To all,

I have a question with regards to a retiree wearing another branch of services dress uniform. Here is the story:

I am the SMSI for a SMC Army ROTC department. The daily uniform for the commandant, ass. commandants and NCO mentors for the Corps is either the ACU or the old Army Green Uniform, depending on the day. As everyone knows, the old Army Green uniform is out of its wear date, so I don't care if they wear it or not, as that is "their" uniform.

One of the Ass. Commandants is a retired Air Force E-7 special bands person, wears the rank of LTC for the university, and is the band director. When he is wearing the ACU (with the schools name tape) or the Green Uniform I dont give a **** what he does, but he has now taken to wearing the Army Service Uniform with LTC rank on it. The ASU has NOT been adopted by the school as its uniform for Corps employees, it is the Army Green Uniform.

I have scoured the Army regulation and the Air Force regulation on retirees and standards for uniform wear, with no definitive answer except how retired Army personnel must wear Army uniforms, and the same for the Air Force. The way I see it, perhaps wrongly, he is not authorized to wear the ASU, either as a retiree, or a representative of the Corp.

The reason for my ire is he is obese, and when he wears the ASU under the auspices of the Corp, he looks like a fatass LTC. When in the Army Green Uniform, everyone knows he is a Corp rep because it is not worn anymore, so I really don't care, but I feel he is impersonating an Army officer when he is wearing the ASU with LTC rank.

Does anyone know of any regulation or policy about service uniforms being worn by non-military organizations? I can't seem to find one. I have put a shot across the bow with regards to him wearing it, and the initial response was basically "so what", and now I need some no kidding regulatory guidance, if it exists. Thanks in advance.

My knowledge and research of USAF regs indicate the only uniform privileges retirees get is for ceremonial or other appropriate activities, and it applies to the current Air Force uniform only. That is to say I could have retired before McPeak changed the AF uniform design, but if I want to wear it for something today, I would have to comply with AFI 36-2903 as it exists TODAY.

My best guess is that unless he is specifically authorized wear of a different service's uniform, it is unauthorized wear of a uniform.

[This message has been edited by Ryan the Temp (edited 5/10/2014 7:49p).]

Ryan, thanks for the reply, and I read the exact same passage in the Air Force regulation. I am still doing more research on the subject before I approach the university leadership. Ducks in a row and all that.

why is an Air Force retiree wearing an Army uniform in the first place?

Let's be honest here- an obese soldier isn't a rare sight. The uniform and leaf on his shoulder (as I understand it) comes from his status in a reserve component of the army.

GOML, reread my first post. He is a retired E-7 in the Air Force, not the Army. He is not on any reserve status, and the university wears the old Army Green uniform as their uniform. A retired LTC from the Army has the option of the uniform in use as of his retirement, or a newer version if it exists. Using the regulations of the two services in question, he does not have any option except the university's uniform or the Air Force uniform.

You've probably already seen this, but here is the reg:

www.apd.army.mil/pdffiles/r670_1.pdf

quote:

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1–5. Statutory Authority
a. Portions of this regulation are punitive. Violation of the specific prohibitions and requirements of specific portions by Soldiers may result in adverse administrative action and/or charges under the provisions of the UCMJ.
b. Only uniforms, accessories, and insignia prescribed in this regulation, or in the common table of allowance (CTA), or as approved by Headquarters, Department of the Army (HQDA), will be worn by personnel in the U.S. Army. Unless specified in this regulation, the commander issuing the clothing and individual equipment will establish wear policies for organizational clothing and individual equipment. No item governed by this regulation will be altered in any way that changes the basic design, or the intended concept of fit, as described in Technical Manual (TM) 10–227 and Army Regulation (AR) 700–84, including plating, smoothing, or removing detailed features of metal items, or otherwise altering the color or appearance.
c. AR 70–1 prescribes Department of the Army (DA) policies, responsibilities, and administrative procedures by which all clothing and individual equipment used by Army personnel are initiated, designed, developed, tested, approved for acquisition, fielded, and modified.
d. AR 385–10 prescribes DA policies, responsibilities, and administrative procedures and funding for protective clothing and equipment.
e. In accordance with Section 771, Chapter 45, Title 10, United States Code, no person except a member of the U.S. Army may wear the uniform, a distinctive part of the uniform, or any part of which is similar to a distinctive part of the U.S. Army uniform, unless otherwise authorized by law. Soldiers are not authorized to wear distinctive uniforms or uniform items of the U.S. Army or of other U.S. Services with or on civilian clothes, except as authorized by this regulation.

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You could request specific guidance from the Deputy Chief of Staff's office at the Pentagon. You could also reach out the Assistant Secretary of the Air Force, HQ USAF SAF/MR (manpower & readiness) for an opinion.

Alternatively, you could file a FOIA request with the Depts. of the Army and Air Force for any non-privacy act information that would indicate the individual in question has authority to wear US Army uniforms.

[This message has been edited by Ryan the Temp (edited 5/11/2014 2:30p).]

Ryan, yes I have seen that, and I think that is what I will pin my argument on. We will see. Thanks for your input.

Tell that, expletive deleted, that this retired USAF E-7 said to wear the correct uniform and rank or get another job

If the subject of your attention is in the Texas State Guard, as Dr Rhea and LTC Brewer and several others on the TAMU Commandant's staff have been over the years, the ASU, the ACU, and the old Army Green are some of their authorized uniforms.

Check the policies of the State Defense Forces for your area.

Typically, honorable service at an E-7 or higher level could qualify someone for a commission in the SDF. You'll have to check your local listings for current policy.

[This message has been edited by F Troop91 (edited 5/11/2014 9:40p).]

The last Air Force Lt Col to direct Bands at A&M was Lt Col Toler, who retired more than 10 years ago.

Dr. Timothy Rhea and LTC Jay Brewer both lead the Aggie Bands now. Both are LTC's in the TSG. I do not know what, if any, prior service they had. Rhea was commissioned as a 2LT when he was hired here and worked his way up. I thought Brewer was working here when I was a cadet.

That's not the issue.

The issue is someone wearing an incorrect uniform for their branch of service.

It's not A&M.

I have your answer, clarythedrill. If you do a google image search for the following:

The name of the university (without the word "university") then the first name and last name without rank.

i.e. School First Last

The first image result will be the guy to which you are referring. It appears he is wearing a state guard uniform because the insignia on the collar are not "US" insignia, but rather insignia of the state in which the SMC is located. His situation appears to be similar to the one referenced above with Dr. Rhea and LTC Brewer, except that this individual wears his active duty accoutrements.

[This message has been edited by Ryan the Temp (edited 5/12/2014 12:00a).]

Wear out date for the Army green service uniform is FY16.

AGofNV, the actual wear out date is 4th quarter FY14, so just around the corner. I haven't seen an active duty Soldier in the Green uniform in over three years, although I suppose they are out there somewhere.

Is this him?

quote:

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One of the Ass. Commandants

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When I was active duty, I was voluntold that I was to work in PAC due to my near mystical ability to type. One of my duties was prepping OER's.

Our unit had been assigned an assistant adjutant even though no such position existed. Turns out this officer had been boarded for non performance and had been selected for dismissal. He appealed the boarding and was sent to our unit during his appeal. Well this guy was as worthless as his previous CO had already reported.

So in his final OER I put his position as Ass. Adjutant.

The Adjutant made me change it to Asst. Adjutant.

^ I lol'd

Ryan, that looks almost exactly like him, although my guy is larger. Didn't you attend this university at one point?

Yes, I did. Proud graduate of two SMCs.

clary are you an ROTC instructor or in the commandant's office? There's a hard-charging SFC I work with that was offered an ROTC job up there that's looking for some atmospherics

Tango Mike, I am in the Army ROTC department. What are his questions?

can you hit me up with some contact info at tangomikeTA@hotmail.com

I'd like to put you in direct contact with this guy

Tango Mike, have him hit me at lclary at norwich.edu

shukran

Just curious here:

Wouldn't an ROTC gig at a place like Norwich be a dream job?

Norwich specifically due to a gorgeous location, great school, high quality of life, prestige etc?

I really enjoyed my time at Norwich.






[This message has been edited by Ryan the Temp (edited 5/15/2014 2:11p).]

Say Chowdah, the area is awesome for spring, summer and fall, but winters suck enormous donkey dong. Things are a good deal more expensive up here also. Housing that is worth a crap is hard to find. I had to buy just to have a decent place to stay. People are poor up here, and revel in it. Think lower Alabama type poor, if not worse, but these morons try to "out poor" each other. Taxes are simply outrageous. A LARGE portion on the population is on public assistance, plus get free oil, gas, wood, food etc.....you name it. But they all seem to have plenty of money to ski, kayak and hunt and fish. Drugs and drug use is rampant also. All the idealistic photos you see on post cards about Vermont is very misleading. I like my job and the Soldiers I work with, but I cant wait to get back to Hood in October. Now if I can just sell my house.

quote:

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but winters suck enormous donkey dong

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Do you ski or hunt? Snowmobile?

You are leaving in October so if you hadn't already, it is probably too late.

Yeah, I heard the drug use there is out of control.

What about career wise? Is that considered a prestigious career move?

Chowdah, I don't care for skiing. I tried it once when stationed at Ft Carson and didn't find it all that interesting. I do like to hike and trail run, and there is plenty of that up here with the Long Trail and the Appalachian trail. Its the extreme cold and constant snow that gets old. This winter there were weeks that the high was at or below zero, and the lows were -20 or lower. When going to class, you don't walk on the sidewalks or roads, you hop from building to building to your classroom because of the cold. Hell, it snowed the last week of April when we were out in the field, and there were still piles of snow last weekend at graduation/commissioning. I leave for work around 0415 in the morning, and the plows haven't made their way out to clear the roads. So, I am driving 5 miles an hour through 10 inches of snow for 17 miles trying to get to work. And don't get me going about how the salt they put on the roads screws your vehicle up.

As for the job, it doesn't carry any more weight than being at any of the other Senior Military Colleges. They love to tout being the Oldest Private Military College and a Senior Military College, but they don't do a darn thing to live up to that billing. That's all I will say about the university while I am stationed up here.

Again, I like my job and the people I work with, but this state/area just does not fit me very well.

[This message has been edited by clarythedrill (edited 5/17/2014 8:47p).]

The hybrid online/residence masters programs offered by Norwich are actually some of the best in the country and are highly preferred by the feds and military.

Ryan, you are right, the Masters of Military History program is rated very high, and the Cyber Security department was rated one of the best by the Department of Defense. I just don't feel the school is living up to its potential on the Corps side of things. Just my opinion.