To start, I know it's wild stuff, but here is our basketball coach actually talking about basketball at some kind of coaches clinic recently.

Semi-interesting video but serves as a launch point for a conversation, how much do we really think we're going to press and how good at it are we going to be?

bobinator said:

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One thing I'm interested in is that a lot of press teams historically have been incredibly undisciplined teams fundamentally. In fact that's part of why they press is to break the game down into an open court game.

Could a really disciplined press work better than the kinds we've seen in the past?

Another big wildcard/concern is how the officials are going to call it. One of the advantages of being a press team is you can sometimes get away with contact in the back court that you can't get away with in the front court.

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At the risk of distracting the conversation, is there an analogue in Boeheim's use of zone consistently?

My latest committed press use memory was Mike Anderson at Mizzou then Arkansas. And I thought it turned out like MM suggested but the commitment seemed to be there. It helped us by teaching us to deal with the press while usually our lack of three point shooting was exposed by zones longer than presses.

My take is the press to consume as much of the ten second bring up timer is what we have been doing over the last three coaches. BCG just taught "redneck", puke in the trash can toughness so his was a little different when he used it,

I think you're getting close to the question "is the full-court press a gimmick defense", btw. But asking can it seriously work?

I love the concept. Being different will make it harder to prepare for us, especially on short notice and tourneys. Even if we "break even" the whole thing is predicated on being in better shape right? So, as was mentioned, theoretically we would have more of an advantage later in games, if we are actually in better shape.

In relation to this, I'm really interested to see how the subbing works and how the rotations will look like.

I'm all in for the chaos!

I feel like it only works if you have ten players good enough to wear teams down and by that I mean good defensively and offensively . If you have a 4-5 great defenders that are next to no threat to score then you really have an issue managing substitutions and fatigue issues.

It's going to be fascinating to watch it develop imo. I think it could be rough for awhile but temper that with the non conference schedule being on the weaker side and perhaps allowing for some experimenting with lineup combinations.

I'm pretty sure it's gonna be frustrating, especially early on, with alot of easy buckets given up. I really hate giving up easy buckets. As we get better at it we should create more turnovers and sped-up shots, which are just as good as a turnover. Definitely gonna be an adjustment.

It's not like last year's defense was spectacular so we shouldn't be giving up way more points than last year. If we do give up more points, I am confident we can make up for it with better offensive talent, quicker pace and more possessions.

bobinator said:

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To start, I know it's wild stuff, but here is our basketball coach actually talking about basketball at some kind of coaches clinic recently.

Semi-interesting video but serves as a launch point for a conversation, how much do we really think we're going to press and how good at it are we going to be?

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Wait, what is his favorite motivational book?

I e always agreed with what Bob Knight said about pressing. You can't beat a good team with a press.

Granted it's the exception rather than the the rule but pressing teams have won national titles

I also think people aren't considering how much the game has changed. If your press is speeding up the other teams shot selection maybe that knocks down their three point percentage a bit, maybe it makes them take more twos than threes if they're a team good at threes, that sort of thing.

There's a lot of layers within the game math that could make a press advantageous (if you're good at it) other than just turnovers and points off turnovers that may not immediately be obvious.

Things I'm going to be looking for:

- Opponent minutes distribution: are we deeper than our opponents and does a wide open game mean they're going further into their bench than they want to (this one seems highly likely)
- Our 3pt attempts/2 pt attempts: does a wide open game, when that's what we want, mean we're getting the looks that we want to get easier? (put another way: does the pace improve our offense more than it hurts our defense?)
- Opponent 3pt/2pt distribution compared to normal: Are they shooting the shots they normally like to shoot or is the style of play throwing them off what they like to do?
- How do the opponents best players play against us? A possible advantage of full court defense is you get the ball out of the hands of the other team's best player early in the shot clock. Pace can also force bigs up and down the court in a way that can take them out of the game sometimes

How is our conditioning going to be I wonder? My impression is this offense is as run and gun as it gets. Couple that with full court presses and we better be in dang good shape.

nbbob said:

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I've always agreed with what Bob Knight said about pressing. You can't beat a good team with a press.

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This is fundamentally true. Good point guards love when they get pressed and when you play in the best conference in America you will have a lot of good point guards.

bobinator said:

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I also think people aren't considering how much the game has changed. If your press is speeding up the other teams shot selection maybe that knocks down their three point percentage a bit, maybe it makes them take more twos than threes if they're a team good at threes, that sort of thing.

There's a lot of layers within the game math that could make a press advantageous (if you're good at it) other than just turnovers and points off turnovers that may not immediately be obvious.

Things I'm going to be looking for:

- Opponent minutes distribution: are we deeper than our opponents and does a wide open game mean they're going further into their bench than they want to (this one seems highly likely)
- Our 3pt attempts/2 pt attempts: does a wide open game, when that's what we want, mean we're getting the looks that we want to get easier? (put another way: does the pace improve our offense more than it hurts our defense?)
- Opponent 3pt/2pt distribution compared to normal: Are they shooting the shots they normally like to shoot or is the style of play throwing them off what they like to do?
- How do the opponents best players play against us? A possible advantage of full court defense is you get the ball out of the hands of the other team's best player early in the shot clock. Pace can also force bigs up and down the court in a way that can take them out of the game sometimes

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Samford was #11 in the country last year at 3PA.

Can Bucky get A&M elite shooting talent within the next 2 years (similar to that of BYU in 24-25 (37%))? If not within 3 year window, how quickly does A&M give up on him? Because that's the type of talent you need to have a chance with Bucky Ball.

What's the over / under on a A&M - Bama game this year? 216?

bobinator said:

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Redfishag93 said:

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It's not like last year's defense was spectacular so we shouldn't be giving up way more points than last year. If we do give up more points, I am confident we can make up for it with better offensive talent, quicker pace and more possessions.

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What? Last year's defense was one of the best we've ever had. It's a pretty safe bet that we're going to give up WAY more points.

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Just on number of possessions we should give up way more points. I want to see how points given up and TO's per possession compare

Yeah, I'd guess we're going to be worse across the board defensively with the exception of maybe turnover percentage but we were pretty good at that too.

True but Kalkbrenner was an animal who demanded attention allowing for spacing and of course finished at the rim at a high rate to help Creighton out there. Looking at their roster this year NBA GM's would be jealous of Creighton's frontcourt size.

I'm sure Moneyball is the only thing that gives Bucky a chance in year 1 in the SEC. Hopefully success will build upon that.

This is becoming an increasingly popular trend across basketball stemming out of Europe.

If you are a basketball junkie check all that Tuomas Iisalo has done (Memphis Griz HC) in Europe. Kind of a trendsetter to deeper rotations and the analytics behind it.

We even saw OKC and Indiana play more rotation guys in these NBA finals than probably any Finals matchups ever goin 10 on a rotation instead of your standard 7/8 (or 5 a la JJ Redick).

There's also an overall load management aspect to it, especially at the pro levels. I saw interesting stats but can't remember where about how much more players are running now with higher temp basketball. It was a huge difference even on a per-game level and they were theorizing that it's led to an increase in certain injuries.

Yep. And I've seen the counter arguments that possessions and pace was higher or similar way back when and they didn't need to "load manage". -However, that doesn't take into consideration the amount of force these guys have to exert now just to be able to be on the court (cut, defend, jump) with athletes of 2025.

I know Mark Pope advocated for 40 games for a season now due to transfer portal but just like the NBA I think more games waters down the product. College has it right with no back to backs and two games a week - for the most part. If we start going 3+ games a week, especially considering these are "amateurs" injuries and quality will nose dive.

What's interesting is as you go up in levels of basketball, all the way from JH to NBA, the skill level negates effectiveness of press.

With that being said, VCU and Witchita St have had modern success with the zone presses, but even those teams pre dated the 5 shooters on the floor style.

I agree that pace of play and depth of rotation is the key to success. It will also be to the team's detriment when coaches slow it down. I keep thinking about the Buzz vs Bama games over the past few years. I think Bama adopts the bucky ball offensive philosophy, but isn't there on the press defense.

The play style is more effective the more offensive options are on the floor. If the Bigs are able to stretch the floor and the defense respects their threat it will enhance ball movement for the extra pass and best shot. If 1-5 are shooters, it will be fun to watch.

We're also just using the word "press" as a blanket for any kind of full court defense. I don't know that we're actually going to trap all over the court which is what people tend to think of in a "press." We'll do some of that, but we're not just going to be trapping out of a zone press come hell-or-high-water every possession.

Being different will make it more challenging to prepare for us, especially on short notice and in tournaments.