So, in order to get promoted, I'm told I need to earn my CCAF (Community College of the Air Force) degree. Having a BS - Computer Science degree isn't good enough, I need to earn the equivalent of an associates degree. Ok, fine, I submit my transcript from TAMU. All's good except they won't count the humanities courses I took to earn my BS. Wing education office says they will try to help but aren't very encouraging as far as trying to get CCAF to give me credit. So as it stands, I'm one class short of checking off this moronic requirement.

It makes sense that the Air Force wants to encourage their members to become more educated, but when a member already has a degree (or multiple degrees) it seems ridiculous to make them jump through these hoops to "earn" an inferior degree to the one(s) they already have.

Good lord the Air Force is stupid. I make fun of the Navy for the stupid career matrix, but your example is absolutely silly.

Something screwy about OP
The Education Officer at your Base is either an idiot - or a 'sip - or both!!

Bonfire: I work with the AF CE Squadron at my location. One rotation, we had a SMSgt (E8) that was the acting squadron Chief. He was recommended for an MSM (deserved). The Group Command Chief held up the award (for a while) because he had not completed an Associates Degree through CCAF. The man held a BS in Civil Engineering. It took a major admin fight to overcome this hold and he eventually received his award and retired.

I thought it was one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. I can see the requirement for enlisted without any kind of college. But to require a senior NCO with a BS degree to "check the box" seems nuts. It is apparently well known to everyone now though--you must check the CCAF box to promote or receive awards.

[This message has been edited by DogCo84 (edited 7/16/2014 2:34a).]

Hoping beyond hope that there is some Ag out there in a position to do something about this idiotic rule.

aTmBonfire, send me a PM. After we discuss specifics I'll see what can be done.

Enlisting with a college degree, as you have done, is increasingly common. Hopefully the Air Force will accept your degree in place of CCAF . . . so you don't have to waste your time.

It seems to an old fart like myself that we see more and more instances every day where "common sense has left the building".

Clearly it's a really dumb rule but I will say that because the CCAF is so incredibly low brow that you should be able to take care of that humanities credit with a simple CLEP test. I ran up against this same wall a few years ago (BA in History) but lacking 1 class for my CCAF and I was able to spend 2 hours taking a CLEP test to earn my all valuable CCAF.

I have probably upwards of 100 random Air Force/PME "college" credits at this point but I'm not sure that any of them would be worth anything to a reputable school of higher learning.

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I have probably upwards of 100 random Air Force/PME "college" credits at this point but I'm not sure that any of them would be worth anything to a reputable school of higher learning.

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I totally understand what you are saying, but I would add that what you learned in those "random" courses is of great value in the civilian work force.

I retired in 1991 and when I entered the private sector I was absolutely dumbfounded by the lack of leadership skills, organizational skills, problem solving skills, and just overall common sense I encountered in the civilian populace.


[This message has been edited by NormanAg (edited 7/17/2014 8:37p).]

A lot of those hours are extremely valuable to me. Especially the language and intel training I've received, but I'm not sure any of them are actually transferable.

Yeah, if I can't convince CCAF that the humanities courses I took at A&M should count then CLEP will be the next step.

It's really more about the time, money and aggravation of having to jump through hoops that shouldn't be there in the first place.

Your education office has zero say in whether the course counts or not. I work in an education office, so trust me. You need to contact CCAF at Maxwell to have them re-evaluate the course. They may actually do that for you. Shoot me a PM and I will try to get you a direct number to CCAF. Of course it isn't for public use, but no worries. I would love to help you out. I am assuming you are Enlisted since it is a promotion thing. I was in the same boat. You might think about doing a CLEP or DANTES exam. I did Ethics in America and passed with zero studying. You can go onto petersons website and do practice exams so that might help. Best of luck.

BTW, having a CCAF degree is important to get so that your Airmen understand the importance of it. It is usually the stepping stone and motivator to get them headed towards a Bachelors degree. It helped me and I finished my MBA and a HR Certification. I am retiring 1 Aug after 21.5 years and it helped me big time on jobs! I understand your frustration because you already have the Bachelors, but the Bachelors is not a requirement for promotion and probably never will be for Enlisted. The CCAF is for now. There is talk of tuition assistance being cut before too long, so take advantage of everything you can get.

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BTW, having a CCAF degree is important to get so that your Airmen understand the importance of it. It is usually the stepping stone and motivator to get them headed towards a Bachelors degree

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If it's promoting education by setting the example then I agree but if it's chasing a certificate from CCAF without recognizing that the certificate and the education are not synonymous then I disagree.

As one viewing this from outside the USAF it appears that the CCAF degree is serving no more important purpose in this case than a box to be checked on a checklist for compliance. Any suggestion that promoting education by example is better served by a CCAF degree than by the bachelor's degree the OP already possesses is an argument that confuses a certificate with an education.

When it became "necessary" for field grade officers to possess a Masters degree for certain joint duty and promotions the services promptly got their command & staff colleges accredited to award an M.A. in military studies and check the box. I believe that a nine months masters program cheapens the value graduate education in the eyes of prospective civilian employers and does not accomplish the purpose that was originally envisioned (i.e. the same population of officers was already attending those schools before they awarded a degree upon graduation).

I agree with Ulysses's take on this 100%. I think that the services are way behind the times in terms of recognizing that their ranks are being infiltrated more and more with enlisted service members who already possess B.A.'s and B.S.'s. And furthermore they aren't realizing the relative insignificance of an associates in a world where a bachelor's is now a pre req for almost everything.

Instead of adjusting to the reality of today where there are literally hundreds of ways to progress towards a reputable bachelor's degree, the AF is standing fast behind the CCAF and other degree mill type ways to receive education.

This is not to say that the AF training hasn't been very helpful to my career, but rather to make the argument that accrediting AF training really doesn't do anything for most airmen when it comes to getting a good bachelor's degree.

My most obvious example of this disconnect comes from my recent PME experience. I was awarded 10 hours of "credit" for this course in which we repeatedly were told that we could not leave early even when all work was done because "our accreditation depends on hours spent in the classroom." In total we probably spent 40 hours of classroom instruction time in what was described as "independent research" on the schedule but was really listen to music and play on your phone time. It kind of makes you wonder what kind of show they put on for the people in charge of awarding the accreditation if there are now close to 40 hours of dead time at ALS and how they rationalized this independent study time.

I guess I should add that the saddest part in all of this is that the old guard of sorts (E-7's-E-9's) take such pride in their CCAF's and other assorted random educational certificates that I don't think there is a real push from the SNCO corps in the AF to push their Airmen towards more reputable programs. We'll probably have to wait another 10-20 years to see any real push for change to what the AF is currently doing.

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It is usually the stepping stone and motivator to get them headed towards a Bachelors degree.

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Exactly. I served in the AF from 1970-1991, a time when airman with a Bachelor's degree were somewhat rare. A CCAF degree WAS a "stepping stone and motivator" back then.

I have numerous retired enlisted friends who started with a CCAF degree (easy to do in the weather field) and progressed to Bachelors and even Masters degrees before they retired.

Most of them got great jobs right after retiring.

But I DO recognize times have changed and agree with numerous posters on this thread.

If an AF enlisted person has a BS, or maybe even an MS degree, a CCAF diploma is TOTALLY superfluous.

CCAF is no longer a "stepping stone and motivator" in that case. The "stepping stone" has long since been "stepped" on and the "motivation" is no longer a player.

I am appalled that it appears that this fact is not obvious to the current AF folks who administer the CCAF program.

AggieEP,

You need to look into the ABC programs that are offered for having that CCAF degree. There are literally thousands of degrees from great universities that accept the CCAF credit. This is how I got my Bachelor degree and they accepted every credit.

Keep in mind that there are still tons of people that get out of the service with zero degree and that is why the AF pushes for CCAF degrees. Other branches are envious of the prorams. Is it perfect? Absolutely not, but the premise is still to get education out to everyone. Be thankful that a CCAF is required for promotion, because that is one of the major things keeping tuition assistance around. It's hard to make something mandatory and then not provide a way to get it funded.

Also, it is rare for someone to not have all the credits for a CCAF degree if they have a Bachelors degree also this CCAF degree is another degree in their current career field. It isn't just some associates degree. It is very helpful if you ever plan to work as a civilian on a base, especially in the same type of job.

Why would anyone not want another degree on their resume? I would gladly take one class for another degree. I understand the op frustration for sure, but in the grand scheme it will be well worth it. There are many reasons why that course may jot have translated, but they are too numerous to list. OP numbers to CCAF are in your inbox. Let me know if I can help anymore.

Aggiehunter34-

Maybe it depends on career field because the credits awarded to me through tech school don't count towards any degree mostly because there really isn't such thing as a B.A in cryptology.

If you mean the extra credits needed to get the CCAF such as math/humanities/science credits then I do agree that those credits would transfer in most cases because CLEP/DANTES tests usually do transfer. As far as I know though none of these AF tech schools are awarding math/humanities/science credits so my point still stands that instead of pumping up the CCAF they should be encouraging people to work on whatever degree interests them the most.

At this point the only reasons for some of us to get our CCAF's is to make sure we check a box for promotion and so that if we get out someone doesn't wonder why we didn't get it.

EP,

Was meaning that when you complete tech school, and if you have a Bachelor degree then most people will have enough credits for a CCAF degree. The reason that the enlisted side doesn't push for a bachelors is because it isn't required. That is for the officer side. As you know we don't get any extra pay for our bachelor or masters. I wish that would change but it probably never will. I used to push this with CMSAF Roy who was a friend of mine, but he never could see it happening either.

Keep pushing forward though and keep doing good things for our Airmen! You have that degree so encourage those around you, whether that is a CCAF it whatever goal they have. Thanks for all you do. I know that job of yours isn't the easiest. You have to be one bright guy!