The movie Lone Survivor has obviously been a topic on most social media platforms. I stumbled across the facebook page of an acquaintance from high school where his wife had posted that they watched this movie. She said that it was very emotional, and even more so because (she implied that) her husband was a former Seal. He chimed in to the conversation, and never bothered to correct her.

I'm not saying that this guy couldn't have been a Seal, but he dropped out of high school. Made the news a few years later because he was caught up in some sort of a situation where his mom had written a check to a diploma mill (they showed a copy of the check on the news) to print him a high school diploma so that he could enter the Navy.

If the guy wants to embellish stories, I don't really care. But an all out lie like this bothers me. Anyone know of any sites where you can look former Special Forces members up to confirm whether or not he was a Seal?

You should contact Don Shipley at Extreme SEAL Experience. He researches guys to check the validity of their claims, and then absolutely hammers the ones he finds out are frauds.

The SEALs have it wired really tight when it comes to finding impostors. Post a note on that Facebook thread asking him what his BUDS class number was. If he refuses to reply or acknowledge it then you have your answer. If he does post a class number the former SEAL community will verify it almost immediately probably without even having to ask them.

Thanks...i'll contact Don Shipley.


[This message has been edited by Army01 (edited 1/14/2014 9:23p).]

http://sofrep.com/4620/the-scourge-of-navy-seal-imposters-part-one-2/

Yep, contact Don Shipley

Can also go to stolenValor.com

It always amazes me that the stolen valor types don't go for the little lies....they go for the great big ones.

Of course, I met a liar who claimed he was about to receive a MOH for Iraq. Took me in, but my mistake was assuming that the military men that he had already snookered had done a good job in vetting him. This included a retired O-7 Ranger and a retired Navy Chief.

He spoke at a gathering where we happened to be sitting with the parents of an Air Force KIA from Iraq. Makes his lies even worse.

Ulysses90 - great link. I had to laugh at some of the phony detection stories.

For the OP, sounds like your female friend might have been told a story which she extrapolated and got too big for him to deny. Or, he's just a plain liar.

I once did a consulting gig in KC, MO where I worked with an old medically retired Navy guy. He had all this SEAL stuff in his cube including an appreciation plaque from SERE. This was 2001 or so and I had seen GI Jane so I knew what SERE was. I asked him about it and he told me that he had been a Navy Corpsman and he had provided medical support at the SERE school. He did say that he had to go through the torture training to work there providing medical support. Or something like that. Anyway, like I said, he had all this SEAL stuff around his cube but when asked about it, he told the truth.

I worked with a guy in Australia who told me about when he was in the Army and was training with the Australian SAS. As you can imagine, that's a small community. So one night at the bar, a co-worker asks this guy when he was in the SAS and if he knew so and so. The guy was very forthright about it and said that he had trained with the SAS but got injured during qualification and he never actually became part of the SAS.

So, I'd give the guy a chance to come clean privately or over drinks before blasting his name/pic all over the Interwebs. You never know if the SEAL bit was just a line he used to get your friend in the sack and thought she'd forget about it. OTOH - if he is a lying sack of **** then he should be outed.



[This message has been edited by HollywoodBQ (edited 1/14/2014 8:11p).]

reminds me of this ***** nozzle. Made the A&M administration look kinda dumb. http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Top-A-M-official-quits-after-admitting-resume-lie-1601605.php

quote:

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It always amazes me that the stolen valor types don't go for the little lies....they go for the great big ones.

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About four years ago I was stationed in Orlando (really nice work of you can get it) at the research park on the UCF campus. All the branches of the military assigned there were attending the dedication of a Veteran's memorial for former students. VADM Al Harms (FTAC '78 M.S. in Statistics and XO of the Naval ROTC at A&M) was officiating the ceremony. Each branch of service had a distinguished local Veteran in attendance as a guest of honor and one by one their biographies were read to the audience. Each one was impressive and they included a Sgt who had ridden a glider into France on D-Day and a Marine SSgt with a pretty impressive combat history in Korea. They read the bios before announcing the name and asking the Veterans to stand.

When they get to guy from the Air Force the description was so unbelievably over the top I was just shaking my head because it was going to be really embarrassing when they found out that they had been hoaxed by an imposter. VADM Harms just kept reading this incredible list of achievements and I was in disbelief that he kept going. The list started off something like this.

"Our honored guest from the US Air Force held 9 Guiness World records at one time and still holds six of them. He flew 483 combat mission of North Vietnam, was shot down and spent 11 months as a POW. He has been awarded TWO Silver Stars, TWO Legions of Merit, and TWO Distinguished Flying Crosses, THREE Bronze Stars with Valor device, a bloody ****load of Air Medals, TWO Purple Hearts..." and the list went on

Anyway, when they finally get to the end of the list and announce the name of the man, it was Colonel "Jumping Joe" Kittinger. In the flesh. I don't know how that guy would even begin to start trying to tell a BS story about combat heroics because it wouldn't sound too different from his real life exploits.

quote:

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Ulysses90 - great link. I had to laugh at some of the phony detection stories.

For the OP, sounds like your female friend might have been told a story which she extrapolated and got too big for him to deny. Or, he's just a plain liar.

So, I'd give the guy a chance to come clean privately or over drinks before blasting his name/pic all over the Interwebs. You never know if the SEAL bit was just a line he used to get your friend in the sack and thought she'd forget about it. OTOH - if he is a lying sack of **** then he should be outed.



[This message has been edited by HollywoodBQ (edited 1/14/2014 8:11p).]

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Thanks, Hollywood. I needed an outsiders perspective. Never was friends with him, but I've known this guy since I was probably 10 years old, so I naturally lean towards him making the whole story up. Never have met his wife.

I can't imagine marrying someone with such a big lie hanging out there.

No problem. The other thing I was thinking of (I thought that you knew her, not him) was that if the spouse who didn't serve is the one telling the story, it often times gets screwed up.

For example, I worked with a guy whose wife had served in the USAF. To hear him tell about what she did, it was at Edwards AFB and was top secret classified stuff and she was one of the only people who could do the work, etc. He had her pretty much single-handedly engineering one of the now famous UAVs all by herself.

The only problem with her story is that a HS buddy of mine actually did in fact work on the development that particular UAV. So, I got the chance to talk to her one time about what she did in the USAF and we discussed her UAV. I mentioned a few of the things my HS friend told me and it was all new news to her. The funniest part was that she really didn't understand what I was trying to explain to her about the navigation and why they had problems at high latitudes during the initial flight testing when they flew it to Alaska and back.

Anyway, long story short, this was a case where the husband who didn't serve but was from a family with a military service background, thought it was super awesome and super patriotic that his wife did serve so... he 'embellished' a bit.

And Rule #1

I agree with Aggiebrewer. I had the opportunity a few years back to meet Paul Howe. He was a Delta Trooper that was in Somalia when the Blackhawks went down. He was still built like a brick out house, and very reserved. Not boastful at all.

I didn't serve, but stories like this always remind me of a couple of guys I hut with. Both were Marines, one was a S/S, so it was always fun to get in shooting matches with him. We had a new guy come out to the lease a few years ago, hunted in fatigues, with an AR, battle strap included, AR painted in camo, scope with the duct tape sunshade on it (I mean, who doesn't need to conceal themselves from deer that might see the reflection of your scope in the sun and fire back these days?), etc.. He was a 300+ lb guy. Claimed to be a Marine around the campfire one night, went through all this detail about what he was done. So when the two Marines, who were boiling about this time, asked him about the Crucible, the conversation got really awkward for him......

Some of us old farts predate the crucible. But then I don't go full tactitard when I go hunting.

I've noticed this trend lately. Where these guys that were never in the military like to go out to their deer leases and post pictures of themselves all decked out in multicam and all the latest tactical gear. Of course they all have every single attachment known to man on their AR's. I'll also see some of these wannabes wear nothing but 5.11 gear. A few of these posers I know will even go as far as critiquing mout tactics. It just makes me kinda chuckle on the inside that these guys want to be a part of the gun club so bad but will just keep on playing gi joe on the weekend.

Rant Over.

I've got a guy that I'm curious about. My sister-in-laws step father has claimed before that he was a SEAL back in the old days (Vietnam era but I'm not sure what years). The guy is a nice guy and not a total ****** about it but he's said things, and told stories that just don't completely jive in my mind....especially when it comes to what I know about other SEALs.

I'm conflicted. I don't want the guy embarrassed (neither publicly or privately), but for my own curiosity, I'd like to know if the claims are true. To my knowledge, he hasn't used the claim to get a job, one up anyone, etc., he's just used it to tell some stories around the dinner table...

So is their a way to find out without "ruining" the guy if his claims aren't true? Or if I go the route listed earlier, am I pretty much opening him up to some kind of scrutiny from people other than myself?

If it's just for your curiosiy, let it go. Will cause more problems than it's worth. SEAL community is very small, the subset who were UDT or SEAL in Vietnam is miniscule. 10000 to 1 odds that he was not a SEAL.

And can't you go online and pull the service records of anyone for any reason? If you can't let it go, just do that.

Link, have pop-up blocker on

quote:

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As of the current Census taken during August, 2000, the surviving U.S. Vietnam veteran population estimate is: 1,002,511...

During this Census count, the number of Americans falsely claiming to have served in-country is: 13,853,027. By this census, FOUR OUT OF FIVE WHO CLAIM TO BE Vietnam vets are not.

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How old is the guy, by the way? I'm 58, and there are only 3 guys on The Wall who are younger than me. We were essentially out of Vietnam by the time I left high school in 1973, and officially out by 1975.

I always laugh at the "Homeless Vietnam Vets" I see begging for money who are obviously younger than I.

Pretty sure this guy is in his 60's. How does someone pull service records for someone?

This may seem weird, but I almost want to be wrong because I find myself having trouble trusting anything the guy says due to my own doubts about his service claims. I've known the guy for around 10 years now and have felt had my doubts about this for as long as I can remember. I finally mentioned something to my wife about it a year or two back and she admitted to having some of the same questions I have.

It's going to be hard to let it go because I don't think I'll ever be able to look at him without the doubts. I'd like the doubts to be confirmed or denied so I can know what I'm dealing with and for my own peace of mind.

Yeah I realize the Vietnam numbers can e skewed greatly. My own father in law was in the army during that time but never set foot in Vietnam. He ran an officers club in South Korea for the majority of his stretch if I'm not mistaken. But if he's talking to someone about military background, I've heard him make statements like "Yeah I served during the Vietnam war." Or "back when I was in the army...during Vietnam." He's pretty good about not saying he was out in the bush, but if you're not listening closely, it can come across as he was there.

brewer, all I know is that several of these stolen valor cases have been outed by people pulling their records. I don't know how detailed or redacted the reports ar, but they can figure out your service dates and assignments, at least

With a properly submitted FOIA you can get enough info to blow big holes in the story of an impostor.

http://www.archives.gov/st-louis/military-personnel/foia-info.html

quote:

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The Freedom of Information Act, or FOIA (5 U.S.C. 552, as amended), generally provides any person with the statutory right, enforceable in court, to obtain access to Government information in executive branch agency records. This right to access is limited when such information is protected from disclosure by one of FOIA's nine statutory exemptions. Click for more information on the Provisions of the Freedom of Information Act.

FOIA and Official Military Personnel Files (OMPF)

The public has access to certain military service information without the veteran's authorization or that of the next-of-kin (the un-remarried widow or widower, son, daughter, father, mother, brother or sister) of deceased veterans. Examples of information which may be available from Federal (non-archival) Official Military Personnel Files (OMPF) without an unwarranted invasion of privacy include:

Name

Service Number

Dates of Service

Branch of Service

Final Duty Status

Final Rank

Salary *

Assignments and Geographical Locations

Source of Commission *

Military Education Level

Promotion Sequence Number *

Awards and decorations (eligibility only, not actual medals)

Photograph

Transcript of Courts-Martial Trials

Place of entrance and separation

If the veteran is deceased:

Place of birth

Date and geographical location of death

Place of burial

*Items rarely available in the records we maintain.
FOIA and Official Personnel Folders (OPF)

Most information in a Federal (non-archival) Official Personnel Folder (OPF) is not releasable to the general public without the written consent of the individual whose record is involved. The Freedom of Information Act does allow, however, for certain information to be released without the individual's consent. The Office of Personnel Management (OPM) has determined that the following information can be released to the public:

Name

Past and present positions

Past and present titles

Past and present salaries

Past and present grades

Past and present job locations

---

One of my favorite quotes.

"Only 500 SEALs served in Vietnam. And I've met all 20,000 of them."

Steve Robinson, a former SEAL in Forsyth, Mo.

On this general subject, here's a question for the group.

When my Dad died, we had him buried at DFW National Cemetery per his request. All the paperwork went in to the Cemetery/VA, etc. All was approved and he was buried no problem. A few weeks later, his stone/marker was placed and oddly, it had a notation: "KOREA". Well, my Dad never served in Korea...and never claimed to. While Korea was going down, he had the good fortune to serve as a Heavy Construction Platoon Leader and EN BN Adjutant in SOUTHWEST FRANCE (Bordeaux!).

Question: While his dates of active duty DO include the period in which the Korean War occurred--why would the VA/Cemetery put "Korea" on his marker when he never set foot in Korea? I mean, by that measure, they might put "Desert Storm" on my marker, because I was still in the IRR when Sadam invaded Kuwait?

I'm curious if anyone else has noticed this kind of thing...or done anything about it?

[This message has been edited by DogCo84 (edited 1/21/2014 6:46a).]

In 1968 I took off from college and went pipelining in northern Minnesota. The "spread" moved up to Thief River Falls from Bemidji and set up in a steel building that was half occupied by the upholstery works of Artic Cat. I was the hey boy for the parts man so was around there a lot. I noticed an Artic Cat hand that brought a guitar with him every day; at lunchtime he would strum it. He was a crew cut medium sized fellow in coveralls, hair going grey. He didn't make any kind of production at all. Had it not been for the guitar I wouldn't have paid any attention. Then one noontime I noticed it was a Martin. At this my interest was piqued because Martin guitars are not Sears and Roebuck Specials. Ambling over to where he sat I noticed on the lid of his open guitar case a brass plaque, maybe 1 1/2 X 2 1/2. Leaning over, I read "To (I can't remember his name) from the Officers and Men of Seal Team II". I had no idea what a seal team was. Over the next whatever period of time we got to where we'd speak a little; he wasn't outgoing but he wasn't closed off, either. One lunch break we were just sitting there and I asked him what a seal team did. He said they'd lie by a trail in the jungle and when a -- I can't remember if he said VC or NVA -- came down the trail they'd ZAP'IM. The reason I've remembered this insignificant encounter all these years is that, when he said ZAP'IM his voice and his eyes changed, just for that split second. I never saw anything like it before and haven't since, but I instantly caught it. It was the first time, having many times thought back over it, I realized there are people with depths not only unrecognized, but unsuspected by the run of "normal" people. I feel sure that fellow lived out his time as a "hand" at Artic Cat, really known only to his family, maybe, and the officers and men of Seal Team II.

Dogco84 - I served in 1954-1956 and served in Germany.

Was eligible for Korean AND VietNam War benefits !

Probably because he served during that time or later, Va put "KOREA " on his monument - meaning served during Korean War which for legal purposes lasted far beyond actual combat time.

Just a guess.

DogCo84

We buried my in-laws at DFW National in December. We had to approve the marker, before it was ordered. Did the paperwork not say Korea? If not, I'll he curious to see if they do the same to my Father-in-law.

CBatt:

As I recall for my Dad, we approved the way his name was listed (his DD214 incorrectly listed him as a "Jr." rather than a "III") and the personal statement allowed. All other formatting/verbiage was done by the VA/Cemetery. If they had mentioned that it would say "KOREA", I would have objected--as would have my Dad.

Here's a photo:

In the line of never knowing what to believe. I had an elderly man named Kit Murray volunteer to work at a campground on one of the lakes I worked on. We wasn't very big maybe 5'4" or 5'6". Very nice and polite and was always very attentive to details. his wife was also a volunteer and she was a laugh a minute. Very nice couple.

One day I had a meeting with Kit and some other elderly men who were in his equestrian riding group. Kit was late and I asked about him. His friends said "Dont worry about Kit. He's been without oxygen one too many times". I asks what did that mean. They said "he was one of those rocket men, like Chuck Yaeger". Well that got me going. This was in the early days of the internet so there was no Google. I researched books in the libraries and low and behold. I was working with a REAL LIVE rocket man. Old Kit Murray was none other than Lt Col. Arthur Murray (Ret.) of the United States Air Force.

Sometimes you never know.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_K._Murray

His Flight records and his "World Records"
http://www.astronautix.com/astros/murray.htm


[This message has been edited by Rabid Cougar (edited 2/13/2014 11:59a).]