So I've had Bettencourt Tax Advisors since forever ago and I've never really had to pay them anything as nothing much changed. This year, however, they sent me a bill for "reduction of market value." The market value was 70k above what my max tax increased value was. They got my market value lowered 50k and they are billing me for it, even though I'm paying max tax increase. So they saved me $0 in taxes and they are charging me $122.

Am I crazy thinking this is ridiculous? Is this just the way the whole "fight your property taxes" grift works? Any recommendations different representation?

I can't remember the details but I got into it with Betancourt a few years ago. Similar to your situation, some phantom decrease on a property tax statement that yielded no decrease or savings on taxes resulted in a significant fee from Betancourt. I argued, logically I thought, but ultimately wound up paying it. My bill was more than yours. I think it is part of their business model.

If I lived in his district I wouldn't vote for him

Mostly b/c I paid them like $75 a few years back to represent me and my taxes never really seemed that out of line until these past few. I'd get notices that were basically, "we tried to lower your taxes but were unsuccessful." It didn't cost me anything so I didn't really worry about it.

I'm salty b/c I'm paying for a reduction of a "market value" not "appraised value" and market value will just get reassessed the next year anyways.

I posted to see if I'm salty for the right reasons or if I'm misunderstanding the value of this service.

How did you have no tax savings? Rates went down for 2023 AND the increased homestead exemption went into effect.

Heineken-Ashi said:

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How did you have no tax savings? Rates went down for 2023 AND the increased homestead exemption went into effect.

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Sorry - I had no tax savings in regards to what the tax guys did. My taxes overall are down a lot but the service provided by the tax lawyers wasn't the source of any of that.

I bleed maroon said:

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2. There are a few that charge a flat fee, but it sounds like you probably won't like this, either. I'm curious - do you expect them to work for free EVERY year?

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I dunno, the "you don't pay unless we save you money on your taxes" sales pitch implied something different from what I thought. It seems silly to pay them for lowering my "market value" this year when market value will just get recalculated again next year.

Maybe that's my real question: does a lowering of market value this year in any way reduce the calculation for market value in the future?

Furious said:

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I bleed maroon said:

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2. There are a few that charge a flat fee, but it sounds like you probably won't like this, either. I'm curious - do you expect them to work for free EVERY year?

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I dunno, the "you don't pay unless we save you money on your taxes" sales pitch implied something different from what I thought. It seems silly to pay them for lowering my "market value" this year when market value will just get recalculated again next year.

Maybe that's my real question: does a lowering of market value this year in any way reduce the calculation for market value in the future?

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Absolutely. And had you not lowered your market value, there's a good chance you'd be getting the auto 10% increase next year and hoping to God someone like Bettencourt could get it lowered.

Since values on Jan 1, 2024 should likely to remain flat or barely above 2023 (keyword should), there's a good chance that next year's protest will actually save you more since you likely won't be seeing the auto 10% increase in appraisal values.

My personal belief is property taxes are structured this way for a reason. The vast majority of residents don't understand them and that's a boon for the government. They can raise your value by 7 figures and all people see is the increase for this year. Not that it will be a max increase that exponentially raises their taxes over the next decade. Just from this year's impact, let alone next year starting from the new value.

It's also why it's getting harder and harder for those of us who get it to fight our taxes every year. People choose not to fight them because they don't see an instant benefit this year in an instant gratification society not understanding the mathematical flushing of cash down the toilet.

It literally took me putting together an excel spreadsheet of my dad's property taxes since they bought their current home in 2000 to now compared to if he protested it yearly to see how much more his home was valued at and how much more he's paid in taxes. Then he suddenly understood the importance.

Which is a shame because he's paying the same I am each year. Were 4 blocks a part. I bought at a price 3x what he did 15 years later with a bigger house. But I've fought them every year. He should be paying half or less pe year and that really adds up over the decades. Especially with him locking in next year. It was close to a $10k a year mistake for him going forward into retirement. Now imagine what it would mean to the average person on here buying in their 20s or 30s.

JDCAG (NOT Colin) said:

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It still provides value, just not immediately.

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I agree... I ran into a similar situation when I protested my own taxes a few years ago. The net result was basically nothing for that year but since I was able to convince them to lower the desirability of my house from "excellent" two steps down to "good", it has greatly slowed the rate of increase I was seeing before the protest.

correct. if your protest firm can argue down the "characteristic grades" of the home, that's a huge win.

I don't have much experience dealing with these firms, so can't speak to how often that happens.

My guess is that they're using market comps or U&E protests, as those are a lot easier to automate. Changing the grading actually takes effort and legwork.

I have Ownwell handle my protest request. Their fee is 25% of any property tax savings and nothing is owed if the protest is unsuccessful. Signing up was quick and easy.

If anyone decides to give them a shot use the following link and we'll both get a $20 credit:
https://www.ownwell.com/?owl=2EFAFZCAC

I think O'Connor and associates only charges if they actually save you money on your tax bill. So if they save you $100 they charge $50.

I switched from O'Connor to Ownwell a couple of year ago - the rate was agreeable at 25% and they provide updates via a portal annually.

For years I used to end date my contracts to expire by that year's end so that they are not automatically accounting for my property in their bundle when fighting the (Galveston) county but this was the first time I signed on for reoccurring representation annually with Ownwell.

I think everyone is being capped at 10% max (if in Texas) due to increase in population of people moving to Texas and for various (affluent) zip codes that are identified in the records, barring some natural disaster like Harvey where the county paused hikes for 3 years and then reassessed after time had passed.

I used to try to fight my own with little success vs the hours I spent.

Started to use a group who did not charge and the next year they charged a flat fee of around $150. Well worth it to me since I would plan on protesting every year anyways.

I may start to reconsider once my 10% caps catch up, but so far I have no issues paying someone for their time.

Ive done my own for years and have had great success. My reason is always my assessed value is not like my peers. This always takes out their argument of recent sales comps because everyone in the neighborhood is supposed to be dinged by that. I download all the appraisals in my neighborhood calc $/squft then sort by pool/no pool and group by street, by phase and by subdivision. Usually I can see the outliers and mine usually in the top 20%. I usually wait until the last week since then most of these 3rd parties have successfully fought their clients (and are lower) and I roll those new valuations in my analysis. It takes about 2 hours or so and I save a ton of money. I actually thought of making this a side hustle. lol

The main downfall I saw to using a 3rd party, I witnessed myself the first time I had to come in to discuss in front of the CAD Board.

I saw one of these 3rd parties, roll out a list of about 50-75 homes and sit down and 'bulk agree' on a reduction of "75% of what you are asking about". They don't fight for home on a case by case basis. They do a 'value of their time calc' and move on to get these done in bulk. FOr example, you can really make a case for a home to be valued at $120/sqft, down from a $150/sqft appraisal but they only try to get them to approve $135 or $130 because they know they can get that on their first try without ever having to revisit. They get 50% of that and they move on vs fighting to get you to $120 or $125. That's my issue, primarily.

I did my own for the first 8 years at this house much in the same way and was really successful at first. The reality was my results dwindled each year because at some point there's diminishing returns because there's less and less relevant properties in my small neighborhood appraised lower than me due to the nature of the process. Our neighborhood being mature and many homes turning over (selling and renovating) and so few fighting their taxes meant the average value was climbing exponentially without meaning any recognizable gain to me.

This year was my first to outsource to an a small Aggie group on here . Their flat fee was the tipping point for me. I literally had a CAD employee tell me off the record at the conclusion of last year I wasn't going to win much moving forward as my property value was just too low.

Their flat fee was a bargain for the cost to get Jubally and for me to do my additional analysis, waste my time waiting at HCAD to be screwed, then formals, etc. And the result was probably better than what I would have got as an individual under a microscope in comparison.

I'm sure we'll get there at some point. I plugged in Ownwell and it showed they couldn't help me.

HowdyAgs03 said:

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I have Ownwell handle my protest request. Their fee is 25% of any property tax savings and nothing is owed if the protest is unsuccessful. Signing up was quick and easy.

If anyone decides to give them a shot use the following link and we'll both get a $20 credit:
https://www.ownwell.com/?owl=2EFAFZCAC

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Bumping for protest season!

Stupid question....b/c i am not smart....is it possible they (ownwell) reduce the value but with exemptions, etc maybe does not impact tax bill? If so, do they consider all that? Do they analyze what would pay initially vs what would pay after and assess their fees that way?

Ultimately...is there any way to "lose" on this? They lower market value but not enough to impact tax bill? They would not charge, right?

Seems super easy and i am tempted but when things seem too easy I start looking for the "gotcha"


edit: google seems to confirm it is based on the actual cash savings but appreciate any confirmation....

planoaggie123 said:

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Stupid question....b/c i am not smart....is it possible they (ownwell) reduce the value but with exemptions, etc maybe does not impact tax bill? If so, do they consider all that? Do they analyze what would pay initially vs what would pay after and assess their fees that way?

Ultimately...is there any way to "lose" on this? They lower market value but not enough to impact tax bill? They would not charge, right?

Seems super easy and i am tempted but when things seem too easy I start looking for the "gotcha"


edit: google seems to confirm it is based on the actual cash savings but appreciate any confirmation....

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From my understanding, ownwell does not charge you unless they are able to get you actual savings on your property tax bill.

Correct. Their fee is 25% of actual savings on your tax bill.

https://www.ownwell.com/help/article/8807177604379-how-much-do-you-charge