Payne 18-ft from the Basket

2,373 Views | 22 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by Heineken-Ashi
Mikeyshooter
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8:38a, 3/14/25
AG
We almost force feed this at least 6-8 times per game. I just wish Buzz was consistent with his analytics. Unless you have a guy like Broome, throwing it into a big guy to dribble 12 times who is a bad FT shooter is a losing strategy.

(I realize this is probably #13 on the annoying things this team does but this has bothered me for awhile now)


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zooguy96
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8:49a, 3/14/25
AG
I mean, his analytics had Wade and Phelps take half of our shots (21%), while everyone else shot 51%.

Makes no damn sense to me.

We can be good offensively when we move the ball (Auburn) - its just that it happens so rarely.
I know a lot about a little, and a little about a lot.
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FTAG 2000
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10:01a, 3/14/25
AG
Buzz doesn't use analytics. Or if he does, he is locked on to the most useless ones
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jeremy
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10:04a, 3/14/25
AG
I would love to see a Henry/Andy high/low game with Payne. I think it could be effective and help when we're in droughts.
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AgEfan
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In reply to FTAG 2000 • 10:20a, 3/14/25
FTAG 2000 said:
Buzz doesn't use analytics. Or if he does, he is locked on to the most useless ones
I would venture Buzz is the most analytics driven coach we have on campus. Very big on analytics.
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zooguy96
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In reply to AgEfan • 10:22a, 3/14/25
AG
AgEfan said:
FTAG 2000 said:
Buzz doesn't use analytics. Or if he does, he is locked on to the most useless ones
I would venture Buzz is the most analytics driven coach we have on campus. Very big on analytics.
Wel, then he must not use the analytics with Wade and Zhu taking half of the shots..... 21%....
I know a lot about a little, and a little about a lot.
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MarcAg
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In reply to FTAG 2000 • 10:23a, 3/14/25
AG
FTAG 2000 said:
Buzz doesn't use analytics.
This comment right here says you probably need to sit out on the basketball talk if you think that. Heavy heavy analytics guy. If anything, it might be too much emphasis on analytics
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TjgtAg08
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In reply to zooguy96 • 10:34a, 3/14/25
AG
zooguy96 said:
AgEfan said:
FTAG 2000 said:
Buzz doesn't use analytics. Or if he does, he is locked on to the most useless ones
I would venture Buzz is the most analytics driven coach we have on campus. Very big on analytics.
Wel, then he must not use the analytics with Wade and Zhu taking half of the shots..... 21%....
When the base strategy is to get as many offensive rebounds as possible and therefore shoot more balls than the other team to offset a worse shooting percentage, having your smallest player on the court and your other lead guard shoot the majority of the shots is an EXCELLENT strategy.

Now, we can debate the idea of building a team around offensive rebounding and volume shooting, but thats the decision they made (for whatever reason), so if you are going to do that, you need as many good rebounders as possible NOT shooting the basketball.

Also, your secondary strategy is to get fouled as much as possible and get to the line more times than your opponent, so that also feeds into the "have your guards taking the most shots by a large margin," because, in theory, they should be the most likely to get fouled AND the best FT shooters.

And that formula has worked for us so far. Its pretty obvious in the box score from yesterday -- when we follow that formula, we usually win, when we don't, we almost always lose. Looking at the box score yesterday, you can see that Phelps took 19 shots, only made 3 and only got to the FT once. The 3-19 is survivable based on our offensive rebounding %, but if Phelps is going to go 3-19, he HAS to get to the line 4-5 times or we are going to lose, as we did.
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AgWhoop2015
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10:35a, 3/14/25
AG
Main issue is being slightly undersized at any position that would make the entry pass to Payne. We have seen a few games with Andy and Coleman making really good efforts at the high low entry.

The book is out on how to defend the Aggies. Miss St, Tenn and tu have accomplished the same game plan of dlsuccessfully denying drives for paint touches, leaving low percentage shooters wide open and forcing the 5 away from the basket (also forcing multiple dribbles in that process and ambushing).

It's then more or less streaky shooting scenarios that keep the Aggies in games. When we make FTs and 33% of our 3s, high chance of winning. We have seen what happens when that's not the case...
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Dimond1968
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12:08p, 3/14/25
Buzz's lack of feeding Payne drives me nuts. This guy is an easy 15 points on an effective shooting. Yet these guards are some of the least officiant and shoot away.
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jeremy
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In reply to TjgtAg08 • 1:04p, 3/14/25
AG
Excellent point and analysis. He makes even one more shot or gets to the line and makes even 1 more freethrow, no one is having this conversation.

Our team is one in which we need our guards to play very well and our role players to hit an occasional shot and rebound like crazy.

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jphelmet
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1:36p, 3/14/25
AG
Buzz is analytics blind. He has no feel for the actual game and making adjustments in real time. It's why his ceiling is what it is. Some coaches have and some don't. Buzz is too tied to his overriding beliefs to make wise decisions in the game. Yesterday was a prime example, especially with Phelps.
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rlb28
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1:42p, 3/14/25
AG
Why can't Payne set up on the block and stay there? Yes, he does catch it 18 feet from the basket, but why? Set up on the block, catch and make a move.
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Proposition Joe
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1:46p, 3/14/25
You could tell after his first season -- he's very big on analytics but very often misses the forest for the trees on it. He dives too deep sometimes. All of the analytical edges in the world can be offset if you simply recruit better shooters. Getting to the foul line is HUGE.... unless you have a team that can't make foul shots.

Buzz' analytics are things that would make a great team absolutely elite. His problem is doing the things that would make a good team great.
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Proposition Joe
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1:48p, 3/14/25
And I'm ok with feeding Payne (or Henry for that matter) for an immediate shot, but I do not want either one of them handling the basketball.
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NyAggie
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In reply to TjgtAg08 • 1:53p, 3/14/25
AG
TjgtAg08 said:
zooguy96 said:
AgEfan said:
FTAG 2000 said:
Buzz doesn't use analytics. Or if he does, he is locked on to the most useless ones
I would venture Buzz is the most analytics driven coach we have on campus. Very big on analytics.
Wel, then he must not use the analytics with Wade and Zhu taking half of the shots..... 21%....
When the base strategy is to get as many offensive rebounds as possible and therefore shoot more balls than the other team to offset a worse shooting percentage, having your smallest player on the court and your other lead guard shoot the majority of the shots is an EXCELLENT strategy.

Now, we can debate the idea of building a team around offensive rebounding and volume shooting, but thats the decision they made (for whatever reason), so if you are going to do that, you need as many good rebounders as possible NOT shooting the basketball.

Also, your secondary strategy is to get fouled as much as possible and get to the line more times than your opponent, so that also feeds into the "have your guards taking the most shots by a large margin," because, in theory, they should be the most likely to get fouled AND the best FT shooters.

And that formula has worked for us so far. Its pretty obvious in the box score from yesterday -- when we follow that formula, we usually win, when we don't, we almost always lose. Looking at the box score yesterday, you can see that Phelps took 19 shots, only made 3 and only got to the FT once. The 3-19 is survivable based on our offensive rebounding %, but if Phelps is going to go 3-19, he HAS to get to the line 4-5 times or we are going to lose, as we did.


This probably explains it best, and it's also why we are vulnerable to teams that are not deemed as good as us but also why we can beat teams deemed better than us

When we play our game the way we are supposed to we are extremely difficult to beat

Come tournament time we just need to do that consistently and not have stretched in games where we are futile or turn the ball over a ton
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Aston04
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1:53p, 3/14/25
AG
Unless playing some sort of high low game- Payne should never have the ball that far from the basket. Get him the freaking ball on the block.
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GrayMatter
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In reply to MarcAg • 2:19p, 3/14/25
AG
MarcAg said:
FTAG 2000 said:
Buzz doesn't use analytics.
This comment right here says you probably need to sit out on the basketball talk if you think that. Heavy heavy analytics guy. If anything, it might be too much emphasis on analytics
Yes agreed on that MarcAg. Buzz is hard headed about reversing course on these types of things.
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AggieBB
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In reply to FTAG 2000 • 4:41p, 3/14/25
AG
FTAG 2000 said:
Buzz doesn't use analytics. Or if he does, he is locked on to the most useless ones
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JJxvi
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4:44p, 3/14/25
AG
If you think Buzz chews nicotine gum, you're a moron!
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Method Man
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4:45p, 3/14/25
He needs to work on his fifteen foot no jumpers.
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Dimond1968
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In reply to jphelmet • 4:59p, 3/14/25
jphelmet said:
Buzz is analytics blind. He has no feel for the actual game and making adjustments in real time. It's why his ceiling is what it is. Some coaches have and some don't. Buzz is too tied to his overriding beliefs to make wise decisions in the game. Yesterday was a prime example, especially with Phelps.


This wasn't how Buzz coached at Marquette. It's something that overtime has become an issue.
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Heineken-Ashi
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In reply to Dimond1968 • 5:15p, 3/14/25
Dimond1968 said:
jphelmet said:
Buzz is analytics blind. He has no feel for the actual game and making adjustments in real time. It's why his ceiling is what it is. Some coaches have and some don't. Buzz is too tied to his overriding beliefs to make wise decisions in the game. Yesterday was a prime example, especially with Phelps.


This wasn't how Buzz coached at Marquette. It's something that overtime has become an issue.
Wasn't helpful in two overtimes either
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