https://www.wsj.com/finance/investing/jpmorgan-chase-american-express-premium-credit-card-fee-d02f9d0d?st=3bhWF2&reflink=article_copyURL_share

I use Sapphire Reserve for all spending so will want to pay attention to benefits a bit more to understand my net cost here after benefits.

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JPMorgan Chase said it was raising the annual fee by 45% on its popular Sapphire Reserve credit card...will soon rise to $795, from $550

It takes effect Monday for new customers and in October for existing customers.

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American Express , whose Platinum card usually carries the heftiest fee in its market segment, is expected to raise its $695 feeeven higher than the Sapphire Reserve'sin its fall refresh, analysts say.

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Chase making that money on neglect.

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According to the latest data from the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, cardholders earned over $40 billion in rewards in 2022, yet more than $33 billion went unclaimeda 40% jump since before the pandemic. The average account sat on $150 in unused perks.

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One of the reasons I won't upgrade my Chase Sapphire and Capital One Venture cards to Reserve and X is because of the cost.

I wonder if they are going to raise the fee on my versions, too.

I've been a Capital One Venture card holder for maybe 10 years or so, and my annual fee is still only $59. They didn't raise it to $95. I feel like that card is a good deal.

I use the Sapphire Reserve as well and have been planning to give it up to get another signup bonus. Unless they add more perks, I won't get my money's worth out of it. Unfortunately, I was unable to cancel sooner and signup for the Sapphire Preferred when they had the 100k point bonus for it in April and May. I'll try to wean myself off of any purchases between now and November when it renews. I'll also try to figure out the best travel partners to transfer my points to before I close it. I'll probably eventually sign back up for the Sapphire Preferred, primarily to transfer to travel partners.

On the last paragraph, I have about 550k in accumulated points, but they aren't truly unclaimed since I will eventually transfer or use them when I have a need. There are several small perks I don't use, such as Lyft and Door Dash, but I do need to get TSA Pre-check before I cancel since it will be credited back to me.

I was about to signup for the Amex Platinum Business card because of its 250k point bonus, but I didn't realize there is an additional $350 fee for an authorized user, which I would need to add since I need to split the points. Still worth it for the point bonus the first year, but it wouldn't be after that.

Yeah, I'm going to see if there is another card out there that makes more sense as an all-in one card based on benefits I care about.

We do maximize what we get from Sapphire, but there might be a better offering. I haven't researched cards in several years now so really don't know what's out there at the moment.

Will check out The Points Guy.

We'll probably do a new look this year. We downgraded our Chase Sapphire Reserve a few years ago and were going to downgrade the AMEX last year but they offered a reduced fee and bonus points to keep it another year.

Hate how they are becoming coupon books.

Although if you use just Lyft and Doordash semi-regularly you should be able to make up most of the costs.

I am not sure I know what the Chase Dining program is. Sounds dumb though.

The make up the costs thing to me is so dumb. I'm not just trying to make up the cost, I'm trying to maximize the cost. And if that's break even….im out.

Yeah, these days we aren't getting many Ubers, maybe a handful a year. So I basically do an Uber Eats order 6 or so times a year to use the credit. Even placing it as a pickup order it's usually close to a wash in markup costs vs. the AMEX credit

The coupon book approach is annoying me to and doesn't really feel that luxurious which is the image they are trying sell. I'll keep my Venture X for now, but I have to admit it is getting harder to use the $300 portal credit since I usually get the same price or better booking direct. Often times for Hilton properties, booking direct with status is cheaper than the portal and has free cancellation whereas the capital one portal its often no refund to get the lowest price.

You can product change to the Chase Freedom Unlimited and keep a lot of spend categories for earning points. i.e.

same:
Flights (via Travel portal) - both are 5x
Dinning - Both are 3x
Lyft - Both are 5x

CSR better:
Hotels (via Travel portal) - freedom is 5x CSP is 10x
Other Travel - Freedom is 1.5x, CSP is 3x

Freedom unlimited better:
Drug stores - Freedom is 3x, CSP is 1x (drug stores sell gift cards so good way to build up points)
Other purchases - Freedom is 1.5x, CSP is 1x

You lose the transfer portals, but you can always wait to get another sign up bonus on a new chase sapphire preferred or wait until you want to travel, then call up chase to upgrade the Freedom Unlimited to a Chase Sapphire preferred and then transfer the points out when you are ready.

If you're savvy enough, converting points to miles can net you some great deals.

But cashback will always be king - the issue you run into is the tax implications.

Diggity said:

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htxag09 said:

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The make up the costs thing to me is so dumb. I'm not just trying to make up the cost, I'm trying to maximize the cost. And if that's break even….im out.

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it's silly. You read about these people going to 7/11 and buying a Slurpee once a week to "get full value", then doing pick up orders for marked up food.

We make fun of our wives when they brag about "saving 40%" on their clothing purchases during a big sale and end up doing the exact same crap with the credit cards.

I get Clear (mostly) paid for by Amex, so that's theoretically a $200/year savings. I would never in a million years pay $250 for Clear though. There's countless examples like that for these cards.

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Definitely female shopping logic going on here which I love to give my wife hell about and she agrees she does it.

I simply look at this if I'm going to spend that money anyway regardless of the card then does it save me money. What I need to do is reassess current card offerings and determine if I can get the same benefit from much cheaper card and I suspect that I can.

If I keep the Sapphire Reserve, the net OOP to me is actually cheaper with the October increase because they are adding Apple TV to the benefit. I'm keeping that regardless of the card.

However, I can likely find an overall cheaper card, which means my overall net cost is still less even without the Apple TV refund/benefit.

Proposition Joe said:

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If you're savvy enough, converting points to miles can net you some great deals.

But cashback will always be king - the issue you run into is the tax implications.

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What are the tax implications?

I know some banks issue 1099s when you get referral bonuses but I don't think earning and spending points generates any taxes

permabull said:

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Proposition Joe said:

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If you're savvy enough, converting points to miles can net you some great deals.

But cashback will always be king - the issue you run into is the tax implications.

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What are the tax implications?

I know some banks issue 1099s when you get referral bonuses but I don't think earning and spending points generates any taxes

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If personal spend to generate the cashback, none.

If business spend to generate the cashback, it's an expense reduction (which effectively means it's taxed).

I think some of this is simple supply and demand. Clubs are crowded, but young adults crave and pay for the experiences that these affinity cards provide.

I was personally on the cash back train for a very long time, like more than 20 years, up until about a year ago. Since then, I've traded Costco Visa and Amex Blue cashback for United Club (1 year ago and I get to expense it for a couple more years) and Schwab Amex Plat (6 months ago). I travel a ton for work and starting to travel more for fun, so these both made a lot of sense for me personally.

I have been most pleased with the CS Amex Plat, which supplements my Corporate Amex Gold card very nicely. I wouldn't mind if they raised the fee another 200-300/year as I get a ton of benefits in the form of an annual CS account credit, 5x MR points, a Schwab account transfer rate of $.011 per point, hotel credits, flight fee credits, etc. The thing that prompted me to get the Amex Plat card is my frequency of travel to/from SLC and that there is no United Club, but Amex is opening a Centurion lounge in the fall in terminal B (United's SLC terminal). The 150k sign up bonus certainly helped out.

The point conversion for hotels on Sapphire Reserve sucks from what I can tell. I've never used it much at all but was just looking at a place this week and the cost was $1,200 per night directly with hotel but $1,800 with points. Admittedly, I rarely use my points for hotel stays so I might be missing something.

YouBet said:

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The point conversion for hotels on Sapphire Reserve sucks from what I can tell. I've never used it much at all but was just looking at a place this week and the cost was $1,200 per night directly with hotel but $1,800 with points. Admittedly, I rarely use my points for hotel stays so I might be missing something.

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Most CC points have better value if you transfer to a partner chain and use them directly.

I've found that it's basically 33% off list price but every hotel has prices around the same off their list price.

Rarely is much savings in their portal

Like stated above, we transfer out most of the points directly to hotels/airlines

My wife still has the saphire reserve but I canned my years ago and full time Cap One Savor card, 4% cash back on vast majority of my purchases is hard to beat.

YouBet said:

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The point conversion for hotels on Sapphire Reserve sucks from what I can tell. I've never used it much at all but was just looking at a place this week and the cost was $1,200 per night directly with hotel but $1,800 with points. Admittedly, I rarely use my points for hotel stays so I might be missing something.

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Aside from getting 33% off Apple products, I've found transferring to Hyatt to be the best value for reward redemption. Before the point requirement increased, I stayed at Lost Pines for 2 nights in the hospitality suite. Kitchen with refrigerator, dining area, living room, and two bedrooms for 40,000 points per night, which was the same as two standard rooms. The same suite was $1,800-$2,000 booking directly through Hyatt with cash. Not to mention no resort fees and no parking fees when booking with points. New Year's Eve and New Year's Day this year I stayed at the Hyatt Regency by the Superdome for 27,000 points total for two rooms. Just booked Hyatt Place for four nights in Colorado Springs for 76,000 points total for two rooms and no valet parking charge. Standard room price is $1,440 plus taxes and $128 valet directly with cash.

Your scenario on using the portal seems backwards as it should be 33% less than the hotel price, although I know sometimes the rates are higher when going through Chase. Maybe it's just that hotel. I looked at a Holiday Inn and it may have been slightly higher than Holiday Inn directly when paying cash, but using points was still much cheaper for the effective cash redemption value of the points.

During ski season can find some great deals transferring chase points to United or southwest

khkman22 said:

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YouBet said:

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The point conversion for hotels on Sapphire Reserve sucks from what I can tell. I've never used it much at all but was just looking at a place this week and the cost was $1,200 per night directly with hotel but $1,800 with points. Admittedly, I rarely use my points for hotel stays so I might be missing something.

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Aside from getting 33% off Apple products, I've found transferring to Hyatt to be the best value for reward redemption. Before the point requirement increased, I stayed at Lost Pines for 2 nights in the hospitality suite. Kitchen with refrigerator, dining area, living room, and two bedrooms for 40,000 points per night, which was the same as two standard rooms. The same suite was $1,800-$2,000 booking directly through Hyatt with cash. Not to mention no resort fees and no parking fees when booking with points. New Year's Eve and New Year's Day this year I stayed at the Hyatt Regency by the Superdome for 27,000 points total for two rooms. Just booked Hyatt Place for four nights in Colorado Springs for 76,000 points total for two rooms and no valet parking charge. Standard room price is $1,440 plus taxes and $128 valet directly with cash.

Your scenario on using the portal seems backwards as it should be 33% less than the hotel price, although I know sometimes the rates are higher when going through Chase. Maybe it's just that hotel. I looked at a Holiday Inn and it may have been slightly higher than Holiday Inn directly when paying cash, but using points was still much cheaper for the effective cash redemption value of the points.

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I absolutely might be looking at this wrong. I am not a seasoned pro at points conversion.

I was looking at the Holiday Inn multiple days so I don't remember the exact rates on their site versus Chase. I think Holiday Inn was around $222 or so on their site and it was $230 on Chase. They could have actually been the same the day I checked Chase, but I don't remember for sure. That was the cash price to charge to the credit card through the portal, but if I used points, it would have been 136,000 points, equivalent to $1,360 cash redemption value versus $1,950 or so directly through the hotel.

Generally you should see similar results when using points in Ultimate Rewards, although I have seen hotels and flights be closer to the 20-25% range instead. But never backwards as you're stating, although I typically just transfer to the travel partner instead of booking through UR.

Hyatt is pretty broken. Just checked Hyatt regency Chicago for a random weekend in August $600 a night after taxes and fees but only 18k ($180 worth of cash back) per night, no tax, no resort fee. So over 3c per point in value. I often see Hyatt house type properties in the 6.5k range.

I generally get 1.3-1.7c per point in value when transferring to Southwest airlines.

Edit: wrong quote

Don't look for hotels in the chase portal, you have to go directly to the Hyatt site and select "use points" when you search for hotels. Once you get the full amount you need then you transfer chase points to your Hyatt account

But it's 1:1 there vs the theoretical 33% discount via portal.

I haven't used it in forever so correct me if I'm wrong.

Prefer the double cash card. 2 percent cash back with no limit. Just don't have time or energy to chase points deals. The only other card is a GM card with 5 percent reward up to 500$ annual max which I do every year and purchase a GM truck every 6 years. GM usually has an additional 1,000 or so off a new purchase once a year.

My wife likes the United card but it seems like too much drama with the miles program and too inconsistent.

as mentioned. Hyatt will have cash/point conversions that make points the much more valuable play.

Even with the redemption bonus, it makes more sense to use points in these scenarios.

Right. Just saying their portal isn't the deal that it says it is. Being pushed 1:1 from there to partner site. Same as earning those points elsewhere.

it really depends on the hotel. Hyatt generally has much better point conversions, while Marriott's are typically terrible. Sometimes it makes sense to book directly through the portal, other times it's better to convert to points

So much math...I need to set up a spreadsheet so I can understand context of what y'all are even saying.

YouBet said:

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So much math...I need to set up a spreadsheet so I can understand context of what y'all are even saying.

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YouBet said:

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So much math...I need to set up a spreadsheet so I can understand context of what y'all are even saying.

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Its somewhat simple lol. Each credit card point is typically worth 1 cent. So 10,000 Chase points is worth $100, 20,000 points is worth $200 etc. With a Chase Sapphire Preferred, you get a 25% bonus for booking on the Chase portal, so your points are worth 1.25/cent.

Using Diggity's Hyatt example above, that room costs $452/night or 15,000 Hyatt points. So if booking on the Chase portal with the Sapphire Preferred, it would cost 36,200 Chase points (36,200 x 1.25). If you transfer directly to Hyatt it would only cost you 15,000 Chase points to book that same exact room, since you can transfer Chase points to Hyatt at a 1:1 redemption.

The above scenario would essentially get you a 3x value for your Chase points by transferring directly to Hyatt, versus a 1.25x value by using the Chase portal with a Sapphire Preferred. So your Chase points are worth way more by transferring directly to Hyatt instead of booking via the Chase portal.

I hope all of this makes sense lol.