Rules question

2,183 Views | 15 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by Kansas Kid
TXAGGIES
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Are decorative rocks, in the form of a walking path considered free relief if theyvare in the swing arc?

It is not marked a hazard or anything but was in the left rough with trees and these rocks are man laid in a tight pattern through the trees.
bagger05
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AG
If the path is artificially surfaced then it's an immovable obstruction. Or at least this lady in this USGA video says so:

Rules Corner in Partnership with Rolex: Ball on a Gravel Path (usga.org)
Just an Ag
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AG
I am having to imagine the situation, but if the stones interfere with the club's ability to impact the ball or they create a dangerous situation, in my group you are likely to get relief. You would also get relief if the player's stance is impacted.
CapCity12thMan
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AG

Obstruction

(see also immovable and movable obstruction): Any artificial object except for integral objects and boundary objects.

Examples of obstructions:

  • Artificially surfaced roads and paths, including their artificial borders.
  • Buildings and vehicles.
  • Sprinkler heads, drains and irrigation or control boxes.
  • Player equipment, flagsticks and rakes.

in this case, I believe you would be entitled to relief due to an Abnormal Course Condition (immovable obstruction), which is as follows:

Rule 16
TXAGGIES
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It more like this, where instead of dirt it is Pine Straw and then rocks. Its Hole #7 at TPC Southwind (left side) but I cannot find a picture of it.

I agree if it is a designed walking path, free relief, but is this considered more of a part of the course?

I took a drop as we were playing a friendly round, just wondering for once member guest comes around. I forgot to ask in the pro shop but figured TexAgs knows everything.
Obi Wan Ginobili
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TXAGGIES said:


It more like this, where instead of dirt it is Pine Straw and then rocks. Its Hole #7 at TPC Southwind (left side) but I cannot find a picture of it.

I agree if it is a designed walking path, free relief, but is this considered more of a part of the course?

I took a drop as we were playing a friendly round, just wondering for once member guest comes around. I forgot to ask in the pro shop but figured TexAgs knows everything.


I wouldn't be shocked if the course tells you it's in play. If the rocks are a walking trail, it's free relief in my book, but if the rocks are decorative they are in play and part of the design.
whisperingbill
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TXAGGIES said:

Are decorative rocks, in the form of a walking path considered free relief if theyvare in the swing arc?

It is not marked a hazard or anything but was in the left rough with trees and these rocks are man laid in a tight pattern through the trees.
There is so much to un-pack here. We've got "decorative" rocks, a "swing arc" , "man laid in a tight pattern THROUGH the trees". And then a ruling is needed. Yet, all I can think of is, did you hook it or slice it into this situation?
CapCity12thMan
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"in the form of a walking path"

you qualified your question with this and this changes the entire argument, since there is a photo of it now that is NOT a walking path.

Those are just rocks. you play it as it lies, unless there is a specific local rule specifying you don't.
TXAGGIES
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When they open back up (after the FedEx) I'll get a good answer on this. That picture I posted is not exact but the best replica I could find
Kansas Kid
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I have played the course and if it is what I am thinking, there wouldn't be relief under the official rules of golf although you might be able to move some rocks as a loose impediment. The challenge would be not moving your ball if it is in the rocks.
TXAGGIES
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Kansas Kid said:

I have played the course and if it is what I am thinking, there wouldn't be relief under the official rules of golf although you might be able to move some rocks as a loose impediment. The challenge would be not moving your ball if it is in the rocks.


Its between 2 teebox and 7 fairway. Tall brush with trees at the end of it.
G Martin 87
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If I was playing a friendly match and somebody told me I had to play it off the rocks, I'd say "sure, if you lend me one of your clubs."
TXAGGIES
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G Martin 87 said:

If I was playing a friendly match and somebody told me I had to play it off the rocks, I'd say "sure, if you lend me one of your clubs."
This question is more for when we play Member Guest coming up in Sept. I took a drop, I didn't care when my buddies thought. But during match play making them take an unplayable basically gives you the hole 7 out of 10 times.
DannyDuberstein
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AG
Seems like something a local rule would cover/clarify, and I would consider that kind of manmade item a free drop as long as it's not serving as some sort of OB border. Electrical boxes, cart paths, paths to on course toilets, etc. I'd put it right with those. The choice of material doesn't make it natural. Concrete has rocks in it too
CapCity12thMan
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AG
our local group has a "rock rule" for this very thing

I know some courses/events I have played in they explicitly say something to the effect of "flower beds" or "bordered garden areas" or something like that to let you know if you land in them you get free relief.
Kansas Kid
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TXAGGIES said:

G Martin 87 said:

If I was playing a friendly match and somebody told me I had to play it off the rocks, I'd say "sure, if you lend me one of your clubs."
This question is more for when we play Member Guest coming up in Sept. I took a drop, I didn't care when my buddies thought. But during match play making them take an unplayable basically gives you the hole 7 out of 10 times.

I would hope in a member guest, you would get relief. This isn't the Frdex championship. As others have said, they may also have a local rule to address it although my club has a similar area marked as a red staked penalty area.
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