Real Estate
Sponsored by

What happens when a broker gives legal advice?

2,053 Views | 11 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by Absolute
itsyourboypookie
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Friend is selling a flip house we sold him. Local title company says there's a $36,000 HOA lien on the property. Title company he closed at when he purchased it says HOA LLC was surrendered in 1993 and there's no judgement on the property.

Local title company refuses to talk to other title company and when we say there's no HOA the title attorney says Pam and Susan down at the local bookkeepers office have been running the HOA. We ask under what name and LLC and where the website is with the names of the board members, minutes, and when the next meeting is? (As state law requires)

He says call Pam abd Susan and gives us their number. We call and Pam and Susan give us Alex the 'President' of the boards number. We call Alex and as for a detailed breakdown of the 36k, their articles of formation, and some other details. SHE HAND WRITES AN INVOICE FOR THE 36k. So then we call back ask if they have an attorney and if we can speak to him. She says yes, the local guy in town. We ask his name and she hangs up.

In the mean time the real estate broke (also local) tells the buyers the lien is valid, the HOA is valid, and they should only close with the local title company who will insure lien is paid off (there's no lien because there's never been a suit)

They then refuse to sign extension, I ask to speak to buyers legal representation, the broker says they have none and refer me to the title companies attorney.

Our attorney reaches out to the 'HOA' and Pam and Susan are no longer associated with it, Alex says no back fees are owed, and our willing buyer is still refusing to close and is demanding the $3500 earnest money back.

I'll told my buddy to hell with that, we will see them in mitigation.

Attorney is drafting some demand letters for tort for title company and agent, and specific performance for buyer.

Is there a chance an E&O policy will pay? And what's the penalty for a broker giving legal advice?
combat wombat™
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Yikes, what a mess!
Diggity
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Doesn't sound like agent is giving legal advice. Sounds like one title company is telling them the title is clouded and seller's previous title company has a different opinion.

Buyers agent appears to be taking the conservative tack and advising their client not to get into this mess.

Doesn't mean you can't continue to fight for the earnest money (although that might present its own challenges) but going after agent's E&O sounds like pissing in the wind to me. If anything, you should go after the local title company.
itsyourboypookie
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Diggity said:

Doesn't sound like agent is giving legal advise. Sounds like one title company is telling them the title is clouded and seller's previous title company has a different opinion.

Buyers agent appears to be taking the conservative tack and advising their client not to get into this mess.

Doesn't mean you can't continue to fight for the earnest money (although that might present its own challenges) but going after agent's E&O sounds like pissing in the wind to me. If anything, you should go after the local title company.


How does an agent know what a valid lien is and if it should be paid off?
Diggity
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
They don't, so it sounds like they're relying on the local title company.
CS78
How long do you want to ignore this user?
My issue would be with the title company. How did they find the lien if there was never a suit? Word of mouth? They then used word of mouth info to blow up your deal? That would be my angle.

Im selling a house now that the title company has found out there's a newly formed HOA that hasn't started collecting dues yet. Ive owned the place for 12 years and first Ive heard of it.

Have another place where the HOA had already made a TON of changes using "a 50% yes vote of the votes received". Rather than "50% yes vote of property owners". Giant monkey hump trying to get that corrected.

There's always a new screwup just waiting to be discovered!
Agilaw
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
What does your attorney say? Are they a real estate attorney?
Deats99
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
**** HOA's, except in the county , where unfortunately they are a necessity?
A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.
-George S Patton
itsyourboypookie
How long do you want to ignore this user?
CS78 said:

My issue would be with the title company. How did they find the lien if there was never a suit? Word of mouth? They then used word of mouth info to blow up your deal? That would be my angle.

Im selling a house now that the title company has found out there's a newly formed HOA that hasn't started collecting dues yet. Ive owned the place for 12 years and first Ive heard of it.

Have another place where the HOA had already made a TON of changes using "a 50% yes vote of the votes received". Rather than "50% yes vote of property owners". Giant monkey hump trying to get that corrected.

There's always a new screwup just waiting to be discovered!


Requested a resale cert from HOA that hasn't been in business. They hand wrote a $36,000 bill.
itsyourboypookie
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Diggity said:

They don't, so it sounds like they're relying on the local title company.


Local title company can't give legal advice either.
itsyourboypookie
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Agilaw said:

What does your attorney say? Are they a real estate attorney?


Attorney says it's all criminal and fraud. There's lien, only a hand written note from a fraudulent HOA.

Absolute
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Go after them! Hoa's, while a nice idea, just always seem to attract /be the scum of the earth worst people.

In 2008 we purchased a small builder foreclosure house in Springfield Missouri for my Mil,who had managed to refi her paid off house into foreclosure (but that another story.). She was going to pay rent, wait that's another story too. Hoa, yeah, back to the hoa story..... When we closed there was absolutely no mention of an hoa. Nothing in the closing documents. We signed nothing about an hoa. It was a newer neighborhood, hence the builder foreclosure part.

3 years later we received a certified letter saying we owed 75 dollars for 3 years of dues to the hoa and like 5000 dollars worth or penalties and late fees. Yes, the hoa dues were 25 bucks a year. Initially we tried to be nice. Contacted the "treasurer" listed on the letter and explained that 1) we were never informed there was an hoa. 2)we had never received a statement or bill. Our Dallas address is listed clearly on all documents and we had told the Mil to disregard anything that came to her (not that she would have forwarded anything.)

Said treasurer was a complete ***** and explained that a lien had already been filed and we had to pay and she was not willing to budge.

Now we were pissed. A little research found that in MO it is really easy to file a lien, but you better be correct. If filed without true cause and evidence the penalty STARTED at 3 times the lien amount on the entity that improperly filed it.

We double checked all our paperwork and did some research. Come to find the hoa was defunk when we purchased due to various issues on their part. Hence why we never knew about it.

Found the "president's" contact info and contacted him with a friendly letter explaining the facts and that they were very likely to lose at least 4 years worth of the TOTAL dues they collected in this crappy little neighborhood because they had no legs to stand on. That we were happy to pay the 75 bucks but the lien and penalties needed to go away immediately, because if we had to go to court we would not stop at the minimum automatic compensation amount and would happily bankrupt them for their bs. Wasn't really what we wanted, but we were pissed. Thankfully, he was reasonable and immediately agreed.

Through the years, sometimes we get the bill, sometimes we don't. Can't even just preemptively send a check because the address changes. But now I know to watch for it.

Compete waste of time and oxygen.
Refresh
Page 1 of 1
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.