Forced Resignation + Severance

13,993 Views | 89 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by AgLA06
A is A
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5:06p, 6/6/23
AG
Just a quick survey (happy to go into detail if gets traction).

Essentially told I have to leave and find a job back in December No issues with performance, just company is on the downslope and cannot afford me. Company will not fire me, though, and will not give me a hard end date. Question: Is it unreasonable to ask, for a severance package once I find a new job.

On top of that - for those that run companies - how often do you pay Severance?
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Keeper of The Spirits
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5:15p, 6/6/23
AG
They don't want to pay unemployment. I'd ask for severance and if they deny, silently quit as long as you can get away with it

Everyone gets a a few weeks to months from us
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BenTheGoodAg
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In reply to Keeper of The Spirits • 5:40p, 6/6/23
AG
Keeper of The Spirits said:
They don't want to pay unemployment.


Dang. If true, that's super ****ty.
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Keeper of The Spirits
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5:42p, 6/6/23
AG
They will inevitably decide unemployment is worth it or drum up a reason and you may get wind they want to try to fire you within cause. At which point get serious about job hunting and if you really want to extract your pound of flesh blow the whistle on any unethical behavior you see. That will buy you a few more weeks to months

Severance is usually to buy out your unemployment claim
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Casey TableTennis
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In reply to A is A • 6:39p, 6/6/23
AG
A is A said:
Just a quick survey (happy to go into detail if gets traction).

Essentially told I have to leave and find a job back in December No issues with performance, just company is on the downslope and cannot afford me. Company will not fire me, though, and will not give me a hard end date. Question: Is it unreasonable to ask, for a severance package once I find a new job.

On top of that - for those that run companies - how often do you pay Severance?
Are you able to openly look for a the next job, including at competitors? Can you do so within reason during normal business hours? Will you be subject to a non-compete?

If these are all favorable to you, seems they are just being kind and giving you plenty of time to get organized and move on.
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Definitely Not A Cop
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7:02p, 6/6/23
AG
You found yourself a real life Milton situation my friend. Congratulations!

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AggieMainland
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7:41p, 6/6/23
Not unreasonable to ask. Which doesn't mean you'll get it.
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Keeper of The Spirits
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In reply to Casey TableTennis • 7:45p, 6/6/23
AG
How big is the company? If over 200 they are never being kind.


If you have is a non compete definitely don't quit without severance or written release from non compete. Severance should be enough to cover the term of the non compete if enforced
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MS08
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8:29p, 6/6/23
AG
Just to understand the timing at play because there might be a type-o: they recently told you that you will have to leave by/in December of '23? Or they told you in December of '22 about this and it's starting to come to a head so you are now posting about it looking for thoughts?

If the former, then a very reasonable and generous heads up.
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A is A
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In reply to Casey TableTennis • 8:37p, 6/6/23
AG
Casey TableTennis said:
A is A said:
Just a quick survey (happy to go into detail if gets traction).

Essentially told I have to leave and find a job back in December No issues with performance, just company is on the downslope and cannot afford me. Company will not fire me, though, and will not give me a hard end date. Question: Is it unreasonable to ask, for a severance package once I find a new job.

On top of that - for those that run companies - how often do you pay Severance?
Are you able to openly look for a the next job, including at competitors? Can you do so within reason during normal business hours? Will you be subject to a non-compete?

If these are all favorable to you, seems they are just being kind and giving you plenty of time to get organized and move on.

Are you able to openly look for a the next job, including at competitors?
Until recently I was working 80+ hour weeks/weekends on a large cross-functional project. Finding the next job is not the issue, I'll find one quickly. It's more about treatment after I tell them I have a job. Again, I wouldn't be leaving if they were forcing me.
ETA: its roughly 80hrs due to are aggressive downsize, I have assumed the role of two other ex-members of our team. it's been this way since late 2019. Again, love the work that I do and the people (having second guesses on that people part now )

If these are all favorable to you, seems they are just being kind and giving you plenty of time to get organized and move on.
Normally I'd agree with you, but having spent nearly a decade there, and worked on nearly 100+ terminations, I know the payout schedule for terminated employees. They are trying to force me to resign so they do not have to follow their standard practice.
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A is A
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In reply to MS08 • 8:48p, 6/6/23
AG
MS08 said:
Just to understand the timing at play because there might be a type-o: they recently told you that you will have to leave by/in December of '23? Or they told you in December of '22 about this and it's starting to come to a head so you are now posting about it looking for thoughts?

If the former, then a very reasonable and generous heads up.
In December 22 they told me "sometime in June-ish". Never really gave me a firm date. Every month I have call with the managing director about what does "June-ish" mean? They've said that my working there since I was told I have to leave counts as my severance. I told them that's bull****, that is me earning a salary.

Anyway - our firm standard is to pay severance when fired/terminated. Just wondering y'alls thought when the firm is strong arming you into resigning.
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MS08
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In reply to A is A • 8:53p, 6/6/23
AG
A is A said:
MS08 said:
Just to understand the timing at play because there might be a type-o: they recently told you that you will have to leave by/in December of '23? Or they told you in December of '22 about this and it's starting to come to a head so you are now posting about it looking for thoughts?

If the former, then a very reasonable and generous heads up.
In December 22 they told me "sometime in June-ish". Never really gave me a firm date. Every month I have call with the managing director about what does "June-ish" mean? They've said that my working there since I was told I have to leave counts as my severance. I told them that's bull****, that is me earning a salary.

Anyway - our firm standard is to pay severance when fired/terminated. Just wondering y'alls thought when the firm is strong arming you into resigning.


Agree. You working there is not severance. That is you earning it and sounds like you are working like a dog. So that's exactly what you said it is, B.S.

If that is your firm standard then pursue that. Appears that you are a workhorse for them so you should be granted the company standard, at minimum.
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Aggie09Derek
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In reply to A is A • 9:04p, 6/6/23
AG
Hopefully you are getting paid commensurate to the work you are doing (3 people's jobs).
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Casey TableTennis
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In reply to A is A • 10:58p, 6/6/23
AG
If you are doing 3 people's jobs, you not being there is more costly to them than your wage and/or severance. Is the company hurting so bad they have to make tough decisions? Either way, seems like a company worth leaving as quick as you can. They either don't see your value or are on a bad bad path…maybe both.

Sincerely hope you get what you are deserving of, but don't see why that inherently means a severance should be earned, if you find employment before they terminate you.

In any event, the spot you are in sucks. Have been in limbo before. Feels like a giant game of chicken. Good luck.
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A is A
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9:00a, 6/7/23
AG
Thanks all for the feedback. It's been hard over the last year or so to look while working these long hours. Have not been truly compensated rightly by it which is why I asked for the severance. Really did everything in my power to keep the company chugging along while we went through a drastic downsize by reducing costs whenever and wherever.

I was just shocked when I was told just the other day that how the company does severance and leave, that policy had changed "recently".

Either way. I have my final call with HR, Legal, and my manager in a few days. Will post back here the fireworks that ensued.
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MS08
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9:43a, 6/7/23
AG
Keep your head up OP! Greener pastures await!
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CapCity12thMan
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8:58a, 6/8/23
AG
if you like what you do - working 80+ hours and doing the work of 3 (can't imagine that is very rewarding, IMHO), them saying anything 6 months ago sounds like a weak threat to see how you would react. Like I said - if you are happy, then keep doing what you are doing. If they really want you gone they'll let you go

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aggie_wes
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11:07a, 6/8/23
AG
Make them an offer. Something like 3 months pay, release from any non-compete and you'll be gone whenever they want. Or maybe 6 months pay and keep the non-compete. It'll be much easier to find a job when you're not working 80 hour weeks.
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Tumble Weed
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11:22a, 6/8/23
I want one month severance for each year worked.

How many months severance do you think you are entitled to? I would try to negotiate it.

Neither side wants to really deal with unemployment.

The state has policies that protect the workers. I would remind them that state law overrides company policy.
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cjo03
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11:26a, 6/9/23
AG
varies a lot by company policy and by state.. in tx you can still get unemployment at end of severance period as long as you didn't quit or get fired for misconduct (link)

one option is to go back to working 40 hours a week for as long as they'll keep you on and use the other 40 hours to find your next gig. continuing to work /= severance.

in my experience, successful severance negotiation outside company practice is an exception. that being said, what you've share here isn't normal and feels like an exception situation.
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Keeper of The Spirits
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11:28a, 6/9/23
AG
If you are over 40 the game changes a little bit too
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infinity ag
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In reply to BenTheGoodAg • 2:57p, 6/9/23
BenTheGoodAg said:
Keeper of The Spirits said:
They don't want to pay unemployment.


Dang. If true, that's super ****ty.

Newsflash: Companies are sheety. People are just "resources" to a company.
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Comeby!
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5:59p, 6/9/23
AG
They are basically getting free work out of you with that setup. If they let you go now, they likely pay you 6 months of severance for a release. The way they've pitched it, they pay the same 6 months but you show up for work until December.
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A is A
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7:49p, 6/9/23
AG
Well end of day Friday and my "we'll talk tomorrow" on Tuesday has turned into radio silence. I'm hopeful they took my issue to heart and are discuss it at the board.

I've pitched 6 months, 3 months, even 2 weeks per year worked (18 weeks). The 80+ hasn't been bad. I've learned a lot and it's really only been hard when work spilled into the weekend.

We'll see if something happens next week
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A is A
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In reply to Tumble Weed • 7:49p, 6/9/23
AG
Tumble Weed said:
I want one month severance for each year worked.

How many months severance do you think you are entitled to? I would try to negotiate it.

Neither side wants to really deal with unemployment.

The state has policies that protect the workers. I would remind them that state law overrides company policy.


What state law are you referring to?
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Aggie09Derek
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In reply to A is A • 7:56p, 6/9/23
AG
You have a family?
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Daytona22
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In reply to A is A • 8:49p, 6/9/23
AG
Are you salaried? If so, they're getting the most out of you staying and continuing to work 80+ hours. IMO they're not treating you right if they're trying to get you to leave on your own accord.
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Buck Compton
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In reply to A is A • 10:41p, 6/9/23
AG
A is A said:
Well end of day Friday and my "we'll talk tomorrow" on Tuesday has turned into radio silence. I'm hopeful they took my issue to heart and are discuss it at the board.

I've pitched 6 months, 3 months, even 2 weeks per year worked (18 weeks). The 80+ hasn't been bad. I've learned a lot and it's really only been hard when work spilled into the weekend.

We'll see if something happens next week
I'm sorry, you aren't really working 80+ per week without it spilling into the weekend. 8am to Midnight, M-FR, working with no breaks = 80 hours a week.
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AgsMyDude
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In reply to Keeper of The Spirits • 6:40a, 6/10/23
AG
Keeper of The Spirits said:
If you are over 40 the game changes a little bit too


Mind elaborating?
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fka ftc
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In reply to AgsMyDude • 7:45a, 6/10/23
I am going to assume the "over 40" is referring to a protected class. It was on my mind to ask that of the OP. Are they in one or more protected classes.

They may be trying to skirt a line of not paying severance but also not terminating a protected class employee. Not a wise move but if its HR driving any of it then wise move is not part of the vernacular.

Aside from that, its true employees are just resources to a company at the end of the day and if you are an employee the company you work for is just a paycheck. It's a business transaction like any other and the company and the individual have to come to an agreement on what the specifics of that transaction are.

For the OP, I would make an offer for what you want and tell them you are going to keep working until they meet that offer or terminate you. The company is 100% trying to take advantage of you either by being ignorant or by being cheap (or both).
"The absence of the word accountability is not the same as wanting no accountability" -unknown

"You can never go wrong by staying silent if there is nothing apt to say" -Walter Isaacson
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AgsMyDude
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In reply to fka ftc • 8:43a, 6/10/23
AG
Thanks! Not entirely sure what a protected class employee is

But your last paragraph is absolutely spot on and what I would do in that situation
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fka ftc
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In reply to AgsMyDude • 8:47a, 6/10/23
Protected class by EEOC classifications, one of which is "age" and specifically those over 40.

Anyone responsible for hiring / firing should always be cognizant of these classes.

Age:

https://www.eeoc.gov/age-discrimination

Other considerations:

https://www.eeoc.gov/discrimination-type
"The absence of the word accountability is not the same as wanting no accountability" -unknown

"You can never go wrong by staying silent if there is nothing apt to say" -Walter Isaacson
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Keeper of The Spirits
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8:56a, 6/10/23
AG
A good severance agreement from the company will include a protected class release. Otherwise you could take the severance and then still sue for discrimination if it had merit
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Buck Compton
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In reply to fka ftc • 8:56a, 6/10/23
AG
fka ftc said:
Protected class by EEOC classifications, one of which is "age" and specifically those over 40.

Anyone responsible for hiring / firing should always be cognizant of these classes.

Age:

https://www.eeoc.gov/age-discrimination

Other considerations:

https://www.eeoc.gov/discrimination-type
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AgsMyDude
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In reply to fka ftc • 9:00a, 6/10/23
AG
Awesome thanks for the info
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