Long Haul Business Class Experiences

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esd19
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4:53p, 2/10/24
AG
Planning a trip to India in either December or January depending on airfare, which made me curious about the opinions/personal experiences of this board.

I've read/watched many reviews and realize everyone has their preferences, though Qatar looks like the consensus leader with their QSuite business product that seems to align more with first class.

A few specific questions:
- are the US carriers that far behind the global norm?
- aside from the lie flat seat, what're the primary differences from premium economy? Trying to justify the jump in cost.
- how valuable is the lounge experience?
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MAROON
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In reply to esd19 • 5:28p, 2/10/24
AG
Flew Qatar from Dallas to Doha and then Doha to Joberg in the Q suites. It was a great experience.

Things I liked.

When you board you pre select the meals you want and then you let them know when you want them. They will not serve you or wake you up for a meal service. It was great to get the sleep I wanted and eat when I wanted.

Wine selections were fantastic. Seriously nice bottles.

Best sleeping was the suite against the fuselage for me

Middle suites are great if you are flying with another person or a group. You can drop all the walls and have almost like a party suite - play cards, etc.

My flights did not have the lounge on the plane.

Business class lounge in the Doha airport was nice, although pretty packed. Pretty much any food or drink you wanted.

Flying Emirates this summer on the same routes. Will be interesting to see if they measure up to Qatar Airlines. I've been told they are fantastic as well.
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akaggie05
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In reply to esd19 • 5:40p, 2/10/24
AG
esd19 said:


A few specific questions:
- are the US carriers that far behind the global norm?
- aside from the lie flat seat, what're the primary differences from premium economy? Trying to justify the jump in cost.
- how valuable is the lounge experience?
- US carriers aren't that far behind in the "hard" product, assuming apples to apples comparison of business class and first class between airlines. For the most part, a lie flat seat will be in a fairly standard pod configuration (either all facing forward or in a herringbone pattern, depending on the airline). First class is where things start to get really differentiated... the first class "room" on Emirates, for example. The "soft" product (cabin service, food/drink presentation, etc.) can vary widely and is typically lacking on US carriers. Recent point of comparison for me... flew from Dallas to London last summer in first class both ways (BA on the way there, AA on the way back). The BA service was head and shoulders above that on AA... flight attendants were attentive and you could really tell were striving to please while not being overly pushy. AA flight attendants basically threw food on our trays and came through a few times to refill drinks, then we were on our own to get up and ask for whatever. Toward landing at DFW I saw a couple of them behind the curtain up front stuffing their faces with leftover cookies.

- Best way to think of premium economy is that it's usually almost identical to a domestic first class seat, and sometimes (but not always) slightly upgraded food service.

- Value of lounge depends really on how much you value having a nice quiet place to sit and relax, eat/drink before the flight. The value it provides to me is typically a place to get some work done in the business center cubicles without distractions from crowds and constant airport announcements. The real value for me has been in the arrivals lounge on the far end of international flights. Totally changes your first day's experience and kicks jetlag in the junk when you can go take a hot shower, change, and grab a real breakfast before heading out after an overnight flight.
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Fairview
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5:46p, 2/10/24
AG
Travel international quite a bit to Europe and India. Some of these have first class configs but I'm talking about business class only. TLDR version Qsuites are the best for business class.

United Polaris - to me they have the most comfortable bed in the lay flat configuration. But to India they seem to be way more expensive and lack some privacy especially if you don't get an odd number seat on the window. Service is always hit or miss and food is meh at best. They did bring back the Sunday cart last year so that's something.

Qatar - Q suite is the best. Most private, best service, good food. They don't have individual air controls if that matters to you but it can be a little warm depending on how they have it for that flight. Theres no overheads so the cabin seems way more open. But that also means that there's more line of sight for people in the aisle to see into your seat. I've had the middle seats empty to me and the flight attendants made up a double bed in the middle for me which is cool but I wouldn't say it's too private even with the doors shut. The rear facing seats are the most private. Doha airport is crazy nice.

Etihad - the just opened a new terminal in Abu Dhabi which should be nice but I was there a week before it opened. One nice thing is you clear US customs in Abu Dhabi so it saves time when you get back. Same as Qatar there's no middle overheads so it makes the cabin seem spacious. All the window seats are exactly the same. Seat is nice and has door but it's a really low door. Better than no door though. Food was good but not Qatar good. Again no individual air controls. Also they only have 2 bathrooms for all of business class which ended up being ok for me but they do get busy. I'd fly them again for sure. That was for their A350's. Business on their 787's are dated and have maybe the hardest seat I've ever sat on. I've only done like 4 -5 hours on those which it's fine for but sleeping on that would be tough.

Emirates - super nice depending on the type of plane. Their business class on the 777 is not great. Not all seats have aisle access and there is a middle seat. They are starting to roll out their new configuration for those planes but it will take a while. In the A380 business class is super nice.

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Stat Monitor Repairman
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5:56p, 2/10/24
Quote:
- are the US carriers that far behind the global norm?
Yes, US carriers are ass when it comes to long haul. The union flight attendants on those routes have seniority and are senior citizens with a bad attitude that should've retired a decade or more ago. By far the laziest, slowest and fattest people working in the service industry today. Any international carrier is a better experience.
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Hoyt Ag
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In reply to Stat Monitor Repairman • 6:23p, 2/10/24
AG
100000% agree.
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esd19
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In reply to MAROON • 6:41p, 2/10/24
AG
Thanks!

I'll be with a group, so those middle QSuites are the real prize, though Qatar is currently $1500 more per ticket than a Star Alliance itinerary flying Lufthansa outbound, and Air Canada + United on the return. Might be worth it for the elevated in-flight experience, as well as transiting in Doha vs. Frankfurt and Heathrow.

Best of luck on your Emirates trip. They operate the 777 out of DFW in a 2-3-2 config instead of the 1-2-1 A380, so try and avoid that dreaded middle seat. In 2024 it seems shocking to have a business class configuration without direct aisle access for every seat.
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esd19
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In reply to akaggie05 • 6:55p, 2/10/24
AG
Appreciate the comparison of int'l premium economy to domestic first, and good suggestion on utilizing lounge access on arrival.
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Danger Mouse
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9:04p, 2/10/24
AG
The cabin configuration is a factor of the plane manufacturer. They are proprietary, and thus different in some regards.
Class of '91 (MEEN)
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HollywoodBQ
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7:44a, 2/11/24
AG
I've done Business Class long hauls (14-19 hour long flights) on Singapore, Emirates, Etihad, Qantas, Air New Zealand, American, United, Delta.

Also used the lounges of Lufthansa, ANA, JAL.

As described, the Asian carriers are far superior on the service and especially attitude of the in flight air staff. Nevermind the age and appearance.

I've flown long haul Business on the A330, A350, A380, 747, 777, 787. There can be some seating differences between carriers. Check out seatguru.

I prefer the face forward or backward but straight seats versus the angled mummy sleeping bag style pods.

I'm 6'3" so there were a few of the lie flat configurations where I could never get totally flat.

I've never flown Qatar but I've heard a lot of good things about them.

As far as an extra $1500/ticket, I guess that depends on who is paying. That's a pretty high hourly rate, especially if you're going in group.

Where in India are you going?
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OilManAg91
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In reply to Stat Monitor Repairman • 7:57a, 2/11/24
AG
Stat Monitor Repairman said:
Quote:
- are the US carriers that far behind the global norm?
Yes, US carriers are ass when it comes to long haul. The union flight attendants on those routes have seniority and are senior citizens with a bad attitude that should've retired a decade or more ago. By far the laziest, slowest and fattest people working in the service industry today. Any international carrier is a better experience.
Recently flew home from Middle East on Emirates in business class…week prior flew over on Qatar in Q suites. I've been on just about every configuration going each way. I also 10,000% agree with the above comment. Business class in US and EU carriers are at least a couple levels below all the ME airlines. And usually the fare on US carriers is higher than ME carriers. I would like to fly to ME on United just to help rack up the miles but it's like they have thrown in the towel because they know that they can't compete as their route schedule is very inconvenient, their prices are higher and their food service is really low quality.

I would rate in this order for business class:

Qatar > Emirates (A380) > Etihad > Oman Air > Gulf Air >>> Turkish >>>>>> (American, United, BA, KLM, etc)
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Matsui
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In reply to esd19 • 12:14p, 2/11/24
AG
Premium economy
On American is no where close to business on American
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Matsui
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In reply to MAROON • 12:15p, 2/11/24
AG
Baller
! Curious how much are those tickets
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akaggie05
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In reply to Danger Mouse • 1:06p, 2/11/24
AG
Danger Mouse said:
The cabin configuration is a factor of the plane manufacturer. They are proprietary, and thus different in some regards.


The sky is pretty much the limit on what the airlines want to do in terms of interior configuration, and it isn't set by the aircraft OEM. Most seats and interior fitments are made by companies like Zodiac and B/E Aerospace, who often work directly with the airlines on new designs that will bolt up to existing seat tracks and support structure present on the aircraft.
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scd88
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1:44p, 2/11/24
AG
Next question is when to book. There are fewer seats than economy, so waiting until the summer won't work.
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Danger Mouse
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In reply to akaggie05 • 2:01p, 2/11/24
AG
True in large part. I have an intimate knowledge of this based on my professional career.
Class of '91 (MEEN)
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HollywoodBQ
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In reply to akaggie05 • 9:11p, 2/11/24
AG
akaggie05 said:
The sky is pretty much the limit on what the airlines want to do in terms of interior configuration, and it isn't set by the aircraft OEM. Most seats and interior fitments are made by companies like Zodiac and B/E Aerospace, who often work directly with the airlines on new designs that will bolt up to existing seat tracks and support structure present on the aircraft.
After Qantas rollout of the A380 in 2009, everybody loved the seats so much that in the mid-2010s, they retrofitted their 747s with the same seats as the A380s and called it "The A380 Experience".

They were phasing out the 747s by 2020 but Covid killed them off completely.

My last 747 Business Class ride was in September 2019 on a redeye from Perth to Sydney.

It was really sad to drive by and see the last 3 Qantas 747s parked in Mojave, CA since 2020.
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Jetpilot86
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In reply to HollywoodBQ • 9:29p, 2/11/24
AG
HollywoodBQ said:
akaggie05 said:
The sky is pretty much the limit on what the airlines want to do in terms of interior configuration, and it isn't set by the aircraft OEM. Most seats and interior fitments are made by companies like Zodiac and B/E Aerospace, who often work directly with the airlines on new designs that will bolt up to existing seat tracks and support structure present on the aircraft.
After Qantas rollout of the A380 in 2009, everybody loved the seats so much that in the mid-2010s, they retrofitted their 747s with the same seats as the A380s and called it "The A380 Experience".

They were phasing out the 747s by 2020 but Covid killed them off completely.

My last 747 Business Class ride was in September 2019 on a redeye from Perth to Sydney.

It was really sad to drive by and see the last 3 Qantas 747s parked in Mojave, CA since 2020.


Odds are I'll fly them before I retire. They'll just be 6 seaters. Were they 400's or -8's?
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HollywoodBQ
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In reply to Jetpilot86 • 9:49a, 2/12/24
AG
Jetpilot86 said:
HollywoodBQ said:
akaggie05 said:
The sky is pretty much the limit on what the airlines want to do in terms of interior configuration, and it isn't set by the aircraft OEM. Most seats and interior fitments are made by companies like Zodiac and B/E Aerospace, who often work directly with the airlines on new designs that will bolt up to existing seat tracks and support structure present on the aircraft.
After Qantas rollout of the A380 in 2009, everybody loved the seats so much that in the mid-2010s, they retrofitted their 747s with the same seats as the A380s and called it "The A380 Experience".

They were phasing out the 747s by 2020 but Covid killed them off completely.

My last 747 Business Class ride was in September 2019 on a redeye from Perth to Sydney.

It was really sad to drive by and see the last 3 Qantas 747s parked in Mojave, CA since 2020.
Odds are I'll fly them before I retire. They'll just be 6 seaters. Were they 400's or -8's?
The Qantas 747s were 400s and some of them had Rolls Royce engines. I think the last few might have had GE engines.
I think Lufthansa is about the only carrier who bought the 747-8 for passenger service.

Apparently one of the Qantas 747s was brought out of retirement for use as a Cargo Freighter with Kalitta. Which explains why I only saw 3 of them the last time I was in Mojave instead of the 4 that were parked there in 2020.
https://australianaviation.com.au/2022/06/resurrected-qantas-last-747-flies-out-of-boneyard/

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Jetpilot86
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In reply to HollywoodBQ • 9:51a, 2/12/24
AG
I was thinking they were 400's. Actually have flown on the Lufthansa -8's. There's not many running around with seats on the main deck.
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MAROON
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In reply to HollywoodBQ • 11:12a, 2/12/24
AG
flew the top deck in 747's a few times from LA To Tokyo and then I think also SF to Tokyo. Northwest Airlines if I remember. While the seats are nowhere near what you can have today, it was like flying in a private jet with just those few passengers in the top deck. Loved every minute of it.
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HollywoodBQ
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In reply to MAROON • 1:42p, 2/12/24
AG
That was the cool part about the Upper Deck Business Class on the 747, you're up there with maybe 24 people and you've got your own staff, restrooms, etc. It's like you're not even in the same aircraft with the other 300+ people on the main deck.

A similar experience can be had on Singapore Airlines and Qantas at the back of the Upper Deck on the A380 where they've got an Economy section that only holds 40 people or so. Again, isolated from Business Class and from the main deck, you've got your own air staff and restrooms.

And should you ever get on the Korean Airlines A380, they've got a full on Duty Free store at the rear of the Economy Class section.
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HollywoodBQ
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In reply to esd19 • 1:47p, 2/12/24
AG
For the OP, where are you going in India?
Not every airline flies everywhere nonstop or with reasonable connections.

When I used to go to Bangalore a lot, Singapore Airlines was very convenient. But, for Mumbai or Dehli, Qantas or even Air India sometimes had better options. When I went to Goa, the easiest way to get there was via Mumbai.
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esd19
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In reply to HollywoodBQ • 7:13p, 2/12/24
AG
Not set in stone, but will be all over.

Most likely will fly into Delhi and do the whole Agra & Jaipur thing from there. Selfishly doing that on the front end to get it out of the way. I have no desire to do Agra/Taj as I've done it before and I think that's the filthiest part of the country; however, my wife has never been.

Will follow that with family time in Gujarat, then finishing out the trip with family friends in Mumbai and fly back to US from there. Will likely do my domestic travel via IndiGo.
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HollywoodBQ
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In reply to esd19 • 9:43a, 2/13/24
AG
So going in to Delhi and out from Mumbai.

Checking flightconnetions.com, looks like Air India has a nonstop from Mumbai to SFO or JFK, and United flies daily to Newark (EWR).

Delhi, has Air India nonstops to SFO and Vancouver (YVR). Starting in March, United flies daily to SFO.

Both Delhi and Mumbai have flights that hit all the major European and Asian hubs.

When I used to bring guys into Bangalore, I think the only European carriers offering nonstops to Europe were Air France and Lufthansa and they departed BLR at like 3:30 am.

Sounds like you're cool with connecting through the Middle East on the Gulf carriers so, I'd do that.
Unless you really feel like using the 19 hour nonstop on Singapore Airlines from LAX to Singapore.
It's a lot of travel time in the air no matter how you cut it.

Just don't torture yourself on United Airlines or Air India.
Sounds like you've got the internal to India travel covered on IndiGo or Spicejet or whoever.
Good Luck!
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htxag09
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9:46a, 2/13/24
AG
I don't have the long haul experience a lot on here have, but have flown first class in Emirates (not suites) a couple times and Polaris class to and back from Sydney. I was really impressed by the Polaris class and the Polaris lounge in Houston. Food was good for airplane food, nothing to write home about but not bad. Service was fine, don't remember having any complaints. But I just found the seats and the overall experience very comfortable. So kind of surprised by all the negativity towards them....
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ktownag08
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12:56p, 2/13/24
AG
I've done long haul business in United, Turkish, and Lufthansa.

Turkish was a really good experience overall. Good soft product, lounge in Istanbul was incredible, and hard product pretty good too.

I did United Polaris recently, and it was pretty solid. Plenty of privacy, comfy seat/bed, decent food, and wine list was good. Having the ice cream sundaes back was really nice as well. I had good flight attendants as well which can really make or break the experience.

Lufthansa was my least favorite, but that was a while ago when they didn't have the full lay flat product. It got you most of the way there, but was weird.

I do premium economy on the way back to US if a day time flight now, and it's a good option for more comfortable seat, better food, and better drink.
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AustinScubaAg
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In reply to esd19 • 3:56p, 2/13/24
AG
esd19 said:
Not set in stone, but will be all over.

Most likely will fly into Delhi and do the whole Agra & Jaipur thing from there. Selfishly doing that on the front end to get it out of the way. I have no desire to do Agra/Taj as I've done it before and I think that's the filthiest part of the country; however, my wife has never been.

Will follow that with family time in Gujarat, then finishing out the trip with family friends in Mumbai and fly back to US from there. Will likely do my domestic travel via IndiGo.


Be warned the connection process in mumbai is a disaster. Last time the only option was to take a cab and it took almost 1.5 hours to change terminals.
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AustinScubaAg
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4:05p, 2/13/24
AG
I have done

Qatar qsuite
United polaris
American
British
Eva
JAL
Cathay
Quantas
China Airline (tiawan carrier not air china)

The most comfortable ironically was AA because they added a memory foam topper.

UA polaris stopped providing their topper and their seats are basically the same comfort as other carriers. Plus the flight attendants were just awful.
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HollywoodBQ
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In reply to AustinScubaAg • 5:08p, 2/13/24
AG
AustinScubaAg said:
esd19 said:
Not set in stone, but will be all over.

Most likely will fly into Delhi and do the whole Agra & Jaipur thing from there. Selfishly doing that on the front end to get it out of the way. I have no desire to do Agra/Taj as I've done it before and I think that's the filthiest part of the country; however, my wife has never been.

Will follow that with family time in Gujarat, then finishing out the trip with family friends in Mumbai and fly back to US from there. Will likely do my domestic travel via IndiGo.
Be warned the connection process in mumbai is a disaster. Last time the only option was to take a cab and it took almost 1.5 hours to change terminals.
I was thinking about this and then I realized that both times I connected between International and Domestic in Mumbai, I spent the night in Mumbai so I didn't go directly from one to the other. I left the airport and came back.

For the OP, if you stayover in Mumbai, you must take a walk down Marine Drive. It's very busy at night.
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HollywoodBQ
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In reply to AustinScubaAg • 5:13p, 2/13/24
AG
AustinScubaAg said:
Quantas
Please allow me to help:

Queensland
And
Northern
Territory
Air
Service

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esd19
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3:42p, 2/14/24
AG
Anyone ever book with an agency that specializes in premium travel, or do you always book thru the airline?

I may book one ticket with points, but will need to buy in cash for the other. The online reviews are mixed regarding agencies. Didn't know if anyone with personal experience could share.
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Hoyt Ag
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In reply to esd19 • 7:19a, 2/15/24
AG
I am to the point I will only book directly with the airline, or through Ultimate Rewards when using points. I will not use other sites based on experiences in dealing with customer service when things go wrong.
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tmtxco
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8:11a, 2/15/24
AG
Google Flights is how I find all of my cash flights, then I book directly with the airline rather than saving a few bucks with a 3rd party. As Hoyt Ag mentioned, it can be a real headache when something goes wrong and you are having to deal with middle people instead of the airline directly.

Paying a company to help with points bookings can sometimes be worth it if you aren't familiar with all of the rewards search tools. If you have points at Chase Ultimate Rewards, for example, the same exact United-operated business class flight for 150k points/ticket booked with United points might be only 87.5k points at Air Canada (a Star Alliance partner). It can be worth a few hundred bucks for someone to help you find the best reward flights and walk you through making the booking yourself if it can save you a ton of points.
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Danger Mouse
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In reply to Hoyt Ag • 8:43a, 2/15/24
AG
Hoyt Ag said:
I am to the point I will only book directly with the airline, or through Ultimate Rewards when using points. I will not use other sites based on experiences in dealing with customer service when things go wrong.
This. Any 3rd party agency will likely use the same platforms that any customer has access to when booking a flight and searching for deals. Cut out the middle man and save money in the process. It can also become a source of problems should things go wrong with the reservation.
Class of '91 (MEEN)
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