My probable future son in law is graduating this month. He wants to go into the Marines via enlistment.

I don't want to get into his business, but can someone give me insight into why he would enlist rather than enter as an officer? Admittedly I am less than knowledgeable in military matters. Thanks in advance.

In the current environment of a force drawdown and the resulting smaller classes of 2ndLts at the The Basic School he might not have been able to get a commissioning contract. The ebbs and flows of recruiting move the cut-line for who gets a contract and who does not. His GPA, physical fitness test score, or something else under the categories of mental, moral, medical, physical fitness, and academic qualifications could have made enlisting his only viable option if he wants to be a Marine.

Is it possible that he just wants to serve for a short term, then move on to another career? If so, I can see enlisting as opposed to commission.

Has he looked into OCS? He likely meets the age requirement and will have a degree. He can experience boot camp but come out as an officer on the other end once all his schools are done. That's the way to go.

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Has he looked into OCS? He likely meets the age requirement and will have a degree. He can experience boot camp but come out as an officer on the other end once all his schools are done

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The only commissioning option in the Marine Corps for a recent or soon to be college graduate who has not previously contracted under ROTC or Platoon Leaders Course is the Officer Candidates Course which is a 12 week OCS that leads to commissioning and The Basic School. Class seats for OCC are extremely competitive in the current drawdown since the Marine Corps can afford to screen out all but the best qualified. I would guess that scoring a 285 on the PFT and a 3.0 GPR is probably a fair guess at where one needs to be to be considered for OCC right now.

The Marine Corps does not have a direct commissioning program that sends recent graduates of boot camp to OCS. Programs such as ECP, MECEP, and Meritorious Commissioning Program are all reserved for NCOs.

I agree

Is he going into the reserves? Being a marine reservist these days is not a huge commitment.

I also second what others were saying about the difficulty of getting a contract these days. Maybe he did not get accepted.

when did OCC go to 12 weeks?

just a comment from the peanut gallery, but if I could go back in time I wouldn't have accepted a commission. PL time in Iraq and commanding a previously-terrible company were rewarding, but 90% of what I do is mental masturbation.

I've even tried to resign my commission to enlist, but my branch won't let me go. I spent 27 months as a PL and 26 months as a company commander, other than that I have not been doing "army stuff" (which is why I joined). Even in the darknet parts of the Army I wasn't doing the fun stuff the enlisted members were. I currently work in a 4-star's CIG, which is the most useless brand of officer self-promotion you could imagine (and it's a black book assignment).


[This message has been edited by Tango Mike (edited 12/19/2013 11:42a).]

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when did OCC go to 12 weeks?

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My mistake, typo.

I was enlisted because I was getting a double degree from A&M and could not finish in the prescribed 4+1 (deferment) period during Viet Nam. 5 years later (and Bootstrap and AFIT/AECP) I was an E-6 and took a direct commission into the Medical Service Corps.
My pay doubled!
If there is any reason more compelling than the pay angle I don't know what it is...
Going enlisted to get a commission later on purpose must be carefully thought through. From comments above more current than my experience that may not be possible - at least in the Marine Corps.
Joining the military is kind of like job hunting __ different branches of the service have different opportunities.
If a military record and a security clearance is the goal to be more competitive in the civilian market and a military career is not contemplated a 2-year hitch in the Army might be the way to go.
Just getting a job in today's marketplace might make the military appealing...
Starting a family - on purpose or not - might be a real good reason to get some benefits and perks and training available nowhere else.
Often, the training in the military - in the right field - is incomparable. Getting paid while learning and having security and family benefits can be really enticing for many reasons...

In 2002 I applied to OCS and was turned down because my goa wasn't competitive at 3.18.

I enlisted and was the "honor graduate" at infantry osut. From there went straight to jump school and somehow got noticed by an officer who approached me and said, have you considered OCS? My jaw dropped. A month later I was at OCS.

I have spent 19 years and 5 months in the Marine Corps as enlisted. I have loved every minute of it, but if I could do it all over again I would have tried to get commissioned.

I personally can't imagine a scenario where I had the possibility of a commission and saw the military as a career and did not pursue the commission. Just wanting to serve and not sure if it was for me long term is a different story.

There are tons of enlisted career fields in which individuals with degrees can excel and enjoy a very good lifestyle and work environment. For example in total compensation this year I ended up making 51000 dollars and if you account that a percentage is tax free (BAH) and health insurance is free for me and my family I conservatively estimate that a private company would have to pay me around 65000 to match my military salary. Coming out of college with a history degree I didn't exactly have a ton of people lining up to pay me 65k. Now I don't know if I'll stay in for 20 but as a 4 year taste of military life I've been taken care of pretty well and now speak multiple foreign languages and have a security clearance. In summation the stereotype that enlisted military members "don't get paid well" is false in some senses.

Of course officers get paid better but as was mentioned earlier in this thread life as an officer will include some grab ass assignments where you baby sit higher ranked officers. In the enlisted world you stand a good chance of actually working at your job for at least 10-15 years before they move you into a spot where you babysit.

I graduated in 2009 with a degree in International Studies. I worked a couple of years in sales and then decided to enlist in the Air Force for the experience and the hope of using the post 9-11 GI bill to study engineering. I'm heading to BMT at the end of January.

I didn't mean any offense when I used the term 'babysitting' I only meant that there is a good chance that senior officers will be constantly coming up with ideas and the junior officers have to implement them somehow.

For example we just got a directive in my unit that everyone must work 40-46 hours per week, sounds fair enough except our mission set has been scaled back dramatically and we only have 25-30 hours per week of mission to work. So our LT brought us together for a pow wow and we tried for an hour to figure out how to fill 10 hours a week on mids. So now we 'discuss' matters important to the air force, take care of ancillary training that is already done and read AFI's. The problem is that the real solution is to re-assign some of us to different missions but the senior officers don't want to lose billets so the LT's have to find some way to make us seem busy with our current manning.

The work is definitely important that junior officers end up doing and helps the unit function. The reason I said what I said the way I did is because the op's original question had to do with why someone would choose enlisted as opposed to commissioning. In my opinion the type of work done is an important factor in why you choose one over the other. I could try to commission but I'm incredibly happy right now because my skill set is very valuable in and out of the air force, officers don't get the language training or target expertise I have. (at least in the air force)

The other thing to keep in mind is my view and every one else's view is skewed by their individual experiences. Each career field, base, command will function just a bit differently and may lead to different experiences.

[This message has been edited by AggieEP (edited 12/23/2013 2:25p).]

toperhag, if you don't mind me asking what career field are you heading into? Any questions I can help answer for you before you head out?

The contract I signed is for open electronics. Do you know of any particular AFSC's that I should try to avoid?

the best thing about being an officer is that you get to tell people to do things and they have to do it or they get in trouble

Going officer is extremely difficult right now. I spoke with my OSO (Officer Selection Officer) before I reported to TBS in October and a 3.5 or better and a 300 (or very close) PFT are pretty much the norm for candidates right now. Not that it should turn him away from the officer route, but it is something to consider.

topher-

If I were you I would pick an exact AFSC and book that job. You get to list 7 when you go into MEPS but you can explain to your recruiter that you are very interested in doing "x" job or list the 7 electronics jobs that sound best to you. The thing that slightly worried me about going open was that if the particular week that jobs dropped all they had available for you was "job y" you pretty much had to take it and be happy with it. At this point you have a leave date for basic so your recruiter will probably not be too excited to re-do the process for you but once you go to basic you have zero leverage to get the job that you want until it's time to re-train (3 years in) if you want to stay in. My main point here is that say for example there is a worst possible job in electronics, well if that's the only one open the week jobs are being given out at basic then that is what they'll assign you and there is no lee way for the most part.

Of course this is all dependent on what you want out of the air force. If you want the GI Bill and have a chance to be stationed almost anywhere then open would be fine. But I would still suggest looking through all the different AFSC's that are offered and if possible find the CFETP for that afsc and it will give you extremely detailed info about what you'd be doing.

for example here is a CFETP for an electronics job I just picked randomly-

http://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/saf_cio_a6/publication/cfetp3d0x4/cfetp3d0x4.pdf

All you have to know is go to air force pubs and search CFETP and all of them that aren't classified will come up.

also there is a site called afforums.com that has a lot of good info on some jobs and air force related stuff.



As far as AFSC's to avoid, all of them will have pros and cons so I can't tell you what to avoid. Especially in electronics pretty much all of them will teach you some interesting specialized skills.



[This message has been edited by AggieEP (edited 12/23/2013 5:57p).]

The reasons I've seen are

• choice of job MOS
• Length of enlistment
• afraid of responsibility
• student loan forgiveness

One guy I worked with did a two year enlistment because it offered the most GI Bill + Army College fund dollars per year.

A guy in my outfit in The Aggie Band enlisted USMC because he wanted to be a Military Working Dog handler.

If you want all the hooah badges and schools, the opportunities are much better enlisted versus officer.

And I've seen a couple situations where a top performing enlisted guy just flat out didn't want to tackle the extra responsibility and hassle associated with being an officer.

Long story short, just because he doesn't want to try to be an officer shouldn't be a red flag.

Some enlisted non-coms, including some who have the quals, do not want to be commissioned officers. Some aspire to advance to E-8 or E-9. Some want to be a Command Sergeant Major, a Command Master Chief or Command Chief Master Sgt. And each service has one top enlisted person at a time: Sergeant Major of the Army or Marines; Master Chief of the Navy or Coast Guard; and Chief Master Sergeant of the Air Force. These people are doing what they want to do--it's who they are.

Either way. Thanks for the service

E-8 Air Force here with 21 years of service...either way is good. Just make sure you get everything you can out of the experience. Education is extremely important for time in the military and out of the military. Money is not everything. You cannot put a price tag on happiness so find a job you love and do it to the best of your ability. Take advantage of the benefits and make sure you leave whatever job you do better than when you got there. It goes by so fast, so enjoy the ride. I completed my MBA degree a few years back, so if I did it, anyone can.