm not sure why you couldn't have taken a blank piece of paper, borrowed the pen of the home plate umpire (he has one) and had the coach give the information and sign it like on the form. In that case, the spirit of the rule is abided by and you move forward. Doing that and protesting later after a loss would be chickens hit.

The problem here isn't just about winning on a technicality... it is about winning at all cost regardless of age or abuse.

If these were first time coaches, then you can understand some confusion or lack of preparedness on having the sheet of paper. I would think the league would have them available on-site... Lesson is, as a coach... have one for the opposing team, I suppose.

However, I coached 8-9 year olds and was really surprised at what coaches and parents are willing to do, in the name of winning.

Sad.

Youth baseball is officially ruined. It's been terrible for a decade now, but this post proves it's over. These daddy ball select mafias have destroyed the game

YOU LOST

I hope you aren't directing that at me. We are trying to follow the rules as directed, not trying to win on a technicality. We had plenty of pitchers, and as it turns out, two teams were disqualified for using one pitcher too much.

This piece of paper was the only way to enforce pitching limits for health and competition reasons. Do I like the way it was set up? No, but it's what we had to deal with.

And FYI, this is not select ball.