Since 1985 we've produced better basketball players than...

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PascalsWager
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11:55a, 4/9/25
AG
...Houston, Texas Tech, Baylor, Bama, Tennessee, Auburn, etc. Since 2005 (the TRUE birth of Aggie Basketball) the only teams with CLEARLY more NBA talent than us is true blue bloods like Florida, UCLA, Kentucky, and Duke. I challenge you to go team by team; we're right up there with anyone.

I'll take Khris's career over anyone from the 6 mentioned schools and many beyond. Khris has more meaningful minutes (playoff minutes), efficiency, and team success than Alan Houston and Latrell Sprewell. Deandre has more accolades and playoff minutes than Antonio McDyess or anyone I can find from the 6. That's just the top end. When we start to include plus-plus playoff rotations guys like Robert Williams and Alex Caruso, even fewer programs have our depth. Our 6th or 7th best player in Antoine Wright BY HIMSELF played more NBA playoff minutes than the sum total of playoff minutes by ALL Houston Cougars who've entered the league since the 64 team tournament (1985). That's with 10 years of Sampson being there.

We look at our program as a basketball nothing. But we're really a enormous underachiever. Not merely theoretically, but in the real world. With the talent that's walked through the doors at Reed we should've made a Final 4 run or two. Buzz took us FAR from our "tradition"; and it was fun for a while. We were playing with marginal talent and overachieving. We have ZERO guys appearing on any top 100 draft boards. ZERO drafted players in 6 years and very likely zero future NBA minutes played on the 2024-25 team. In fact Buzz has only had two first round draft picks in 16 years with 4 overall drafted players. MAYBE the guys at Maryland will improve dramatically and get a shot; but right now they're not close. The 4 seed and tournament wins are a testament to hard work on and off the court by a limited group of guys. WHY we had that talent level is a question we bury with the Buzz era.

In his press conference, Bucky said he knows who built this program: the former players. Its time to bring all the former players home and make them part of the program (in whatever, even nominal capacity) including and especially the guys who've had success in the NBA. Most successful tournament rosters were built either with older players who will likely play in Europe after a g league stint OR with one and dones. I think we offer a third way; we have proof of concept over 3 different regimes. Evaluate and develop low 4 stars and high 3 stars into sophomores and juniors who enter the draft as a first rounders. We now have an NBA offense to sell! If Bucky gets THOSE players and develops them as we always have, then we will become a truly great basketball program.
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_lefraud_
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12:05p, 4/9/25
AG
Great post.

But calling an A&M team underachieving is calling water, wet.
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bobinator
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In reply to PascalsWager • 12:11p, 4/9/25
AG
I think it's kind of ridiculous to say we "should" have made a Final Four run or two based on talent when that talent is spread out over 20 years.

DeAndre, Antoine and Khris all had the same issue which was a coaching change. Antoine played two seasons for an absolutely terrible coach and then played one season on a halfway decent team and even THAT team only made the NIT. DeAndre played one year and that was Turgeon's first season. Middleton was ready to take a big step forward as a player and then Turgeon leaves, Kennedy comes in, and Middleton can't get healthy that next season anyway, only playing in 17 games and shooting 26% from 3 and 42% from the field when he does play.

Those are three very talented players, but none of them really got to show what they were capable of on a good team with a consistent coaching staff. We can look back and say that Turgeon didn't know how to best use Jordan or something but he had to figure out how to use everyone on the team, a team that included Bryan Davis and Joseph Jones.
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superunknown
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12:19p, 4/9/25
AG
Great post...one of my favorite parts of the press conference was him opening the door to players from the past. No idea what Buzz did (if anything) but the idea of Caruso, Middleton, Time Lord, Jordan showing up for Aggie basketball camps is exciting. Even the "old" guys like Acie, Antoine, Sloan etc have value...if you can't write the history of Aggie hoops without those names, seems like a no brainer to have them around for the future.
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bobinator
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12:20p, 4/9/25
AG
I guess another way of looking at is is how many of our teams do we think actually significantly underachieved relative to their talent?

'08 and '12 probably, but those were both first year coaching staffs.

'17, '18 and '19, but that's why Kennedy finally got fired, and the '18 team ended on a high note.
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greg.w.h
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In reply to _lefraud_ • 12:48p, 4/9/25
AG
_lefraud_ said:
Great post.

But calling an A&M team underachieving is calling water, wet.
But is water wet???
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PascalsWager
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In reply to bobinator • 2:47p, 4/9/25
AG
bobinator said:
I guess another way of looking at is is how many of our teams do we think actually significantly underachieved relative to their talent?

'08 and '12 probably, but those were both first year coaching staffs.

'17, '18 and '19, but that's why Kennedy finally got fired, and the '18 team ended on a high note.
You've honed in, uncharitably, on what was a throwaway remark. Generally, teams with talent levels 2 or 3 standard deviations worse than what we've had have lucked their way into Elite 8s and Final 4s. I'm just surprised we haven't stumbled into one deep run. I'm not saying any specific teams or coaches failed.

You are correct about all the teams and players in context. That being said, if we look at all 80 teams that have made the final 4 since 2005, they weren't all operating under perfect conditions or circumstances. We've been unlucky.
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bobinator
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In reply to PascalsWager • 3:05p, 4/9/25
AG
I agree it's a little unlucky we haven't made a deeper run. But it seemed like part of your point is that we've underachieved relative to our overall talent.

My point was that sure, maybe our high end talent has been really good, but it's not like we've had many just uber-talented teams that greatly under-performed (like we famously have in some other sports.)
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PascalsWager
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In reply to bobinator • 3:24p, 4/9/25
AG
bobinator said:
I agree it's a little unlucky we haven't made a deeper run. But it seemed like part of your point is that we've underachieved relative to our overall talent.

My point was that sure, maybe our high end talent has been really good, but it's not like we've had many just uber-talented teams that greatly under-performed (like we famously have in some other sports.)
I think you're interpreting my post more negatively that I intended. We've had guys playing real minutes in the NBA on our roster almost consecutively for 15 years before Buzz got here. Only getting 3 sweet 16s out of that run is underachieving. But I'm saying that to highlight our upside for talent acquisition and development, not to blame individuals teams, players, or coaches (though we CAN nitpick).

I'm celebrating that we can finally marry the two ideas of developing truly meaningful NBA players with an offense that lets the flourish. That was the point of the post.
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Heineken-Ashi
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3:35p, 4/9/25
To take a team with Alex Caruso, Tyler Davis, Danuel House, Jalen Jones, DJ Hogg, Admon Gilder, and Tony Trocha Morelos to a Sweet 16 only to get blown out by an Oklahoma team where all you had to do was shut down one player.. that's worse than Buzz-like coaching. But at least they made the Sweet 16.
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catfan
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3:46p, 4/9/25
Danuel House played two years at UH until Sampson arrived.

In the NIL era, it'll be tough to claim developmental success.

Five stars didn't regularly arrive at UH until Quentin Grimes' transfer. 76er
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bobinator
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In reply to PascalsWager • 3:47p, 4/9/25
AG
Maybe I just read it wrong then because I do agree with that. Some folks still act like we're the pre-BCG program.
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bobinator
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In reply to Heineken-Ashi • 3:50p, 4/9/25
AG
That "one player" also lit up the one seed right after us for 37 points so I don't really think that's exactly coaching malpractice. I'd argue getting that far behind Northern Iowa was worse than the Oklahoma game.
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Aston04
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4:18p, 4/9/25
AG
The OU game and Michigan sweet 16 games were an absolute embarrassment by BK. Completely non-competitive blowout right out of the gate games, when we should have been extremely competitive, if not beating them.

But then we were totally outclassed in coaching, so it's not surprising. Especially the Michigan SS game.
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OwensTX
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In reply to PascalsWager • 5:35p, 4/9/25
PascalsWager said:
...Houston, Texas Tech, Baylor, Bama, Tennessee, Auburn, etc. Since 2005 (the TRUE birth of Aggie Basketball) the only teams with CLEARLY more NBA talent than us is true blue bloods like Florida, UCLA, Kentucky, and Duke. I challenge you to go team by team; we're right up there with anyone.

I'll take Khris's career over anyone from the 6 mentioned schools and many beyond. Khris has more meaningful minutes (playoff minutes), efficiency, and team success than Alan Houston and Latrell Sprewell. Deandre has more accolades and playoff minutes than Antonio McDyess or anyone I can find from the 6. That's just the top end. When we start to include plus-plus playoff rotations guys like Robert Williams and Alex Caruso, even fewer programs have our depth. Our 6th or 7th best player in Antoine Wright BY HIMSELF played more NBA playoff minutes than the sum total of playoff minutes by ALL Houston Cougars who've entered the league since the 64 team tournament (1985). That's with 10 years of Sampson being there.

We look at our program as a basketball nothing. But we're really a enormous underachiever. Not merely theoretically, but in the real world. With the talent that's walked through the doors at Reed we should've made a Final 4 run or two. Buzz took us FAR from our "tradition"; and it was fun for a while. We were playing with marginal talent and overachieving. We have ZERO guys appearing on any top 100 draft boards. ZERO drafted players in 6 years and very likely zero future NBA minutes played on the 2024-25 team. In fact Buzz has only had two first round draft picks in 16 years with 4 overall drafted players. MAYBE the guys at Maryland will improve dramatically and get a shot; but right now they're not close. The 4 seed and tournament wins are a testament to hard work on and off the court by a limited group of guys. WHY we had that talent level is a question we bury with the Buzz era.

In his press conference, Bucky said he knows who built this program: the former players. Its time to bring all the former players home and make them part of the program (in whatever, even nominal capacity) including and especially the guys who've had success in the NBA. Most successful tournament rosters were built either with older players who will likely play in Europe after a g league stint OR with one and dones. I think we offer a third way; we have proof of concept over 3 different regimes. Evaluate and develop low 4 stars and high 3 stars into sophomores and juniors who enter the draft as a first rounders. We now have an NBA offense to sell! If Bucky gets THOSE players and develops them as we always have, then we will become a truly great basketball program.

The problem is that programs are judged by how they finish in March / April. Two teams in the state finished in the Top 8 and one of those played for the title. The other one played for the title a few years ago.

A&M absolutely has to get past the Sweet 16 at some point or it doesn't matter how many great players go through the program from a perception standpoint.
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George Costanza
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9:40p, 4/9/25
According to this site the number of NBA players from each program since 2005:

A&M 13
TT 11
Auburn 9
Houston 15
Tennessee 17
Baylor 23
Alabama 15

https://basketball.realgm.com/ncaa/conferences/
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The Lost
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10:00p, 4/9/25
Thus thread is dumb. Minimal, if any of Deandre Jordan's nba career has anything to do with a&m.

He didn't put up Blake griffin ou numbers or Kevin Durant ut numbers. Only true sickos even know he went to a&m for a year.
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_lefraud_
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In reply to Heineken-Ashi • 10:02p, 4/9/25
AG
Heineken-Ashi said:
To take a team with Alex Caruso, Tyler Davis, Danuel House, Jalen Jones, DJ Hogg, Admon Gilder, and Tony Trocha Morelos to a Sweet 16 only to get blown out by an Oklahoma team where all you had to do was shut down one player.. that's worse than Buzz-like coaching. But at least they made the Sweet 16.

That team also needed a sports miracle to beat a 14 seed in the round of 32.
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TopoTacos
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In reply to Heineken-Ashi • 7:25a, 4/10/25
AG
Heineken-Ashi said:
To take a team with Alex Caruso, Tyler Davis, Danuel House, Jalen Jones, DJ Hogg, Admon Gilder, and Tony Trocha Morelos to a Sweet 16 only to get blown out by an Oklahoma team where all you had to do was shut down one player.. that's worse than Buzz-like coaching. But at least they made the Sweet 16.


I mean, that squad was also down double digits in the last minute against Northern Iowa. Kennedy was just an alright coach on his best day.
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bobinator
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In reply to The Lost • 8:25a, 4/10/25
AG

Quote:

He didn't put up Blake griffin ou numbers or Kevin Durant ut numbers. Only true sickos even know he went to a&m for a year.
One of my favorite TexAgs hills to die on is "actually DeAndre was pretty good here." Obviously he wasn't Griffin or Durant, but he was a pretty solid player. Despite splitting a front court with more veteran players Joseph Jones and Bryan Davis he put up 7.9 points, 6 boards and 1.3 blocks in 20 minutes per game.
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