Never been through this before, anyone else have experience?

When I shopped insurance last year, I switched all home and auto policies to Progressive. Per usual, I set things up as auto draft. Well, the auto policy continues to auto draft, but the homeowner's policy did not. The letter warning of the nonpayment was overlooked until the deadline passed. Progressive (Homesite) will not reinstate the policy or write a new one. It's my fault no doubt, but sure would be nice if both sides of the "bundled" insurance could have figured out how auto draft payment.

What I am finding is that half of insurers aren't writing polices for hurricane-prone areas and the other half won't write where there is a policy lapse. I got one quote from Foremost for $24,000/yr., which is >6X what my premiums were before and about double my mortgage. Any recommendations for the best way out of this? Recommendations on who will write a policy under the circumstances? If I sign up for an exorbitant policy now, how soon can I reshop it where the lapse won't be held against me?

If lapse is less than 30 days there are more carriers that will look at it.

How long is the lapse and what county are you in?

There's always the Texas Fair Plan as a fall back

Why didn't the autodraft continue? I may be harsh as I hate insurance companies with a passion but I'd hammer them on this, up to and including filing a TDI complaint. It's the only real way to get their attention.

Way past 30 days...closer to 120. Harris County.

See if Orion180 will cover you.

A lapse that long is going to be an issue for most every carrier.
Not sure if you are working with an independent but I'd find an independent agent and ask about the Texas Fair Plan

Before I did that I'd check with my mortgage company and see if they placed coverage on it. If they hadn't got proof of coverage in that long id of thought they'd already placed coverage somewhere. You should of gotten mail if they did that though

EnronAg said:

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This has been a good post for me to read. When I pay my home off in a couple years, I was seriously contemplating self insuring. Let's say I did, and then had buyers remorse after a year or so, are you guys saying insurance companies would know and I would have difficulty getting insured at fair rates?!?

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I even have that fear with us hopping around for better rates that eventually the musical chairs will stop and all that will be left is a bunch of bad options... But at the same time, doesn't seem like any "loyalty discount" I've seen can match the rate hopping.

EnronAg said:

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This has been a good post for me to read. When I pay my home off in a couple years, I was seriously contemplating self insuring. Let's say I did, and then had buyers remorse after a year or so, are you guys saying insurance companies would know and I would have difficulty getting insured at fair rates?!?

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If your house is paid off, you have more options for insurance like 20% deductible (Mortgage companies won't accept that), so basically just self-insurance for anything less than catastrophic. Kin is one of these I'm aware of, but there are a couple others who play in this market.

Woof. This sucks OP.

First thing I would do is get an insurance broker to help you find policies and options you may not be aware of. You may end up way overpaying when you don't need to.

Anyone that is high net worth should have umbrella insurance especially considering its relatively cheap cost.

permabull said:

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EnronAg said:

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This has been a good post for me to read. When I pay my home off in a couple years, I was seriously contemplating self insuring. Let's say I did, and then had buyers remorse after a year or so, are you guys saying insurance companies would know and I would have difficulty getting insured at fair rates?!?

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Self insurance sounds great and all, but if your net worth is high enough that you own your house outright, you likely should consider umbrella insurance. No one will underwrite you an umbrella policy if you don't have home insurance. You leave yourself at risk of someone breaking their leg on your property, sueing you, then taking your house.

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Tell me about umbrella insurance. How does that work, what is the reason to get it?

Is it in addition to home and auto?

infinity ag said:

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permabull said:

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EnronAg said:

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This has been a good post for me to read. When I pay my home off in a couple years, I was seriously contemplating self insuring. Let's say I did, and then had buyers remorse after a year or so, are you guys saying insurance companies would know and I would have difficulty getting insured at fair rates?!?

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Self insurance sounds great and all, but if your net worth is high enough that you own your house outright, you likely should consider umbrella insurance. No one will underwrite you an umbrella policy if you don't have home insurance. You leave yourself at risk of someone breaking their leg on your property, sueing you, then taking your house.

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Tell me about umbrella insurance. How does that work, what is the reason to get it?

Is it in addition to home and auto?

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Yes, it plugs the liability gap that your other insurance won't cover above a certain amount. Thus, the term "umbrella".

You typically get policies for $1M, $2M, $5M, etc. I haven't found any normal insurance company that would insure above $5M though.

For context, we pay $931.00 for $5M in coverage.

a07nathanb said:

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Before I did that I'd check with my mortgage company and see if they placed coverage on it. If they hadn't got proof of coverage in that long id of thought they'd already placed coverage somewhere. You should of gotten mail if they did that though

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This was my thought, I'm amazed that your mortgager wasn't up your ass about this. Every time I've had home insurance issues the mortgager was sending me nasty grams about how they were going to buy insurance for me at significantly higher cost

"Why didn't the autodraft continue? I may be harsh as I hate insurance companies with a passion but I'd hammer them on this, up to and including filing a TDI complaint. It's the only real way to get their attention"

• Though it appears a ball might have been dropped regarding the auto-draft, the fact that a lapse notice was sent but not heeded negates any power to complain to TDI.

"Tell me about umbrella insurance. How does that work, what is the reason to get it?
Is it in addition to home and auto?"

• The best way to describe this is as an extension of the liability policy you already have. It's a policy that sits on top of your current liability coverage. As an example, your auto liability policy may have a $100,000 property damage limit. If you are liable for an accident involving three other vehicles totaling $225,000 in property damage, the umbrella would kick in above the $100,000 limit of your auto policy. Add the potential for bodily injury to others, and you can see why higher limits are really necessary, especially if you have assets to protect. There's more to it than that, but that's the quick gist.

Regarding the home lapse, what carriers or agencies have you contacted so far for help? It's been mentioned that an independent agent or broker might be the best option, but it often seems that State Farm agents have a bit more leeway with their policies, so I would check there as well. You might also ask a broker to explore E&S (excess and surplus) options. I would do all of this before looking at the Fair Plan.

Full disclosure, I am in the insurance world but I only deal with business/commercial insurance. That said, I know enough of the personal lines insurance world to be pretty dangerous and annoying to my own agent

YouBet said:

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infinity ag said:

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permabull said:

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EnronAg said:

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This has been a good post for me to read. When I pay my home off in a couple years, I was seriously contemplating self insuring. Let's say I did, and then had buyers remorse after a year or so, are you guys saying insurance companies would know and I would have difficulty getting insured at fair rates?!?

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Self insurance sounds great and all, but if your net worth is high enough that you own your house outright, you likely should consider umbrella insurance. No one will underwrite you an umbrella policy if you don't have home insurance. You leave yourself at risk of someone breaking their leg on your property, sueing you, then taking your house.

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Tell me about umbrella insurance. How does that work, what is the reason to get it?

Is it in addition to home and auto?

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Yes, it plugs the liability gap that your other insurance won't cover above a certain amount. Thus, the term "umbrella".

You typically get policies for $1M, $2M, $5M, etc. I haven't found any normal insurance company that would insure above $5M though.

For context, we pay $931.00 for $5M in coverage.

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That's a great rate, which company?

Thanks for the input all. We are giving Orion180 a try at $4900, will report back how things go. My understanding is they have 60 days to cancel the policy without cause if they choose and keep a portion of the fee. I saw those reviews before moving forward but am willing to take the risk at this point.

Tried without success Progressive/Homesite, State Farm, Travelers, Chubb, and several other lines I was not familiar with. Two different independent adjusters ghosted after initial effort.

rme said:

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YouBet said:

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infinity ag said:

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permabull said:

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EnronAg said:

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This has been a good post for me to read. When I pay my home off in a couple years, I was seriously contemplating self insuring. Let's say I did, and then had buyers remorse after a year or so, are you guys saying insurance companies would know and I would have difficulty getting insured at fair rates?!?

---

Self insurance sounds great and all, but if your net worth is high enough that you own your house outright, you likely should consider umbrella insurance. No one will underwrite you an umbrella policy if you don't have home insurance. You leave yourself at risk of someone breaking their leg on your property, sueing you, then taking your house.

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Tell me about umbrella insurance. How does that work, what is the reason to get it?

Is it in addition to home and auto?

---

Yes, it plugs the liability gap that your other insurance won't cover above a certain amount. Thus, the term "umbrella".

You typically get policies for $1M, $2M, $5M, etc. I haven't found any normal insurance company that would insure above $5M though.

For context, we pay $931.00 for $5M in coverage.

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That's a great rate, which company?

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Progressive.

This happened to me. I thought I had set up my auto pay and something went wrong. We were dealing with a death in the family so I wasn't keeping up with mail and my policy got canceled.

We had the added problem that our home was in a price point that it was too high for "normal" insurance companies and they didn't want to insure it, but too low for the high-end insurance companies to want to insure it.

Look up, Kin Insurance. My lapse was closer to 90 days, but I was able to get coverage with them. They're a little funny though because they only insure your home; they don't deal with collections (jewelry, artwork, musical instruments), autos, or umbrella. You can apply online I was able to get coverage through them and I've used them for a couple, maybe three years now.

Cincinnatus said:

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Thanks for the input all. We are giving Orion180 a try at $4900, will report back how things go. My understanding is they have 60 days to cancel the policy without cause if they choose and keep a portion of the fee. I saw those reviews before moving forward but am willing to take the risk at this point.

Tried without success Progressive/Homesite, State Farm, Travelers, Chubb, and several other lines I was not familiar with. Two different independent adjusters ghosted after initial effort.

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If you are still needing help on this I am more than happy to see what i can do, I own an Independent Agency and can shop this around with multiple carriers for you.

Matt@Dimitexas.com

Actually you don't need homeowners to get an umbrella, you just need underlying liability coverage which can be bought seperate from a homeowners policy.

You are correct however that with a moderate netwroth an umbrella is smart.

You can get an umbrella above 5 mil no problem. Just find a broker that deals with high networth clients. You can get up to 100mil.

JAW3336 said:

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You can get an umbrella above 5 mil no problem. Just find a broker that deals with high networth clients. You can get up to 100mil.

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I'm going to likely need $150M though.

I would suggest stacking until you get to 1billion to be safe.

JAW3336 said:

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I would suggest stacking until you get to 1billion to be safe.

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I will consider this.

You can go over $5M, but it starts getting significantly more expensive as I believe the logic at that point is if you're getting sued for more than $5M then it's for a ridiculous amount.

I had no idea getting coverage after a lapse in coverage was such a big deal but what do I know!

Wasn't always a big deal but getting harder and harder.

I am an agent and I can still write good policies with reasonable premiums for people with a lapse outside of coastal areas and outside of Houston.

I don't know how long that will last.

one safe place said:

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I had no idea getting coverage after a lapse in coverage was such a big deal but what do I know!

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Just another financial area that is becoming unsustainable. I can't imagine we don't get to a point where certain areas simply can't get coverage.

What we pay in insurance per year would floor you. We live on the coast so we knew that going into it, but we can't live here for forever simply due to property taxes and insurance. Home insurance is our second highest annual expenditure behind property taxes because we have to carry 3 different policies.

I agree, deductibles have been rising and if costs and claims don't subside(which costs obviously won't) then deductibles and premiums will rise and areas will be excluded completely.


I understand the appeal of coastal living but the risks are very high and eventually will be uninsurable.

I have a second home in the mountains and in a high fire risk area and it will be the same soon. uninsurable.

JAW3336 said:

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I agree, deductibles have been rising and if costs and claims don't subside(which costs obviously won't) then deductibles and premiums will rise and areas will be excluded completely.


I understand the appeal of coastal living but the risks are very high and eventually will be uninsurable.

I have a second home in the mountains and in a high fire risk area and it will be the same soon. uninsurable.

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Actually started planting seeds with my wife about moving on in a few years due to this. She about ripped my head off for even suggesting it at first, but has since done her own reading and came back to me in agreement.

She just wasn't aware or cognizant of the money we have to spend annually to live here. And with a typical marriage, she didn't really believe her own husband when I shared the numbers with her. She had to read it on her own and come to her own conclusion before she would accept reality. Lol.

JAW3336 said:

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Wasn't always a big deal but getting harder and harder.

I am an agent and I can still write good policies with reasonable premiums for people with a lapse outside of coastal areas and outside of Houston.

I don't know how long that will last.

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So is it a case of insurance companies not wanting to provide coverage in a certain area (coastal property, fire danger area, etc.) and using the lapse in coverage as a way to get out of covering a property in the areas they want to avoid? Sorry if that sounds stupid.

I guess what I do not understand is if a property is insured, then lapses, and nothing has changed (no damages, no additions to the structure) what makes them not want to insure it again? I have changed insurers a few times over the years, on three properties, and the new company has had an inspector come out, take a look at things, take pictures, etc. but no issues otherwise.

JAW3336 said:

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I agree, deductibles have been rising and if costs and claims don't subside(which costs obviously won't) then deductibles and premiums will rise and areas will be excluded completely.


I understand the appeal of coastal living but the risks are very high and eventually will be uninsurable.

I have a second home in the mountains and in a high fire risk area and it will be the same soon. uninsurable.

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I had a dentist for a tax client and he and I were discussing his beach house. He and his wife live in a very nice home near me but also had (might still have) an even nicer place at the beach. A lot of the discussion was about the ongoing maintenance on coastal properties and, of course, insurance. My thoughts were that at some point not even he would be able to afford the insurance if he could even get coverage.

My wife and I are about to sell a couple of properties and though I love the beach and though we will have the money, I told her we would be much better off renting a place for a month at $3,000 a week than buying a place. Plus, if you don't own it, you won't have a dozen family members wanting to use your beach house like was the case with the dentist!! lol

I don't know the real reason behind it but I assume there are some statistics that homes with lapsed policies are higher risk and/or clients who "let" their policy lapse are higher risk.

The reason I can't write the coastal areas is because I am a smaller agent in Central Texas and my carriers don't give me any availability for that area which is fine since I don't market or pursue coastal properties.

JAW3336 said:

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I don't know the real reason behind it but I assume there are some statistics that homes with lapsed policies are higher risk and/or clients who "let" their policy lapse are higher risk.

The reason I can't write the coastal areas is because I am a smaller agent in Central Texas and my carriers don't give me any availability for that area which is fine since I don't market or pursue coastal properties.

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That makes sense, thanks.