Ethics - Scramble

2,974 Views | 19 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by Yesterday
Chompchomp12
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Played in a 2-man scramble with a Calcutta payout for Sunday. Thru 12 holes, my partner and I sat at -3. Our playing partners sat at E or +1.

Coming off the 12th green, I saw my partner along with one of the members of the team we were paired with walking off the green together.

Waiting on the 13th tee to clear, my partner states that the other team has "agreed" to give us a score of -6 if we give them a -4. I told him at that point, that we would get to -6 by ourselves without any help and that I wasn't in.

My partner mentioned to me that I'd need to tell the other team that. Well, I didn't. Sure enough, after hole 15, we were at -5, the other team at -1. We play hole 16, and we chip up (couldn't tell how close) and all I see is the other team putting our ball back to us as we arrive up to the green in our cart. I asked the guy whether we were in the leather or not and he said, "within my leather".

I still didn't say anything. We finish out the last 2 holes and have another chip up and putt back to us on 18 as we pull up to the green.

We had a legit -5, possible -7. No guarantee that we make those two "gimme" putts. The card got filled out and turned in at -7. The team we were playing with shot -3. Their card gets filled out and turned in as -5.

So many opportunities to say things, but didn't. Not sure why. A real failure on my part. Even worse typing this all out and agan realizing all the failed opportunities to stand up for myself as an honorable person and other friends of mine in the group. I was weak and latched onto this idea that I didn't want to be known as "that guy" by a person I hardly knew.

I've taken the opportunity and explained to my wife and kids what their husband and dad did for no apparent reason. As some lesson, but it hasn't eased my conscience or continuous thinking about the things I could have done to avert this situation...

I'm at a crossroads. My conscience is kicking my tail, because I am not the person I chose to be on Sunday - even though I am because I did not intervene. The money has been paid out. The results are "final". The score of -7 didn't end up affecting the tourney or Calcutta results. Our legit -5 produces the same results (makes me not speaking up look even more stupid). The -5 did, and kept one team from getting 2nd in the Tourney (got 3rd) and another from getting 2nd in Calcutta (a few others from tying for 3rd).

I know two of the Board Members of the Golf Course really well. Should I tell on myself, or leave it be at this point and accept the reality that I am scum and move on?
GigEm17J
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If no money was won in the change of score I say let it be and move on. We all have had similar situations in life/golf where we should have said something but didn't. Just use it as inspiration to stand up for yourself next time right away.
DargelSkout
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We all make mistakes, don't beat yourself up anymore than you already have. Just move on and don't be that guy that goes along with it next time.
Duckhook
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Didn't change your money but sounds like it might have changed others. It's water under the bridge now, but you absolutely have to say something the first time this is brought up.

I've only had something happen twice in my golf tournament history, but both times I said upfront "no, that's not the way we're going to play it". It's awkward for a little bit, but you know you did the right thing and they know they're wrong for bringing it up.

Learning experience for you. It's done. Don't dwell on it. You'll do the right thing next time and be a good example for somebody else if it should happen again.
DannyDuberstein
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Yeah, what's done is done at this point. But don't be shy to just say "nah, that doesn't work for me" in the future.
HouAggie
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The mistake you made is not looking at the scoreboard and not being the last to turn in your card. Clearly -7 wasn't good enough and you should have gone with -9 or -10 perhaps.
cab559
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Move on.
AustinCountyAg
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Reason #1 why I don't play in scrambles or most any tournaments at my home course or anywhere else for the most part with the goal of winning. The cheating and bending of rules is beyond ridiculous.

If I do play in a tournament or scramble I go in knowing I don't care what I/we shoot because in the end it's all BS.
rgt99
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I don't get why your partner made the deal, and when you didn't approve he said "you have to tell them then".

Why is your partner putting that on you? I think you need to find a new partner. Or just have talk with them and say that you don't appreciate being out in that situation

CapCity12thMan
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your partner is a d***
hunterjr81
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I hate when stuff like this happens. I struggle to answer questions like that initially as it is unexpected and my mind is trying to process it and how to respond without being a dick about it lol. I can be really brash so I try to be careful. It's probably why your partner initially agreed as he just couldn't process what was asked and just said sure.
cjsag94
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I'm really surprised at all the let it go, don't beat yourself up responses here.

I'm not necessarily saying go turn yourself in as that would likely bring consequences you don't want to face with the club, other golfers/friends, etc. You and 3 other guys straight up cheated at a game based on the honor system.

Btw, there are no gimmes in competitive Calcutta golf tournaments either.

You should absolutely be beating yourself up as you are. You should also beat up your friend/playing partner and make sure he feels worse than you. This is a regret I could never "let go of".
dcrewint
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I know this stuff goes on. I was ignorant of it until this year until some friends I play with regularly told me a few stories. It makes it difficult to sign up for "legit" MGA tournaments.

Not much to do about it at this point. Never do it again because you know how it made you feel afterwards. When your friend told you the deal, you should have had him go back and tell them no. When he didn't then you should have.

I hit a hole in one recently. Our club has a hole in one club. If you make one with another member present you get club credit from each member signed up for the club. For this particular hole in one I was solo when the ball dropped. 10 seconds later as I put my bag on my back a single behind me pulled up. I asked him if he would witness me pulling out the ball from the home so I had some "witness" for when my buddies give me crap for it. He told me he would tell the people in the clubhouse and the pro that he witnessed me hit the hole in one I told him thanks for the offer, but I'd have to pass. Reading your story confirms the reason why I did that. Because, even though I didn't cheat, I knew that I wasn't abiding by the rules set in place to protect other people from those claiming a hole in one falsely.

So, move on, don't do it again.
JCA1
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Interesting question. While I agree that you would like to see everyone be honest and play by the rules, it wouldn't surprise me if cheating is so rampant in these types of things that it's like MLB during the McGuire/Sosa/Bonds era or cycling during the Lance Armstrong era. If you're not cheating, you pretty much have no shot to compete. Puts honest people in a bind.
Ag83
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Quote:

Waiting on the 13th tee to clear, my partner states that the other team has "agreed" to give us a score of -6 if we give them a -4.

Reading this again, it seems your partner was the one who initially proposed the deal, not the opposing team. Is this correct?
bigfooticus
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High Meadow?
JimmyHouston
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Man...I hope not. I play in a lot of the High Meadow events and guess I have been naive enough that I thought doing 2 man events would mean little to no cheating. Its a real bummer to think this goes on during the Member/Guest tournament which is quite a bit of cash to play in.

Now when I play in a 4 man scramble tournament I just assume the winners cheat and look at it as just hanging with my friends & donating to a good cause. No point in getting worked up over people turning in 56s
JCA1
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JimmyHouston said:

Man...I hope not. I play in a lot of the High Meadow events and guess I have been naive enough that I thought doing 2 man events would mean little to no cheating. Its a real bummer to think this goes on during the Member/Guest tournament which is quite a bit of cash to play in.

Now when I play in a 4 man scramble tournament I just assume the winners cheat and look at it as just hanging with my friends & donating to a good cause. No point in getting worked up over people turning in 56s
Played in a scramble one time that Roger Clemens played in. It was a 4-man scramble, but he and his wife didn't want to be paired with anyone else so they went out as a twosome. They turned in a 56. Dude cheated at everything (and this is coming from an Astros fan).
hunterjr81
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Played a 2-man scramble before called superintendents revenge. Basically a fun tournament where the course is setup more difficult and the superintendents accidentally leave equipment and supplies on the course to make it harder. There is some money on the table for the top 3 teams in gross and net.

Well, on one hole the tee boxes were in front of the regular box on the downslope to make the tee shot a challenge. The other team in my group said we get 2 club lengths can move it back to where there is flat land. I said no I like the challenge hoping they would get the hint. They still backed up and played the flat area. I was a bit perplexed as the head pro announced before we got started to play where the tees were and we only get score card length relief.

We ended finishing 2nd gross score and 8th net. Guess we got out handicapped.
Yesterday
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When money is on the line it's stealing. No other way to put it. Tough situation and I won't judge you because I wasn't there. I would like to think that I would say "I want to win legitimately just so it's that much more fun."

Keep this in mind. When 4 people know about this, it's likely to get out. Don't be the one saying "I knew it was wrong and should have said something." Just my opinion.
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