First, even IF true, you have to ask is that "good enough" if there's a belief we've topped out. But moving on:

1. Gillispie years 20 years ago took an abysmal program in just 3 years to a Sweet 16 and within one failed layup of an Elite 8. Yes folks, the right coach at the right time can do it, even starting at ground zero with no program legacy.

2. Turgeon years made 4 Tourneys in 4 years, advancing to 2nd round in 3 of them. Fell just short of Sweet 16 with:

a. 9th seed. second round 2pt loss to #1 Final Four UCLA on virtually their home court getting screwed on last second shot;
b. 8th seed. second round loss to #1/Final 4 UConn
c. 5th seed. secnd round loss to #4 Purdue in OT. Purdue knocked out by eventual National Champ Duke.

In final year 7th seed- lost in first round to #10 Fl St.

Kennedy years 2012-2019. Most agree Kennedy not the best coach, whether due to health or otherwise. Still, in 2 of his last 4 years:

a. 3 seed 3rd round Sweet 16 losing to 2 seed/Final 4 OU in 2016
b. 7 seed 3rd round Sweet 16, losing to 3 seed Final 4/ runner up Michigan

This WAS NOT a program with no national relevancy prior to Buzz.


Buzz years in 6 years has managed to "elevate" us to a frst round loss and two 2nd round losses in last three years:

a. 7th seed. lost to #10 Penn St, who lost in next round
b. 9th seed. beat 8th seed. lost to #1 Houston in OT, who lost in next round.
c. 4th seed. beat 13th seed. lost to 5th seed Michigan by 9pts.


I believe it is a COMPLETELY FALSE NARRATIVE that Buzz has A&M in a lofty place it's never been or doesn't deserve to be.

Is THIS our best chance of success? the above says otherwise.

Does anybody believe we're in a lofty place we've never been before?

We're in a lofty place compared to where we were in 2012

I don't think anyone believe we are in a lofty place that we've never been before.

I think a lot of folks, myself included, just think that we have an invisible ceiling of sweet 16 until we start supporting hoops better, which includes funding basketball nil at a higher level than it is now.

Divining Rod said:

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bobinator said:

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Does anybody believe we're in a lofty place we've never been before?

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yeah, bascally. the narrative from a multitude is that Buzz has this program established and poised, and we have a bad chance of finding someone to put us bettwr.

Seriously Bob- you're all over this board (which i like and appreciate)- you know better than to question that.

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Some people can't handle anything that's perceived as "negative" even when the facts present themselves

I read this board too much due to my inexplicable love for Aggie basketball. I do not think anyone on this board believes this program is in its 'loftiest' position in history.

But I think you're misreading that camp. Or at least most of it.

There are a couple of "Buzz is awesome we should do whatever it takes to keep him" people, but they're as unhinged as the few who also think we should spend $15M to fire him. The two extremes are both bad outlier takes that it's not worth spending time arguing with.

The reality is that he has brought a level of consistency we've only achieved once before, and when we achieved it we weren't able to keep either coach involved. So being able to achieve that, and bring back the coach who did it, actually is something we've never done before. Wanting to keep Buzz Williams around is a perfectly logical thing to want.

Your post focuses exclusively on NCAA Tournament results, but if you stack up every year of Aggie Basketball since BCG took over by Torvik ranking at the end of the season, the best one is BCG's 2007 team, the next best is Mark Turgeon's 2010 team, then Turgeon's 2008 team, then Kennedy's 2016 team, but then Buzz would have four of the next six best teams. (Kennedy's 2018 team, BCG's 2006 team.)

So you take our best years in recent history, and Buzz has four of the top ten. That's not nothing. It's pretty good!

But, on the other hand, it's not so good that we should be bending over backwards and paying him even more to keep him if he wants to move on. The results are good, but this is a new era of basketball now and whether he's really suited to it or not is a worthy question.

I think the majority of the regulars on this board fall into the camp of: Buzz has been good enough that there's no reason to fire him now, certainly not bad enough that it's worth $15M to fire him, but if he leaves then that's fine, we shouldn't be killing ourselves to keep him for sure.

please explain how it's goaltending to ask if anyone really has the opinion that he's saying a lot of people have

bobinator said:

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please explain how it's goaltending to ask if anyone really has the opinion that he's saying a lot of people have

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Your constant, at all costs, defending Buzz, even when he laid out the facts about the program, and what Buzz has done

Youre constantly goaltending and it works here because there's enough of our fanbase that keeps their heads in the sand

No. I'm not. I even started a thread with one of the things I like least about him that's currently one of the top threads on this board. I've criticized how this staff is put together, how he interacts with the fan base, his defensive system...

You're just reading what you want to read

Aggie Dad 26 said:

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bobinator said:

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please explain how it's goaltending to ask if anyone really has the opinion that he's saying a lot of people have

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Your constant, at all costs, defending Buzz, even when he laid out the facts about the program, and what Buzz has done

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bobinator said:

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But I think you're misreading that camp. Or at least most of it.

There are a couple of "Buzz is awesome we should do whatever it takes to keep him" people, but they're as unhinged as the few who also think we should spend $15M to fire him. The two extremes are both bad outlier takes that it's not worth spending time arguing with.

The reality is that he has brought a level of consistency we've only achieved once before, and when we achieved it we weren't able to keep either coach involved. So being able to achieve that, and bring back the coach who did it, actually is something we've never done before. Wanting to keep Buzz Williams around is a perfectly logical thing to want.

Your post focuses exclusively on NCAA Tournament results, but if you stack up every year of Aggie Basketball since BCG took over by Torvik ranking at the end of the season, the best one is BCG's 2007 team, the next best is Mark Turgeon's 2010 team, then Turgeon's 2008 team, then Kennedy's 2016 team, but then Buzz would have four of the next six best teams. (Kennedy's 2018 team, BCG's 2006 team.)

So you take our best years in recent history, and Buzz has four of the top ten. That's not nothing. It's pretty good!

But, on the other hand, it's not so good that we should be bending over backwards and paying him even more to keep him if he wants to move on. The results are good, but this is a new era of basketball now and whether he's really suited to it or not is a worthy question.

I think the majority of the regulars on this board fall into the camp of: Buzz has been good enough that there's no reason to fire him now, certainly not bad enough that it's worth $15M to fire him, but if he leaves then that's fine, we shouldn't be killing ourselves to keep him for sure.

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Exactly

Divining Rod said:

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I DO think it would be good for Aggie basketball to go in a different direction under a different coach, and do hope he decides to leave or retire- eapecially with this depleted roster and perfect rebuilding year.

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And this is a perfectly reasonable take. Based on most of the threads I think most of the board regulars are fine either way. If he leaves, it's a good time to make some changes anyway and it's not like he's a perfect coach for sure. If he stays, great, let's build this thing back up again.

The thing people have to understand though is this level of consistency isn't easy to achieve here.

On top of that, there's also a history of holding on to bad coaches for too long. I think there's a reasonable fear that if Buzz leaves and the replacement sucks that we're looking at 4-5 years before we're even back to this point again. Hell Kennedy didn't make the tournament until his fifth season at which point we signed him to a contract extension before the NCAA Tournament even started.

Aggie Dad 26 said:

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bobinator said:

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please explain how it's goaltending to ask if anyone really has the opinion that he's saying a lot of people have

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Your constant, at all costs, defending Buzz, even when he laid out the facts about the program, and what Buzz has done

Youre constantly goaltending and it works here because there's enough of our fanbase that keeps their heads in the sand

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This is absurd and incorrect, and I would counter with "your negativity that just turns into sour bashing due to your inability to get everybody here to agree with you has made you one of the bottom 5 most unlikable posters on this board".

I don't feel like bob goaltends for Buzz at all.

But he does love to pull the "yeah, but is this really worth discussing?" card in the middle of a dozen new topics he's created about things we've discussed dozens of times