**THIS IS COMPLETE RUMOR AT THIS POINT**

Someone claiming to have a well placed source at A&M is saying that starting with the 2015-2016 school year, ALL outfits will be mandated to be coed.

Again, it is a rumor. Thoughts?

Rumor. There are not enough females for that to happen.

Let's say hypothetically this is true.


Based on an estimated 300 women in the Corps (please someone with more knowledge of the number let me know I based 300 on the Corps recruiting page) and roughly 38 outfits (excluding V-1 and Delta Company) that would lead to roughly 8 women per outfit.


8 female cadets per outfit would mean an average of 2 per class. To me this creates an issue for retention (IMO). If one of the females leaves, now the other female is alone in the class as the only female. What if the two females do not get along at all? Will they still be forced to live together for 4 years?


I am not at all against the idea that if a female chooses to join an all male outfit she shouldn't be denied the opportunity. However, forcing integration of all outfits seems to create more problems.

Just my opinion on the hypothetical rumor

As of right now there are 282 females in the Corps. The number grows a bit each year so by that year there will be around 300-325

Wait a minute... is this an old rumor being recycled from 1994?

I just love it when people send me Internet chain Email that I first saw in the 1990s.

The Corps is just like high school. So much drama and rumors going around.

you can't go just by raw numbers of women, because for the last several years the Band has been about 20% female. Those female cadets aren't really "eligible" to be transferred to another outfit purely for the sake of gender integration.

It's not just a question of how many females there are in the Corps... it's how many non-BQ females are there. When those numbers get up, then you can start talking about gender integration of all the non-Band outfits.

quote:

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Let's say hypothetically this is true.


Based on an estimated 300 women in the Corps (please someone with more knowledge of the number let me know I based 300 on the Corps recruiting page) and roughly 38 outfits (excluding V-1 and Delta Company) that would lead to roughly 8 women per outfit.


8 female cadets per outfit would mean an average of 2 per class. To me this creates an issue for retention (IMO). If one of the females leaves, now the other female is alone in the class as the only female. What if the two females do not get along at all? Will they still be forced to live together for 4 years?


I am not at all against the idea that if a female chooses to join an all male outfit she shouldn't be denied the opportunity. However, forcing integration of all outfits seems to create more problems.

Just my opinion on the hypothetical rumor

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Not to mention women on major unit staffs

This same rumor was posted this last fall (on the thread about some outfit being integrated and how it will destroy the corps etc etc ).

I am not saying gender integration will destroy the Corps. I am just pointing out the fact that we would end up with less then 2 per class (thank you for those that added the notes about Band females, and MU staffs who wouldn't count toward the number). I just do not see the logic behind it

There is no logic in doing it which is why it's not happening. Outfits are being integrated slowly as the numbers allow for it.

The hypothetical year Commandant staff has thrown out is 2020 as far as integration across the quad. I am sure with enough frustration in donors integration will slow down in progress especially with outfits like E-1, E-2, Sq. 17. However, if there isn't enough resistance coming from important donors then the rest is history...

OK. Just to ensure you get the right information about this subject from a CREDIBLE source, let me say unequivocally that this is a pure RUMOR with no basis of fact behind it.

There is NO intent to try and gender integrate all units in the Corps next year, and I have NEVER stated that I plan to gender integrate the entire Corps by 2020. Not sure where these ridiculous rumors get started, but I can assure you as the Commandant that there is absolutely NO TRUTH to either of those rumors.

Hopefully this will put an end to these random posts about gender integration of ALL Corps units next year. I expect we will have all male outfits for the foreseeable future and most likely for as long as we have a Corps of Cadets.

Any more questions or concerns about this subject? Please feel free to contact me at the Office of the Commandant. Always happy to "set the record straight." Thanks to all for your support of our Corps.

Yeah, but what do you know?

(kidding!)

The academies are integrated across the board. But they also have about 20% female enrollment. Even if anyone wanted to "100% gender integrate", it's not happening until the Corps (outside the Band) hits those numbers.

Sounds 'credible' to me. The SF is doing a GREAT job and deserves all our kudos. Well done.

Thanks for straightening that out Joe! Now get down and give me a class set just for general principles. I know you've done something to deserve it!

(I think every upperclassmen that has gone through the Corps has uttered those words at one time or another!)

Doing push-ups until you get tired, Sir!

I gave up after hearing Spider D was getting wags.

I heard that everyone who was not a minority female was getting kicked out of the corps.

quote:

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I gave up after hearing Spider D was getting wags.

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I'm sure all of the Devils would be glad to take the unit back!


[This message has been edited by DevilD77 (edited 3/3/2014 1:15p).]

There is only one true D-1...Spider D.

Steam Shower Crap Outs will be interesting

Give it a couple years if not true...it'll happen. Shouldn't be an issue with it either.

If you're gonna assign females to outfits then everyone is going to start getting assigned to their outfits as well. This would lead to fewer A list outfits but a stronger corps wide bond and less inter outfit adversity.

You were pretty much assigned to an outfit (by major) back in my day. Still lots of inter-unit rivalries.

in any event, we need to grow the Corps of Cadets, and the opportunity for both women and men. I for one have been very impressed with the students of the corps of cadets.

The new S-2 is coed.

I thought technically all outfits were already Co-ed, they just didn't have females in them.

I thought a few years back they stated that if a female wanted to join an outfit, she could as long as they had female representation in each class.

But I guess I thought wrong according to the General's post above

I don't know how it works elsewhere, but at USAFA they shuffle the deck between sophomore and junior year so every cadet goes to a new squadron. If a cadet has a legacy connection, they can choose the squadron they graduate from, but not the squadron they start in. All of the leadership (commanders, etc,) get shuffled to new people every semester.

I've occasionally wondered how such a model would work at A&M, or if it could work at all. There would be potential for a lot of benefit, but a lot of old Ags would probably raise so much hell it wouldn't be more than a fleeting thought.

Ryan, I suspect like everything else, people would eventually forget/get used to it and cry bloody murder when we switched back saying, "We've always done it this way."

Ryan, correct in ways, not in others. Wrong mainly in the timing of the shuffle.

All freshmen (4-digs) are assigned to one of the 40 squadrons. Those that survive and plan to return for their sophomore year, they are the ones that get shuffled. Some are reassigned to their freshman squadron, but most get new assignments.

And of course the seniors graduate, so only the current year soph and jr classes remain in the same squad for next year. Let's take a random squadron, say squadron 19.

Senior class of 2014: Has been in SQD 19 for three years now, about to graduate.
Junior class of 2015, now in 2nd year in SQD 19, will stay in 19
Soph class of 2016, 1st year in SQD 19, last year were in any of the 39 other squadrons, will stay in 19
Fish class of 2017, came into BCT last summer and went through it together in their BCT squad. While this is also their first year in SQD 19, next year they will be scattered.


So in a lot of ways, it's hard for a squadron to maintain a "personality". After all > 50% of their members are new to the Squadron each year.

And of course, since they are about 20% female, every squadron and every class within that squadron has about 20% female.

And as you indicate, the cadet squadron leadership changes each semester. You can be CO in the fall, but someone else will be CO in the spring. And if I remember correctly, there are also summer leadership positions.



[This message has been edited by CanyonAg77 (edited 4/16/2014 11:04p).]

That's different than when I was there (Mighty Mach 1). The shuffle was before 2nd class year back then (1997-1998).

And you're right about personality. The identity of outfits at A&M is worlds different than at the Zoo.

They also hang the guidons on the wall in the hallway. I dare someone to try that at A&M.

[This message has been edited by Ryan the Temp (edited 4/16/2014 11:07p).]

They have an officer and an NCO in every squadron during the day. One suspects that cuts down on hijinks like guidon stealing.

That, and the guidon is not seen as anything special, nor is guidon bearer an honor. Seen as more of a PITA.

If you ever get nostalgic for the Zoo, take a look at the "Lucy Show" clips where she visits USAFA.

Link to part one

The funniest part is about 9 minutes in, when she runs into a dorm in her nightgown, and accidentally pulls the fire alarm. All the cadets fall out for accountability, and they were obviously told by the TV show to wear the most ridiculous stuff they had.

Speaking of shenanigans, my last day there I put a trash can over the top of the flag pole. They had to cancel Reveille formation and brought a crane in to get it down. All they needed was a broom handle. After all, that's how I got it up there.

I'll stop derailing now.