Need some Marine Corps and A&M Corps advice

7,344 Views | 27 Replies | Last: 10 yr ago by Helms96
BigCountryAg
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AG
I apologize in advance for the length of this post but I am in need of some serious advice for my son.

I have a 17 y.o. son who will be graduating HS next year. He wants be in the Corps at A&M and then be
a Marine after he graduates. At this point, he is not sure about making a career of it, but has held that open as a possibility.

First off let me clarify that I have no military or A&M Corps of Cadets experience or background so this is all new to me. Forgive me in advance if I stumble using incorrect military jargon, nomenclature or
terminology.

He and I have met separately and together with his local Marine recruiter who as of last week was putting a lot of pressure on him to sign on enlisted right away. In fact, when we met up earlier this week
he had the papers ready for us to sign. I had to back the good Sgt. off a bit as we are both new to this and still learning. He was just doing his job which I certainly understand.

No doubt this is ultimately my son's decision but feel it is my role as his father to make sure he fully understands all of the options available to him so he can make a wise decision with no regrets.

The biggest decision in all of this of course, is whether to go enlisted or seek the officer commissioning route and how that all coincides with his time in the Corps @ A&M. This has been by far the most confusing aspect to us both.

As his father, I'd like to see him go the commissioning route b/c I feel it may ultimately offer him the broadest range of opportunities down the road. That is purely an assumption on my part and in no way
based on personal experience or knowledge.

My son made it clear to me that he wants to have the infantry/combat experience and possibly pursue special operations which I could see him excelling at. When I asked him which MOS he seemed most interested in...without flinching he said "infantry". I then asked him "as a shot-caller or as a trigger-puller?" to which he quickly responded by choosing the latter.

He's a smart, tough young man and in great physical condition. He earned (unanimous) 1st Team All-District honors in football as a Soph and again as a Junior as a smallish but fast LB. He's also made the
All-District Academic Team both years he's been on varsity.

He's a natural born leader...not in a rah-rah type of way but rather by quiet example. Kids flock to be around him and he is very well liked by coaches, school staff and admin, parents and students alike.
In other words, I think the boy is cutout to be a Marine.

So I guess my primary questions to start would be:

  • 1. What are the career advantages/disadvantages/limitations to going enlisted vs. commissioning?
  • 2. What are the payscale differences between commissioned vs. non-commissioned officers?
  • 3. What are the primary differences in combat responsibilities of each?
  • 4. If he chose the commissioning route, does that hurt his chances of making a spec ops team if he wants
  • to go that route?
  • 5. If he decides he wants to go enlisted when should he sign on? Now? Before/during/after A&M?
  • 6. How do these decisions fit in with the Corps at A&M?
  • 7. What would his likely timeline be for each path starting now until he starts active duty after graduating
    from A&M?
  • 8. What deadlines, if any do we need to be aware of?
  • 9. He's just outside the top 10% of his class but is most-likely top 15%. What scholarship opportunities
    might be available to him and what does that process/timeline look like?
  • 10. What would his starting rank be coming out of college going each route?

  • Many thanks to anyone who takes the time to read this and respond.

    Donnie '93
    bufrilla
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    AG
    Sent you a private message.
    Whoop04
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    Same here. Lots of great questions. Not sure I can really answer them in this format though.
    jfadioustoad
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    His quality of life will be better in literally every way if he goes the officer route. A lot of recruiters will tell you it is easier to get an officer slot if you are enlisted first. This is kinda true but not really. Have him start talking to the College Station officer recruiter (it's literally walking distance from campus) his freshman year.
    3rdGenAg05
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    I don't think I can PM, but if you post your email, I'd be happy to drop you a line. I was in the Corps of Cadets and was the Marine Officer Selection Officer (OSO) for TAMU not that long ago.
    I've talked through this with a lot of people in your shoes. If you live in/around Houston, perhaps we could meet for lunch one day.
    For starters, go to marine officer.com and it will direct you to some pretty useful information.
    Aggies Revenge
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    I am one of those guys who enlisted in the Marines after my "not so stellar, Dixie Chicken oriented" career at A&M. As such I can tell you without hesitation...

    Get the college first, get the commission, and the go the Officer route.

    IF your son feels that he cannot wait and wants to do it now, he should consider going into the reserves, getting boot camp and SOI/MCT out of the way and then work on his degree.

    There are a couple of Marine officers who have worked the recruiting details that can give you much better answers, I just wanted to give you my perspective.
    REJ_III
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    BigCountryAg
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    quote:

    REJ_III & 3rdGenAg05,

    Sorry, not sure how to send a PM with this new format.
    I clicked on your screen name links and did not find a way to send you a
    PM. For some reason, others have a link to do that but not y'alls.
    Probably something I'm doing wrong.

    Here's my email: donnie@veritasbuildingconsultants.com

    Thank you guys so much for taking the time to post your well thought out and informative responses.

    Donnie '93
    GAC06
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    quote:
    I apologize in advance for the length of this post but I am in need of some serious advice for my son.

    I have a 17 y.o. son who will be graduating HS next year. He wants be in the Corps at A&M and then be
    a Marine after he graduates. At this point, he is not sure about making a career of it, but has held that open as a possibility.

    First off let me clarify that I have no military or A&M Corps of Cadets experience or background so this is all new to me. Forgive me in advance if I stumble using incorrect military jargon, nomenclature or
    terminology.

    He and I have met separately and together with his local Marine recruiter who as of last week was putting a lot of pressure on him to sign on enlisted right away. In fact, when we met up earlier this week
    he had the papers ready for us to sign. I had to back the good Sgt. off a bit as we are both new to this and still learning. He was just doing his job which I certainly understand.

    No doubt this is ultimately my son's decision but feel it is my role as his father to make sure he fully understands all of the options available to him so he can make a wise decision with no regrets.

    The biggest decision in all of this of course, is whether to go enlisted or seek the officer commissioning route and how that all coincides with his time in the Corps @ A&M. This has been by far the most confusing aspect to us both.

    As his father, I'd like to see him go the commissioning route b/c I feel it may ultimately offer him the broadest range of opportunities down the road. That is purely an assumption on my part and in no way
    based on personal experience or knowledge.

    My son made it clear to me that he wants to have the infantry/combat experience and possibly pursue special operations which I could see him excelling at. When I asked him which MOS he seemed most interested in...without flinching he said "infantry". I then asked him "as a shot-caller or as a trigger-puller?" to which he quickly responded by choosing the latter.

    He's a smart, tough young man and in great physical condition. He earned (unanimous) 1st Team All-District honors in football as a Soph and again as a Junior as a smallish but fast LB. He's also made the
    All-District Academic Team both years he's been on varsity.

    He's a natural born leader...not in a rah-rah type of way but rather by quiet example. Kids flock to be around him and he is very well liked by coaches, school staff and admin, parents and students alike.
    In other words, I think the boy is cutout to be a Marine.

    So I guess my primary questions to start would be:

    1. What are the career advantages/disadvantages/limitations to going enlisted vs. commissioning?
    2. What are the payscale differences between commissioned vs. non-commissioned officers?
    3. What are the primary differences in combat responsibilities of each?
    4. If he chose the commissioning route, does that hurt his chances of making a spec ops team if he wants
    to go that route?
    5. If he decides he wants to go enlisted when should he sign on? Now? Before/during/after A&M?
    6. How do these decisions fit in with the Corps at A&M?
    7. What would his likely timeline be for each path starting now until he starts active duty after graduating
    from A&M?
    8. What deadlines, if any do we need to be aware of?
    9. He's just outside the top 10% of his class but is most-likely top 15%. What scholarship opportunities
    might be available to him and what does that process/timeline look like?
    10. What would his starting rank be coming out of college going each route?



    1 and 2: the career advantages and pay benefit the officer route. The pay isn't even close. Add other factors like having instant responsibility vs the exact opposite and I would highly recommend pursuing a commission.

    3. An 0311 closes with and destroys the enemy. His weapon is his rifle. An 0302 trains and leads them. His weapon is his Marines. He won't be a "trigger puller" in the sense that he probably imagines.

    4. Unless things have changed (and they might have) officers typically only go to MARSOC after distinguishing themselves in their MOS.

    5. If he wants to enlist, I would recommend doing it now. The GI Bill can pay for college later.

    6. If he's in the Corps at A&M he can pursue an ROTC scholarship. He doesn't have to be in the Corps at A&M to become a Marine officer though. I wasn't.

    7. The timeline would be enlist and go to boot camp pretty quickly or go to A&M, go to class, go ROTC or PLC (commissioning option outside of corps of cadets), attend OCS in the summer near the end of his time at A&M, the graduate and get commissioned.

    I'll defer to people with better corps of cadets knowledge on scholarship info.

    If he graduates A&M and completes OCS he will be a 2ndLt. If he goes to boot camp he will be a private or PFC.

    Also note that even though he may want infantry now, he may not later. At the Basic School (training for officers after OCS) about half of my platoon raised their hands on the first day to say they wanted infantry. Six months later, about a third of them still asked for it.
    3rdGenAg05
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    AG
    Email sent Donnie.

    REJ, I hope you're well. I'll track you down to catch up soon. I'd love to hear how you're doing.
    -your friendly OSO
    VictorCharlie
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    I'm not USMC but rather Army but could he not enlist with the Marine Reserves and still do ROTC through A&M? I had friends do that through Army National Guard, all though not with A&M. Won't quite get him the full enlisted experience but would have its own benefits and give him a little more TOS towards pay when he did commission.
    Warrior 66
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    You're obviously gotten a lot of great responses here concerning this big decision for your son, but I would also offer that if your son would like to talk to the current Professor of Naval Science here at A&M - a USMC Colonel - please get in contact with me and I can make that happen. We'd even be happy to host him here for an "informational session" on all the options he has available to him, including a USMC Contract, Scholarship, or the USMC PLC Program (the individual who responded who has been an OSO can tell you about PLC also).

    I run into this question a LOT when I'm out speaking at high schools recruiting for the Corps, and the right answer varies for individual students based on their personal circumstances. I would be happy to set up a meeting with your son and the PNS here to hep discuss options for him, given his circumstances. He sounds like a great young man, and I'm sure he'd do well in the Corps of Cadets and as a USMC officer, but he needs to know ALL of his options before he makes a big decision like this. I'm happy to help make that happen for him.

    My contact info is: jramirez@corps.tamu.edu. Please contact me and I'll be happy to set this up for your son. Best of luck to him. I'm sure he's going to do well no matter what his decision is.

    Gig 'em! and Semper Fi!



    3rdGenAg05
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    Thanks Commandant! I was going to refer him to PNS office for his summer visit if he calls. Is it still Col T? I figured he might be gone by now.
    Warrior 66
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    COL Timoney is still the PNS until mid-July. I've already met the new PNS who's in-bound in July - a USMC Infantry COL, and he's going to be a great replacement for COL Timoney, who has been a superb PNS.

    COL Timoney would be happy to talk to your son about his options, if he'd like. You have my contact info. Just let me know and I'll set it up.

    Best of luck to you and your son!
    BigCountryAg
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    Commandant79 & 3rdGenAg05,

    Your generosity is greatly appreciated. I've responded to both of your emails.

    This is exactly what I was hoping for by posting on here.

    I called up to the Naval ROTC office on Fri hoping to speak to the Scholarship officer but was unable to. I did speak with a Lt. Col Hamel (I think that was her name and sorry if the rank is incorrect) and she was very helpful.

    She did tell me about the changing of the coming officer changes and hoped I could get in there soon.

    I'll be in touch in the next couple of weeks to set up a visit.

    Thanks again for all of your responses.
    Eliminatus
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    I can speak as a former "trigger puller". I enlisted right out of high school. I was a recruiter's wet dream. I walked in and demanded infantry. Coincidentally, my recruiter was infantry and looking back now I can see how he was trying to steer me towards a more skills based MOS. I scored a 96 on my ASVAB and was literally qualified for any enlisted job. Nope. I wanted to be that guy slaying the dragon.

    Well I got my wish in spades. I enlisted mid '05 and entered the frenetic world of a Marine Corps completely oriented on fighting a war. And for those who have done both war time and peace time Corps it is a HUGE difference. Wartime was exhausting. Train, deploy, fight, comeback, train again. No time for anything else. The pace was brutal and a lot suffered because of it. Families were torn apart all around by the pace. My platoon entered Iraq with 20 married Marines. We left Iraq with 4. Only one of those made it through the next tour. 4 years blew by so fast I am still shaken up by it. I "pulled triggers' in both Iraq and Afghanistan and the experiences I gained from enlisting, money can never pay for.

    Now that we are in peacetime the lifestyle of a lower enlisted infantry Marine is vastly different. I can 100 percent say that being an enlisted infantry Marine was nothing like I had imagined....and I would do it all over again. But make sure your son understands the moral consequences of being infantry. The one thing I have always loved was how the Marine Corps of my generation never tried to sugarcoat it. An infantry Marine exists solely to fight and either intimidate or kill those America does not like. Don't believe otherwise. Sure they may get random side missions like humanitarian aid and whatnot but at the end of the day, Marine infantry are trained to kill and to kill without hesitation. I don't say this to scare your son but hopefully to help him understand the implications of what exactly he is asking for. An enlisted infantryman is a weapon in the eyes of the government.

    From the officer's side the mindset is different. An officer's weapon is not his personal issue. It's his squad leaders and through them the individual 03XX. Officers are trained to lead and must be fast thinking, mentally tough, tactically flexible, and be able to send his Marines to fight, and die if need be, with a straight face. Not many people can be an enlisted infantry Marine, even fewer can be an infantry officer. The other major difference is the amount of responsibility is completely different. An officer is ALWAYS held accountable. For both good AND bad.

    The lifestyles are also completely different. If your son is not married and enlists that means he will be living in the barracks. Ah the barracks....

    I absolutely despised the barracks life. I almost got married for the sole purpose of getting out of it. The barracks can be used used as a weapon to make life miserable. He must be prepared to deal with the good ole **** **** games. They are endless. I would take operating in a deadly warzone over garrison duty every day of the week. Officers automatically rate BAH at most bases or are rated for living in the BOQ which is comparable to apartment living. But BAH is where it's at. I lived with an infantry officer while contracting in san diego and I couldn't believe how cush an officer's life was compared to an enlisted.


    Now comes the career/ getting out part. I got out in '09. I was a wounded combat decorated infantry veteran....with zero job skills in the civilian world. This is a point I feel I must point out. Being an infantryman gave me the greatest pride imaginable, but unless your son gets incredibly lucky and attends some decent schools while he is in(which he won't) career wise it is a black hole in his life. Sure he'll get handshakes and many thanks for his service but only the fact he is a veteran will help him out. Which every veteran gets regardless of MOS. A lot of jobs offer veteran incentive points which is absolutely great but if your son is wanting something outside of civil service, or construction, etc he won't have any help and will be starting off at the bottom along with everyone else. I know enlisted mechanics that got hired the day they got out into starting $40-60K jobs. I struggled to find a job for 4 months and finally got hired at a gunstore making minimum wage. No one is looking for the ability to drink a 30-pack before a 25 mile hump and survive or the fact you can hit a target at 600 yards with iron sights. Officers are far more better prepared with a degree and crucial leadership experience. Many job fairs that are veteran friendly are looking only for officers.

    So to sum it up if your son really wants to fight and serve, go enlisted. It will be hard but very rewarding in it's own way.

    If your son wants to better his life standing by getting an education and command experience go officer. All things considered I would still have gone enlisted even with my knowledge now for the experiences I received but for actual perks officer is where it is at.
    Aggies Revenge
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    quote:
    Now comes the career/ getting out part. I got out in '09. I was a wounded combat decorated infantry veteran....with zero job skills in the civilian world. This is a point I feel I must point out. Being an infantryman gave me the greatest pride imaginable, but unless your son gets incredibly lucky and attends some decent schools while he is in(which he won't) career wise it is a black hole in his life. Sure he'll get handshakes and many thanks for his service but only the fact he is a veteran will help him out. Which every veteran gets regardless of MOS. A lot of jobs offer veteran incentive points which is absolutely great but if your son is wanting something outside of civil service, or construction, etc he won't have any help and will be starting off at the bottom along with everyone else. I know enlisted mechanics that got hired the day they got out into starting $40-60K jobs. I struggled to find a job for 4 months and finally got hired at a gunstore making minimum wage. No one is looking for the ability to drink a 30-pack before a 25 mile hump and survive or the fact you can hit a target at 600 yards with iron sights. Officers are far more better prepared with a degree and crucial leadership experience. Many job fairs that are veteran friendly are looking only for officers.
    THIS! Coming out of the Corps as an 0311, I felt like I was qualified to do two jobs, shoot and scrub crappers. I ended up in law enforcement for a good stretch (starting out in dispatch thanks to getting stuck with the radio in my platoon).
    BigCountryAg
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    Eliminatus...well put sir.

    Thanks for taking the time to write that up.
    FightnFarmerUSMC
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    I was a USMC recruiter from 2010 - 2012. PM me and I'll be happy to answer any questions you have about the recruiting side of it.

    Lots of good advice on here, I'll add that the GI Bill is a ridiculously great deal for the enlisted side. It's 4 years of free college with $1200 a month in his pocket. No student loans to worry about. There's nothing wrong with going to college as a 22 year old with a multitude of real world experience.
    Ulysses90
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    There are a lot of really good responses on this thread. I would add that there is no need to make a decision on enlisting in the delayed entry program during the summer before his senior year if he's still not certain of whether he wants to pursue college and a commissioning program first.

    Your son just became an official prospect that the recruiter could "work" on the day he completed his junior year. I was on recruiting duty as an RS OpsO from 1994-97 and I understand that eagerness of recruiters to fill their pool with the best quality enlistees in the new senior class as soon as they become eligible to enlist. On the other hand, there is plenty of time for your son to deliberate the decision. Despite any suggestions to the contrary, there will be plenty of 03xx Infantry occupational field guarantees to go around if that's what he wants.
    FightnFarmerUSMC
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    As a former canvassing recruiter, Sir, I'd like to send a big green weenie right over to you and all your Ops buddies. I had my sh-t pushed in for not having all my priority one first seniors locked out by June mission day every year.
    momlaw
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    quote:
    It's 4 years of free college with $1200 a month in his pocket. No student loans to worry about.
    I interact with many Aggie students who are veterans and have learned the GI Bill helps, but is definitely not a financial easy street. That seemingly large monthly stipend covers housing, utilities, insurance, vehicle, food, all incidentals, and unplanned problems. There is not a lot left in the pocket by the end of the month. Periods of time not in classroom do not receive the allowance so it has to come from somewhere - either saving ahead of time from the monthly stipend, student loans - somewhere.

    A survey of TAMU veteran students reflected:
    • 68% GI Bill benefits exhausted prior to graduation
    • 65% two or more semesters beyond benefits for graduation
    • 50% have spouse or partner; 31% have additional dependents
    • 58% benefits, financial aid inadequate to cover family household expenses
    The all expenses paid education is a great marketing tool to 18 year olds, particularly those with meager if any means. No doubt getting in the higher education game with an assist from the GI Bill changes lives. It is the exception rather than the rule that debt is not incurred.

    It is unfair to characterize it otherwise.
    FightnFarmerUSMC
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    quote:
    quote:
    It's 4 years of free college with $1200 a month in his pocket. No student loans to worry about.
    I interact with many Aggie students who are veterans and have learned the GI Bill helps, but is definitely not a financial easy street. That seemingly large monthly stipend covers housing, utilities, insurance, vehicle, food, all incidentals, and unplanned problems. There is not a lot left in the pocket by the end of the month. Periods of time not in classroom do not receive the allowance so it has to come from somewhere - either saving ahead of time from the monthly stipend, student loans - somewhere.

    A survey of TAMU veteran students reflected:
    • 68% GI Bill benefits exhausted prior to graduation
    • 65% two or more semesters beyond benefits for graduation
    • 50% have spouse or partner; 31% have additional dependents
    • 58% benefits, financial aid inadequate to cover family household expenses
    The all expenses paid education is a great marketing tool to 18 year olds, particularly those with meager if any means. No doubt getting in the higher education game with an assist from the GI Bill changes lives. It is the exception rather than the rule that debt is not incurred.

    It is unfair to characterize it otherwise.



    I work in the VA Office at the University of South Alabama and see vets squander their benefits on a regular basis. I wrote a report this very afternoon which is going to require a veteran to repay over $9000 back to the VA. Many vets come into our office lost and going to college because they think they are supposed to do so. They have no plan and waste 3 semesters of benefits taking freshman level electives just to get the monthly stipend. I don't doubt the stats from the survey, but also think the stats are not reflective of what a properly motivated veteran can do.

    I'm a married 31 year old, father of two. I have taken a full load of classes every semester since the Summer of '13, while working full-time. I know exactly what my degree path is and will follow it to a "T." I have not taken one class or elective that is not needed for my degree. I will graduate next May with
    a BS. I will have 2 months of benefits left. I also have a 4.0 GPA. I understand that my story is more of the exception and not the rule, but I think it is completely fair to characterize the GI Bill as something that can put one through college with great financial ease. If a veteran comes into college with a plan and can commit to utilize their benefits at the most efficient level possible, then there should be no issue with that veteran's financial needs. If the OP's son is the go-getter that he claims him to be, and I'm sure he is, I don't think my comment was unfair at all.
    momlaw
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    First, thank you for your service on many fronts, as a defender of our nation and liberties, as a mindful steward of taxpayers' investment in veterans, as a conscientious consumer of GI benefits, as a devoted husband and father. Your engagement is honorable. Your example is essential.

    I apologize for not realizing your remarks were solely for the OP's son. My concern was for a generalized audience, that is why I used the word characterized. While some of the students I know have very similar engagement to yours others are not as well disciplined, though are focused on success with differing pace or personal circumstances.

    I would also like to clarify that none of the veteran students have poor mouthed the GI Bill to me. Those I know have an incredible blend of humility and pride. It is my personal observations, that sometimes include financial struggles, from which I drew conclusions.


    edited to add spaces between paragraphs
    Jlaggie
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    AG

    2468
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    I can say this.

    The difference between enlisted/officer is the the difference between the prisoner/prison guard.

    TowGun93
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    I had a similar path to Eliminatus. Great write up! I was accepted, and had intended to attend Texas A&M, but changed my mind and enlisted in the USMC (Infantry, please) out of high school. Only change for me from his story is that I did the Persian Gulf War in 1990-1991. Spot on with the comments about the wartime Marine Corps and the garrison Marine Corps. No question I preferred the former to the latter.

    My enlisted experience is mine, and I, too, wouldn't trade it. But as previously noted, it wasn't experience that necessarily helped me (on paper) in obtaining interviews as I finished school and looking for a job. Junior military officers have far greater resources in existing recruiting pipelines for corporate jobs.

    I had a conversation I with my Regimental XO when I was about to EAS. LtCol Bud Meador ( a Mustang) called me into his office and asked "you're getting short, Cpl. Wright, what do you plan to do?" As I explained my cold feet, possible re-enlistment, and my promise to my parents that I'd go to college, he looked at me and said "I was once a young Marine like you. I can tell you that if you leave the Marine Corps to pursue your education, I'm pretty sure it will still be here if you decide to come back."

    I made the decision right then to EAS and come to Texas A&M. I will encourage my sons to do the same. Pursue education first. The USMC will be there if and when you want it.

    Just my $.02. Whatever choice your son makes will be the right one.

    Semper Fi.
    Montgomery Burns
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    quote:
    Pursue education first. The USMC will be there if and when you want it.
    The clearest reply anyone has given. Could not agree more.
    Helms96
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    Most of the answers have already been given, but I can say that being in the Corps of Cadets and being a Marine have both been very positive things in my life and I wouldn't trade either of the experiences for the world.

    I was a Pisshead in the Cadets when I enlisted (on 10 November if that isn't Gung Ho enough for you Jarheads!!) on a delayed entry program in the Reserves. I was also on the 92 day reservist program which allowed me to go to Boot Camp over the summer and return back to school in time for the fall semester. Then joined my unit and returned the following summer for SOI. From there I was still able to finish school in the Cadets and still had the option to pursue a Career as an Officer.

    I personally think this is the best option all the way around. If gave me a serious leg up at Boot Camp because I already had the military bearing and knew how to march and live the lifestyle required. It will also give a big leg up at OCS and TBS as well.

    Good Luck for your boy, both organizations will change his life.

    Gig 'Em and Semper Fi!
    Firearms and LTC Instructor
    12thGun.com
    Jarhead
    CO of P-2 Class of ‘96
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