ESPN: Nicklaus, Watson, Player favor rolling back golf ball distances

2,234 Views | 21 Replies | Last: 25 days ago by The Milkman
ColoradoMooseHerd
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Nicklaus, Watson, Player favor rolling back golf ball distance - ESPN

This has been an issue I have been saying a long time about rolling back the distances, but I have not said just with the golf ball. I believe some of the advancements in technology have made hitting much longer distances, too easy (Ball, Grooves, Shafts, Driver Heads, putters, etc). But the way golf is driven by equipment manufacturers, it will be very difficult to change.

In sports like Baseball, Football, Basketball, Soccer, etc. The sport regulates much of the equipment already, by supplying the balls and closing regulating the technology allowed and the specs on equipment. At least much more than golf has. Yes, golf does have some regulations on equipment, but we must all agree that the changes in equipment/ball technology have dramatically changed the game from where we were just a few years ago, let alone decades ago.

Overall, baseball, football, basketball and soccer use relatively the same equipment with some distinct changes. But the nfl has not tried to change the football so that players could throw it further in the air. Baseball has even tried to roll things back with baseballs that are less lively. In soccer, they have added some texture and features that have allowed players to bend the ball easier, but I have not seen anything that is a major problem.

In most cases, in the other sports the big technology advances have been with safety or enforcement of rules by using instant replay or new hawkeye technology to call balls & strikes or in or out.

What is your thoughts on rolling the ball back as the article states. I am a fan.
khaos288
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I have no idea how the engineering works, but if they can find a way to limit just the top end, that would be ideal. The amount of money and effort people have spent trying to dial in custom clubs and what not would hurt adoption from amateurs.
_lefraud_
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Augusta could set the precedent. They have the resources and "don't give a damn" to design a "Masters" golf ball and could force all the participants to play it for the week. Or at the very least, tell the manufacturers these are the specs, and to conform.

From there other Majors/tournaments and hopefully, the PGAT would fall in line with rolling back the golf ball. The manufacturers could/would still make hand over fist selling the other stuff to everyone else.
CyclingAg82
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khaos288 said:

I have no idea how the engineering works, but if they can find a way to limit just the top end, that would be ideal. The amount of money and effort people have spent trying to dial in custom clubs and what not would hurt adoption from amateurs.

Agree with you on limiting this rollback to the Pros and Ultra Elite amateurs (college etc).

For the average golfer the current ball / club technology works just fine.

Bifurcation is where this is going, IMO.
98Ag99Grad
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Quote:

Bifurcation is where this is going, IMO.

100% agree this should be done. I'd much prefer them limit the driver head size than mess with the ball.
The Milkman
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I can't understand how anyone would be against rolling back equipment for pros. Shrink their driver head. The best in the world should not be playing with the most forgiving equipment. Bobby Mac has admitted he tries to miss off the toe to draw the ball and on the heel to fade it. The equipment should not forgiving enough for them to purposefully mi**** it and not be punished.

Shohei doesn't get a metal bat and no high school kid is less interested in the game because "they aren't playing the same equipment".
Aggie95
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Course architects and tour officials could have helped this a long time ago instead of stressing 7500+ yard courses….use rough, smaller fairways, etc.
Duckhook
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CyclingAg82 said:

khaos288 said:

I have no idea how the engineering works, but if they can find a way to limit just the top end, that would be ideal. The amount of money and effort people have spent trying to dial in custom clubs and what not would hurt adoption from amateurs.

Agree with you on limiting this rollback to the Pros and Ultra Elite amateurs (college etc).

For the average golfer the current ball / club technology works just fine.

Bifurcation is where this is going, IMO.

I agree that bifurcation is where it SHOULD go, but I'm skeptical that it will. How do you convince the manufacturers to do the R&D and manufacturing for that 1% of golfers? I know they probably wouldn't do this, but what if Titleist just said "we'll give up supplying tour players and just keep making the balls we're making right now for the 25 million golfers not affected." For that matter, what if the PGA Tour and PGA of America come out and say they're not going to follow the new rules.

The governing bodies seem pretty opposed to bifurcation right now. I guess if it were to happen the manufacturers would just pass on the cost of that extra R&D and manufacturing to us. Right now I'm just hoping that the claims of minimal distance loss to amateurs is true.
The Milkman
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They're opposed because of OEMs like Titleist forcing them to be opposed, rather than the good of the game.
birdman
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People act like bifurcation is some crazy idea. It's not. It happens in lots of other sports.

British Open used a different size golf ball in my lifetime. Americans could use either size when they travelled to play The Open. And most Americans switched to smaller ball.
Sooper Jeenyus
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It isn't just the ball or the equipment, it's the athletes.

I like the idea of limiting the size of the driver head, but you can change the ball and guys will still figure out how to hit it further, IF that's what the game rewards.

Set up the course so accuracy, not distance, is most rewarded and players will conform.
JCA1
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The players today are better athletes, no doubt. But my understanding of the issue is not so much that today's clubs and balls add length (although they do), it's that they're so forgiving, these guys don't pay a huge price for mis-hits. So guys can swing out of their shoes and are confident that they won't pay a steep price if they catch it off the toe, etc.

Not sure what to do about that but I don't like that the line between the pure ball strikers and the mediocre ball strikers is being minimized by tech. Pretty sure guys like Wyndham Clark wouldn't be winning US Opens without modern equipment.
AgLA06
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CyclingAg82 said:

khaos288 said:

I have no idea how the engineering works, but if they can find a way to limit just the top end, that would be ideal. The amount of money and effort people have spent trying to dial in custom clubs and what not would hurt adoption from amateurs.

Agree with you on limiting this rollback to the Pros and Ultra Elite amateurs (college etc).

For the average golfer the current ball / club technology works just fine.

Bifurcation is where this is going, IMO.

I don't see it.

PGAT money and innovation drive billions of dollars in equipment innovations through R&D.

The regular Joe isn't going to be insulated from these effects regardless of what they say.
GoAgs92
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make them play with balls from Top Golf.

nothing better than crushing a drive and barely making it to the back net.
The Milkman
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Exactly. If they weren't playing with 460cc driver heads, absolutely no one would be going at the ball hard enough to to generate these types of club head and ball speeds. They pay no price for missing the center of the clubface.

I recently rewatched the 86 Masters on Youtube. It was outstanding and you saw some really squirrely shots from the best players in the world because the equipment don't cover up a mistake nearly as much. Not to mention the fact that the guys were hitting 4 irons into holes that Rory has a flip wedge into.

Anyone who cares about the game of golf should want to see the best in the world truly highlight their skill set. Not to mention seeing the courses play the way they were designed.
CyclingAg82
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Duckhook said:

CyclingAg82 said:

khaos288 said:

I have no idea how the engineering works, but if they can find a way to limit just the top end, that would be ideal. The amount of money and effort people have spent trying to dial in custom clubs and what not would hurt adoption from amateurs.

Agree with you on limiting this rollback to the Pros and Ultra Elite amateurs (college etc).

For the average golfer the current ball / club technology works just fine.

Bifurcation is where this is going, IMO.

I agree that bifurcation is where it SHOULD go, but I'm skeptical that it will. How do you convince the manufacturers to do the R&D and manufacturing for that 1% of golfers? I know they probably wouldn't do this, but what if Titleist just said "we'll give up supplying tour players and just keep making the balls we're making right now for the 25 million golfers not affected." For that matter, what if the PGA Tour and PGA of America come out and say they're not going to follow the new rules.

The governing bodies seem pretty opposed to bifurcation right now. I guess if it were to happen the manufacturers would just pass on the cost of that extra R&D and manufacturing to us. Right now I'm just hoping that the claims of minimal distance loss to amateurs is true.

Good point. I think that is the conversation going on right now. Fred Ridley said the Masters is behind the ball rollback, He and Rolapp spent some time discussing this issue. Will be interesting to see how this develops.
CyclingAg82
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AgLA06 said:

CyclingAg82 said:

khaos288 said:

I have no idea how the engineering works, but if they can find a way to limit just the top end, that would be ideal. The amount of money and effort people have spent trying to dial in custom clubs and what not would hurt adoption from amateurs.

Agree with you on limiting this rollback to the Pros and Ultra Elite amateurs (college etc).

For the average golfer the current ball / club technology works just fine.

Bifurcation is where this is going, IMO.

I don't see it.

PGAT money and innovation drive billions of dollars in equipment innovations through R&D.

The regular Joe isn't going to be insulated from these effects regardless of what they say.

Another very good point.
ColoradoMooseHerd
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Very good points from a lot of people the thread. I do not play near as much golf as I used to and do not follow the technology much at all anymore. For me it needs to be both the driver heads need to be regulated and the ball.
RogerFurlong
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I wonder what golf would like that if they would have taken the MLB route and not allowed metal woods. Would be super interesting what engineers would have figured out with wooden clubs. I know cricket bats use a specific wood only found in England.
AggieInHouston
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I'd be really disappointed to see bifurcation. I love that we all play (or can play) the same equipment, from the top pros to the lowest ams.
_lefraud_
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Why?
The Milkman
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AggieInHouston said:

I'd be really disappointed to see bifurcation. I love that we all play (or can play) the same equipment, from the top pros to the lowest ams.


But we don't. They have different equipment that isn't publicly available.

Every other sport is bifurcated and plays by different rules than amateurs. In the NFL they play with a bigger ball and smaller uprights. In the MLB they use wood bats and the seams are lower.
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