"What are your salary expectations in terms of base pay and overall compensation "

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jagvocate
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10:14a, 8/30/23
AG
You: A multinational company looking to hire a seasoned professional to lead a team in a specialized field, and you have not posted a salary or even a range anywhere in the initial hiring process. Your headhunter reached out to me and convinced me, after 10 happy years with a company, to see what happens

Me: Not the best negotiator in the world but I know whoever throws out the first number usually never sees anything better

I know the question above is coming, probably in the HireVue, and I know what I'll likely say (I'm leaning towards not saying a number first -- "This is a position requiring a high level of professional knowledge and leadership ability, and for me to consider it, I'd need to see compensation that's very competitive within the [City] market for a [position]"

Anyone have a better applicant approach or response?

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agnerd
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10:25a, 8/30/23
AG
If they won't give me a salary, I like to nickel and dime them to death.

I need to make 20% more than my current salary. Then looking at houses, my current house in the new city near the office is $300k more than my current house. I'm not familiar with the schools, so I will need private tuition for the kids. Need to cover my wife's salary too since she will lose all her contacts, and travel to see family will be more expensive. I won't know anyone, so I'm going to need a country club membership to meet new golfing buddies. I was thinking (insert double my current salary here) might be enough to get me to leave my current company. And that's assuming your benefits are at least as good. I'm also going to have to start over with any vesting, seniority, and vacation so I'd expect that to be compensated in addition.
Oh you can't do that number? What number can you do? What benefits can you offer to make up the difference.
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10:26a, 8/30/23
htxag09
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In reply to jagvocate • 10:26a, 8/30/23
AG
jagvocate said:
You: A multinational company looking to hire a seasoned professional to lead a team in a specialized field, and you have not posted a salary or even a range anywhere in the initial hiring process. Your headhunter reached out to me and convinced me, after 10 happy years with a company, to see what happens

Me: Not the best negotiator in the world but I know whoever throws out the first number usually never sees anything better

I know the question above is coming, probably in the HireVue, and I know what I'll likely say (I'm leaning towards not saying a number first -- "This is a position requiring a high level of professional knowledge and leadership ability, and for me to consider it, I'd need to see compensation that's very competitive within the [City] market for a [position]"

Anyone have a better applicant approach or response?
I think a common misnomer is never throwing out the first number in all negotiation scenarios/tactics.

It's really dependent on a lot of factors, but all of them really boil down to what it would take for you to leave. Figure that out that internal number, research the market range for the position, can also research how they pay relative to their peers, and throw out an anchor that is at the high end of the market range and of course above your internal number. If you're extremely happy where you are, the anchor may higher than if you're unemployed or actively looking for a new position because you're miserable. As you said, they can negotiate down from that anchor but you'll likely not be able to negotiate up.

I'd rather them come back and say woah, we're not even in the same ballpark then waste my time and find out later they're going to lowball you.
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txaggieacct85
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10:35a, 8/30/23
AG
There used to be a guideline that it should take a 25% or more increase to leave a job assuming there's not extenuating circumstances.

If you want to avoid answering. could say something like.

" I'm sure you'll offer a competitive salary and compensation package that will be consistent with the requirements of the position. OR

How to Answer "What Are Your Salary Expectations?" (hbr.org)
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JDCAG (NOT Colin)
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10:36a, 8/30/23
AG
Assuming I was happy at my current place, I would throw out a number that would truly make me over the moon to take the new gig. If that shuts down the whole process, then it probably isn't going to be close enough to warrant the move and I don't want to find that out at the end.

The calculus would change if I was in a position I didn't like or feel solid about.
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Petrino1
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10:46a, 8/30/23
You can always ask if they have the salary range (and any extras like bonus, benefits, 401k etc) for this role during the call. If the recruiter refuses to give it, then just list a range that you would feel comfortable with leaving your current job.

Also, try to do some research about other similar jobs and how much they pay. You can look at job posting ranges, glassdoor, levels.fyi etc. You want to have as much information as possible before the call.
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Sims
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11:09a, 8/30/23
AG
I have no problem at all sharing my current comp. I usually add a list of things in the same conversation that I value in my current role that I may lose in the next - reporting structure leniency, autonomy, schedule flexibility - and I tell them these are things that I really value and I would certainly feel the need to be compensated if I risk losing them.
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birdman
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12:07p, 8/30/23
I assumed that when your company reached out to me that you had a number in mind. I can't imagine that you have a job without budget approval.
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permabull
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12:22p, 8/30/23
AG
If it's a large company you should be able to use Google to figure out the range they pay for that job. You give a number and that you would really want and if you are worried it's too high you can say you will evaluate any employment offer in its entirety (PTO, 401k, health insurance etc)
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TxAg20
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12:39p, 8/30/23
AG
Throw out a number that you would be happy to take the new job for after accounting for all monetary and non-monetary factors.

In specialized positions requiring a relocation, I've seen two people go through the process, and both got hired at their number which they were originally told was too high. Both felt interviews went well aside from compensation and were basically told "You sound great for the position, but your compensation expectation is well over our allowed range." Both were called back a couple of months later and offered the position at their compensation expectations. I don't know what happened on the other side in either scenario, but my assumption is that the hiring companies weren't able to find anyone qualified for the position within their budget, so they went back to their management and got budget approval for either the best qualified candidate, or the lowest compensation expectation for a qualified candidate.
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ATM9000
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1:18p, 8/30/23
AG
1. Never approach a job interview without a plan for yourself. One of the key parts to a plan is asking yourself what would it take for you to make a deal. You need to have a number and benefits in mind and not go in thinking you'll know it when you see it. That's how bad decisions and miscommunications happen with these things.

2. I work for a long multinational and hire people. When I'm hiring somebody, I do so much better if I'm given a number… because a number is directly actionable. HR might come back and say 'this person is out of range' and we think this is fair. But… if I've got a number, I can just go to my boss or their boss, right a note on the skillset which HR won't fully understand and why paying more is worth it and pretty much just get what you want.

What happens if I don't have a number is HR will put it in their machine, pretty much dictate this is what you can offer then as the hiring manager, I'm on my back foot. Everybody has bespoke skills that won't show up in HR general comps so pretty much every time it goes that route, I'm left offering somebody a disappointing number and nobody is happy.

This is not bashing HR… they are a control function and doing their job… this is also why THEY prefer to understand what it would take too.

3. Absolutely don't take the piss as agnerd is suggesting. That burns bridges and makes you look like an unserious person and ultimately lowers your value in a negotiation.
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JobSecurity
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3:01p, 8/30/23
AG
I'm a little surprised you made it that far without asking. The headhunter absolutely had a number or range. Just reach out to them again and ask?

Absent that it doesn't need to be a brain damage exercise - figure out what number makes sense for you to take that risk. Who cares what market is or what their structure is? If you're out of range they'll tell you and you wait for the next one.
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rodan85
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3:16p, 8/30/23
AG
My team is actively hiring and we did not know one candidate wanted 2X what the position pays until late in the process.

You need to make sure you are in the ballpark with salary before it progresses too far.
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62strat
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In reply to agnerd • 4:32p, 8/30/23
AG
agnerd said:

I Need to cover my wife's salary too since she will lose all her contacts,
you wife can sell scentsy anywhere.
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jagvocate
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7:08p, 8/30/23
AG
Thank you all for the great perspectives. I gave 'em a number and explained why it made sense.
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LMCane
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2:12p, 8/31/23
I don't agree with these answers above.

I have a 26 year career in legal compliance for corporations in the defense industry.

I have never told any of my various employers what I wanted in a salary.

they KNOW what my current salary is and we aren't wasting each other's time.

you should just let the HR person who is your intermediary POC know what your current salary is and listen to their offer.

if you prove your worth- they will give you a bonus and a pay raise in a year anyway.
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txaggieacct85
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In reply to LMCane • 2:31p, 8/31/23
AG
LMCane said:
I don't agree with these answers above.

I have a 26 year career in legal compliance for corporations in the defense industry.

I have never told any of my various employers what I wanted in a salary.

they KNOW what my current salary is and we aren't wasting each other's time.

you should just let the HR person who is your intermediary POC know what your current salary is and listen to their offer.

if you prove your worth- they will give you a bonus and a pay raise in a year anyway.
I specifically said this

"If you want to avoid answering. could say something like.

" I'm sure you'll offer a competitive salary and compensation package that will be consistent with the requirements of the position. OR"
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bmks270
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In reply to rodan85 • 3:07p, 8/31/23
AG
rodan85 said:
My team is actively hiring and we did not know one candidate wanted 2X what the position pays until late in the process.

You need to make sure you are in the ballpark with salary before it progresses too far.


Disagree.

You want to position yourself as the most desired candidate first, then negotiate.

Why would you start negotiating salary before you've gained any leverage as the most desired candidate?

Negotiate when your leverage is the highest which is after you've demonstrated you're the best candidate.
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Win At Life
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4:50p, 8/31/23
AG
When headhunters contact me, I tell them what it will take for me to make a move. That usually ends the call and they never call back.
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Petrino1
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In reply to bmks270 • 5:15p, 8/31/23
bmks270 said:
rodan85 said:
My team is actively hiring and we did not know one candidate wanted 2X what the position pays until late in the process.

You need to make sure you are in the ballpark with salary before it progresses too far.


Disagree.

You want to position yourself as the most desired candidate first, then negotiate.

Why would you start negotiating salary before you've gained any leverage as the most desired candidate?

Negotiate when your leverage is the highest which is after you've demonstrated you're the best candidate.
There's such a wide range in what companies pay these days, you at least want to make sure youre in the same ball park before wasting your time and effort in going through the interview process. I don't want to waste my time interviewing for a company only to find out theyre offering a lot less than what Im making now.

I did an initial phone interview with a company earlier this year, everything was going great, and then I brought up salary at the end since they didnt. I told them what I was making, and they told me that their max salary was like $40k less than what I was making. I thanked them for their time and said it wouldnt be a fit, and that was that.
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ATM9000
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In reply to Petrino1 • 12:35a, 9/1/23
AG
Petrino1 said:
bmks270 said:
rodan85 said:
My team is actively hiring and we did not know one candidate wanted 2X what the position pays until late in the process.

You need to make sure you are in the ballpark with salary before it progresses too far.


Disagree.

You want to position yourself as the most desired candidate first, then negotiate.

Why would you start negotiating salary before you've gained any leverage as the most desired candidate?

Negotiate when your leverage is the highest which is after you've demonstrated you're the best candidate.
There's such a wide range in what companies pay these days, you at least want to make sure youre in the same ball park before wasting your time and effort in going through the interview process. I don't want to waste my time interviewing for a company only to find out theyre offering a lot less than what Im making now.

I did an initial phone interview with a company earlier this year, everything was going great, and then I brought up salary at the end since they didnt. I told them what I was making, and they told me that their max salary was like $40k less than what I was making. I thanked them for their time and said it wouldnt be a fit, and that was that.
I thought they were giving you a massive raise but the sticking point in the negotiations was you had to have control of playcalling rather than your boss.
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ATM9000
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In reply to bmks270 • 12:50a, 9/1/23
AG
bmks270 said:
rodan85 said:
My team is actively hiring and we did not know one candidate wanted 2X what the position pays until late in the process.

You need to make sure you are in the ballpark with salary before it progresses too far.


Disagree.

You want to position yourself as the most desired candidate first, then negotiate.

Why would you start negotiating salary before you've gained any leverage as the most desired candidate?

Negotiate when your leverage is the highest which is after you've demonstrated you're the best candidate.

Apply this logic to a process like buying a home. You have no price indicators of a house, you just go around, tour houses and instead of knowing prices and budgets up front, you do that after you've narrowed it down to the house you want to negotiate for. Nobody in this thread would be on board with a process like this in your normal lives.

Does this help people understand why not being clear about ranges and expectations up front is a massive waste of time for not only the interviewers but probably you too? Similar to a home, your market value is based on your individual attributes rather than the job you currently do or want to do. In that vein, if you have zero intention in taking a pay cut under any circumstance, why would you think there's any benefit to not being up front about your expectations?
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CheeseSndwch
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9:09a, 9/1/23
Any headhunter/recruiter that won't give you a salary range upon request is wasting your time and banking on you accepting a below market/lackluster offer after you have endured multiple rounds of interviews due to the sunk cost fallacy.
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Decay
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5:43p, 9/1/23
AG
Counterpoint... Probably a rare one but whatever.

I interviewed with a big company and I'm in a bit of a niche field. I had a number and was ready to disclose but never needed to. The year one comp was salary only, no stock or bonus, and was still a 40% raise. Second year modeled out to damn near 100%. I had no idea what I was worth and neither did my previous employer. Somehow it worked out.

I doubt this is common and I got lucky as hell, but it was tough finding comp information for my skillset and see how it compared to other companies.
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Petrino1
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In reply to Decay • 6:28a, 9/2/23
Decay said:
Counterpoint... Probably a rare one but whatever.

I interviewed with a big company and I'm in a bit of a niche field. I had a number and was ready to disclose but never needed to. The year one comp was salary only, no stock or bonus, and was still a 40% raise. Second year modeled out to damn near 100%. I had no idea what I was worth and neither did my previous employer. Somehow it worked out.

I doubt this is common and I got lucky as hell, but it was tough finding comp information for my skillset and see how it compared to other companies.


That's awesome! And yes, it's always situational dependent. If I'm interviewing with Google or Exxon, then I'm pretty sure their salary ranges will be pretty high and I probably
won't need to discuss salary ahead of time. If I'm interviewing with a smaller privately held company I've never heard of, then for sure I'm going to bring up salary very early in the discussion.
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PDEMDHC
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In reply to JDCAG (NOT Colin) • 7:44a, 9/4/23
AG
JDCAG (NOT Colin) said:
Assuming I was happy at my current place, I would throw out a number that would truly make me over the moon to take the new gig. If that shuts down the whole process, then it probably isn't going to be close enough to warrant the move and I don't want to find that out at the end.

The calculus would change if I was in a position I didn't like or feel solid about.


Agree on this. Very happy where I am but wife is shifting to stay at home mom so don't mind being aggressive when someone approaches me. if you don't want to pay me a big jump from senior manager to associate/VP level… then I'm not listening.

All it takes is one… even if it's internal negotiations

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aggie_wes
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In reply to PDEMDHC • 9:29a, 9/4/23
AG
Agree on this situation. I'm giving out the "force me to make a move" number, which is basically VP or Director money with some perks.
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txaggie_08
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In reply to Petrino1 • 11:20a, 9/4/23
AG
Petrino1 said:
Decay said:
Counterpoint... Probably a rare one but whatever.

I interviewed with a big company and I'm in a bit of a niche field. I had a number and was ready to disclose but never needed to. The year one comp was salary only, no stock or bonus, and was still a 40% raise. Second year modeled out to damn near 100%. I had no idea what I was worth and neither did my previous employer. Somehow it worked out.

I doubt this is common and I got lucky as hell, but it was tough finding comp information for my skillset and see how it compared to other companies.


That's awesome! And yes, it's always situational dependent. If I'm interviewing with Google or Exxon, then I'm pretty sure their salary ranges will be pretty high and I probably
won't need to discuss salary ahead of time. If I'm interviewing with a smaller privately held company I've never heard of, then for sure I'm going to bring up salary very early in the discussion.

Not the best take. Those PE companies usually pay better with the risk of the company not being as sound long term as an Exxon or Amazon.
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Petrino1
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In reply to txaggie_08 • 1:41p, 9/4/23
txaggie_08 said:
Petrino1 said:
Decay said:
Counterpoint... Probably a rare one but whatever.

I interviewed with a big company and I'm in a bit of a niche field. I had a number and was ready to disclose but never needed to. The year one comp was salary only, no stock or bonus, and was still a 40% raise. Second year modeled out to damn near 100%. I had no idea what I was worth and neither did my previous employer. Somehow it worked out.

I doubt this is common and I got lucky as hell, but it was tough finding comp information for my skillset and see how it compared to other companies.


That's awesome! And yes, it's always situational dependent. If I'm interviewing with Google or Exxon, then I'm pretty sure their salary ranges will be pretty high and I probably
won't need to discuss salary ahead of time. If I'm interviewing with a smaller privately held company I've never heard of, then for sure I'm going to bring up salary very early in the discussion.

Not the best take. Those PE companies usually pay better with the risk of the company not being as sound long term as an Exxon or Amazon.
Not from my experience. Ive interviewed (and worked for) with a lot of random smaller, no name companies, and they typically dont pay better than the large fortune 100's. Im talking about smaller companies like a random manufacturing company in the middle of nowhere, not a PE firm in NYC who offers hefty bonuses and stock awards. Also, smaller tech start-ups typically dont pay as well as FAANG companies, they dont have the cash that larger companies do.

Of course, it always depends and I have seen smaller companies pay better than larger companies.
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