Whirligigs said:

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Guns are better - you can shoot the neighbor and take his gold

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I agree, in fact I'd argue that the threat of violence IF YOU DONT TAKE SHINY METAL is the real value behind gold.

Don't derail, we are talking specifically about gold in this thread, which is why I made a specific thread to not derail the crypto thread on PM's. Thanks and gigem.

I'm not saying exposing yourself to x% of any form of risk diversification is wrong/right/etc.

I'm just curious since the common meme is that "Gold has always been valuable" (except in South American indigenous civilizations prior to Spain and Portugal) how that value is attained.

If there isn't a final arbiter of gold settling for violence/food then is it really valued? I'd say the jewelry argument is the same as the art argument. That people love collecting baubles, and kings were the final arbiter conveying violence for trade/etc.

If a knight gave a peasant a gold coin, they wouldn't have means to use the coin before being killed over it since there wasn't a market for gold in their caste, for example.

Similarly giving a school of African children really great soccer shoes would be a death warrant to those children.

I'd also argue that the greater amount of gold hoarded the more power that must be conveyed to avoid violence. I'd be curious what anyone thinks of that statement. For each oz of gold how much violence you must project to protect said gold stores.

Come on man they used all the time, wenches and wine.

My financial collapse/insurance portfolio:

cash (in my possession)
silver (in my possession)
gold (a small amount, in my possession)

mwp02ag said:

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Gold will have zero value in The Walking Dead world. Gold has massive value if you're going through regime/financial system change. I'm not too worried about the former but the latter is a growing probability here. 10% of your portfolio to PM seems like cheap insurance to me.

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I like this distinction. In a true apocalyptic scenario, gold is worthless.

Very few people are even going to have any to use. Most of the world's gold reserves are locked away in storage by governments. So unless you are nearby one of these storage facilities and have the means to take it without dying when the SHTF then you'll never see any.

I would say that in a post-apocalyptic world, gold's utility would be primarily as an alternative to strict barter. If I have no good or service to offer in exchange for what you have and what I want/need, there needs to be some alternative or the transaction won't occur. History has shown us that gold is more durable over time as a medium of exchange as compared to sea shells, salt, or cattle, which have all been used as a medium of exchange at some point in the past.

Why has gold been resilient as a form of money over time? You know this, AE, but its resistance to corrosion and rot give it greater durability versus alternative monies, i.e. paper notes. It is also relatively scarce and it is recognizable almost everywhere. In a post-apocalypse world, where fiat currency has zero credibility meaning it will not be accepted as a medium of exchange, SOMETHING has to stand in place to serve as money in lieu of barter and PMs fill that role, especially gold for transactions that have greater value. There are obvious shortcomings but if we are looking at your scenario, where everything is burning down across the globe, and there is still a need for money, then gold is a legitimate alternative.

Dr. Doctor said:

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In a true apocalyptic aftermath, gold is honestly worthless. It heavy, so you aren't carrying it around much.

Ammo and guns are helpful, but the one thing that'll matter the most is antibiotics.

If you've had kids, think how quickly some come on. Can get the fever down or stop pooping? You'll either get brain damage or die of dehydration.

Gold can pay for someone to help, but, IMHO, the real "gold" will be medicines that last or knowing how to make them. Assuming you don't have skills that are needed, like farming, building, repairs, etc.

~egon

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I tend to agree. The more I think about it the only true hedge against this scenario is having a stockpile of nonperishable (really long shelf life) food. That and good water filtration, guns, ammo, and medicine.

NoahAg said:

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Dr. Doctor said:

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In a true apocalyptic aftermath, gold is honestly worthless. It heavy, so you aren't carrying it around much.

Ammo and guns are helpful, but the one thing that'll matter the most is antibiotics.

If you've had kids, think how quickly some come on. Can get the fever down or stop pooping? You'll either get brain damage or die of dehydration.

Gold can pay for someone to help, but, IMHO, the real "gold" will be medicines that last or knowing how to make them. Assuming you don't have skills that are needed, like farming, building, repairs, etc.

~egon

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I tend to agree. The more I think about it the only true hedge against this scenario is having a stockpile of nonperishable (really long shelf life) food. That and good water filtration, guns, ammo, and medicine.

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About 8 years ago I wanted to gain more knowledge in herbology, ended up fascinated with mycology, need to stop studying and invest in equipment and exercise the muscle memory instead of overinvesting in knowledge. I've gotten to be decent at foraging and identification but want to get better at extraction and build an herbal medicine cabinet of sorts.

I've got this unfleshed out theory that humanity will trend towards Global guilds with specialized knowledges and tokens signifying different levels of skilks/knowledge/credibility/creditability. Probably from the nonsensical short stories I've consumed over the years.

I'd love to chat more about this. Don't you have a discord channel or something I can reach you on?

NoahAg said:

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Dr. Doctor said:

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In a true apocalyptic aftermath, gold is honestly worthless. It heavy, so you aren't carrying it around much.

Ammo and guns are helpful, but the one thing that'll matter the most is antibiotics.

If you've had kids, think how quickly some come on. Can get the fever down or stop pooping? You'll either get brain damage or die of dehydration.

Gold can pay for someone to help, but, IMHO, the real "gold" will be medicines that last or knowing how to make them. Assuming you don't have skills that are needed, like farming, building, repairs, etc.

~egon

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I tend to agree. The more I think about it the only true hedge against this scenario is having a stockpile of nonperishable (really long shelf life) food. That and good water filtration, guns, ammo, and medicine.

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I think the problem here is that people have different conceptions of post-apocalyptic period. Like are we talking 5 months after an event or 10 years?

In the short term, only things with utility have value. However, once you get past the shock of survival, the need for exchange of goods kicks in. And then you need a means of exchange. Then you have the pareto distribution and boom. Accumulation of wealth occurs again.

The Debt said:

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NoahAg said:

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Dr. Doctor said:

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In a true apocalyptic aftermath, gold is honestly worthless. It heavy, so you aren't carrying it around much.

Ammo and guns are helpful, but the one thing that'll matter the most is antibiotics.

If you've had kids, think how quickly some come on. Can get the fever down or stop pooping? You'll either get brain damage or die of dehydration.

Gold can pay for someone to help, but, IMHO, the real "gold" will be medicines that last or knowing how to make them. Assuming you don't have skills that are needed, like farming, building, repairs, etc.

~egon

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I tend to agree. The more I think about it the only true hedge against this scenario is having a stockpile of nonperishable (really long shelf life) food. That and good water filtration, guns, ammo, and medicine.

---

I think the problem here is that people have different conceptions of post-apocalyptic period. Like are we talking 5 months after an event or 10 years?

In the short term, only things with utility have value. However, once you get past the shock of survival, the need for exchange of goods kicks in. And then you need a means of exchange. Then you have the pareto distribution and boom. Accumulation of wealth occurs again.

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Yep, I had this typed out too because I started arguing with myself internally about it. I was originally thinking there isn't enough gold floating around to make it work anymore since the govt has most of it. However, there would be such a die off through chaos, murder, disease, destruction, suicide, etc that problem would take care of itself until such time we repopulated and advanced back to the point that governments start issuing fiat again and start the cycle over.

We live in the Matrix. Lol.

I've got this unfleshed out theory that humanity will trend towards Global guilds with specialized knowledges and tokens signifying different levels of skilks/knowledge/credibility/creditability. Probably from the nonsensical short stories I've consumed over the years.

Sounds like a diploma to me.

Shoot me an email

Cryptohemp at gmail.com

I think diplomas were originally designed for the same purpose, but I think the centralized nature of the diploma mills significantly deteriorated the perceived and actual value of said diploma.

And I'd rather have the knowledge seeker funded by said guild after aptitude is proven through years of apprenticeships instead of public education system bull****ery.

Adverse Event said:

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Shoot me an email

Cryptohemp at gmail.com

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that email address

Lol, yeah it's a constant reminder not to sell my bitcoin/crypto to get into hemp, again. It's also where all my junk mail points towards

Analog is more resilient than Digital.

Everything else is propaganda.

lol, got it down man.

Coming back around to this one because I think it's an interesting conversation to have.

Couple of items that I think impact the discussion. First, what is the definition of apocalypse in this scenario? For some, taking away their x-box is apocalyptic. For this discussion, what are you defining as the apocalypse? I think that has some impact on the debate.

Second, and this is probably assumed in the original post and by everyone who's commented since but trying to predict human behavior is pretty freaking tough. If society/civilization has burned to the ground and humans are picking up from a point of almost zero infrastructure, no civil society, no communication, etc., then trying to predict what would serve as money is a fools errand. In that scenario, the means of exchange are going to be extremely rudimentary and more likely be a strict barter system. This will persist until some structure returns, at which point a serious contemplation of money can occur.

So, in worst case scenarios, gold will have no value as a form of money, but it is arguable that nothing else will, either. We will live in a world of barter until a point in time when structure, stability and society begin to return.