The ACC is Done (Next Wave of Realignment)

5,838 Views | 59 Replies | Last: 12 yr ago by Fins Up!
SEC Champs
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I've been sucked into the conference realignment drama for a couple years now, but I think the **** is about to hit the fan on the East Coast. Maryland's departure as a founding member of the ACC is extremely significant because it proves that revenue, TV markets, and brand recognition have officially trumped tradition, rivalries, and regional ties. When the dust settles, I believe we will have four BCS super-conferences, and the ACC will not be one of them. The Big Ten will be the most powerful and wealthy conference in the nation, the Big 12 will be the most prestigious in football, and the SEC will be the most homogenous and stable conference. As much as I love our new home, our conference simply has less to gain than the other two unless it decided to expand more into the northeast and midwest.

Jim Delaney set the wheels in motion two years ago by grabbing Nebraska, which came as a surprise to some, but not to those who remember the glory days under Tom Osborne. We knew Nebraska was unhappy playing second fiddle to Big Texas influence (and unequal profits) and had long coveted a home in the Big Ten. Colorado’s subsequent jump to the Pac-12 wasn’t a shocker, either; regionally, it just made sense. The real game-changer came when Larry Scott almost convinced 4 Big XII schools to join the Pac-12 (with Colorado). It was a sign that a new dawn in college sports was upon us—when a conference’s success would be dictated by network deals and television sets, not competition. Instead of following the crowd, however, A&M sought independence in the SEC, bringing Mizzou with them, and we all thought the Big 12 was doomed.

That’s when Mike Slive made one of the most brilliant moves in the game of conference realignment: he signed a bowl deal with the Big 12 giving it long-term legitimacy as a major BCS conference. Consequently, I think it will lead to the demise of the ACC, allowing the SEC to expand into North Carolina and Virginia. Think about it, the Big 12 has no viewer markets of interest to the SEC (except, perhaps, Oklahoma City) so saving it would not have hindered SEC interests. The ACC, on the other hand, is in direct competition with the SEC, yet as long as it remained a viable BCS player, the chances of the SEC expanding into ACC territory are slim. Therefore, by saving the Big 12, the ACC became the 5th wheel in conference realignment and the squeakiest in terms of football. Maryland’s announcement for departure was the writing on the wall, making it a pot of gold waiting to be raided by Delaney, Slive, and Bowlsby.

In the meantime, all eyes are on Maryland and their looming court battle to leave the ACC. If it can be accomplished with relatively low cost and legal fees, expect the dominoes to fall hard. So this is what I think happens if/when the ACC implodes:

1. Big Ten adds Ga Tech, Virginia, and possibly UNC and Duke. All are AAU schools with a high reputation in research and academia. It would also give Delaney a continuous market from Minneapolis, Chicago, Detroit, Ohio, Pittsburgh, and New York all the way through DC, Raleigh, and Atlanta.

2. Big XII adds Clemson and FSU, instantly legitimizing it’s football prowess again, and I don’t think they stop there. This might be a stretch, but with the demise of the ACC, I can see bids for Notre Dame and BYU to follow, allowing those schools to retain their current TV rights while giving them a BCS conference to play in (it will be vital to belong to one of the four BCS conferences as we move toward a playoff system). Though hard to swallow, if this happened, the Big 12 would become the ultimate football conference with the two most renown programs plus OU, FSU, BYU, and Clemson. What recruit would turn down an opportunity to play those teams?

3. SEC adds NC State and Va Tech, expanding their dominance to all the southern states and the valuable DC market. UNC and UVA would be the preferred choice, but I think they won’t be persuaded once the Big Ten moves south. The SEC would, therefore, retain the position of being the most homogeneous, stable conference, with the potential to add Pitt and Cincinatti for additional media coverage.

4. The remaining ACC schools merge with Big East and lose automatic BCS eligibility.

The wildcards here are UNC and Duke—whether they split or stick together. Naturally, I would love for the SEC to gain UNC over NC State, but I can’t see them passing on the opportunity to join the most prestigious academic conference in the country along with their neighbors to the north and south, not to mention the potential landslide of cash when the Big Ten Network expands to the south. (Btw, the dark horse here is the PAC12. You know Scott won't idly sit by while all this happens…)

In conclusion: The landscape of college football has changed, and the Big Ten and Big 12 are in prime positions, along with the SEC, to pillage what’s left of the poor ACC. When the dust settles, four super-conferences will emerge with their own Networks, and the days of regional rivalries and decades of tradition will be a thing of the past. Obviously, the big winner here would be the Big Ten. They would get the best of the ACC in terms of academics and TV markets. With coverage from Minneapolis to Atlanta, the B1G would become the most powerful and wealthy conference ever. The Big 12 would get the second biggest boost, adding Florida and South Carolina markets and instant brand recognition. If they somehow added ND, the Big 12 would become the most recognized football conference in America. The SEC still comes out ahead by adding NC and DC markets, but add the least in terms of athletic prestige and market value.

[This message has been edited by Wede01 (edited 1/1/2013 6:10p).]
redline248
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AG
that is one heck of a post. I think I disagree with you about the big 10. they will have to rely on east coast states for TV, and they don't value college football.

I suppose you pick unc to join the big10 in this scenario to remain partnered with Duke for bball. I would agree that would make the big10 a great bball conference, but the fact remains that the best D1 football talent is in the south, meaning the SEC will continue to dominate the sport.

[This message has been edited by redline248 (edited 12/29/2012 4:54p).]
TXAGBQ76
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AG
How does the PAC compete
Bamatab
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Interesting take, but I disagree with a couple of the points that you made.

The first is the fact that you stated that the Big 12 would be the most prestigious in football. That is not, nor will be the case. Adding FSU & Clemson will not push them past the SEC, and they will never get ND to join in football. Even if they did get ND to join in football (which again, they won't), the best they could hope for is matching the SEC in football prestige. The SEC had 6 teams in the to 10 this year, and is working on their 7th BCS championship. The Big 12 will not pass the SEC when it comes to football.

The second point that I disagree with is UNC going to the B1G. I've been reading their message boards for some time, and their fanbase is wants to go to the SEC by a very, very large margin over the B1G (they'd still prefer the ACC stay intact though). But they want nothing to do with joining the B1G while NCST joins the SEC. Their message boards remind me a lot of how this board was during the year(s) prior to aTm joining the SEC. If their PTB decide to go to the B1G, then they will be completely ignoring their fans and alumni.
redline248
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Another thing to consider is the new tv deal the sec is about to get which should blow away anything other conferences have.
SEC Champs
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AG
Thanks for the feedback.

redline248, I totally agree that the talent is in the south, but as Jim Delany has proven, conference expansion is about revenue--athletically and academically. Landing two AAU schools in the heart of Research Triangle while giving Virgina and Ga Tech natural rivals would be too good to pass up. Believe me, the Big Ten Network would be worth much, much more than the SEC Network if that happened: Minneapolis, Chicago, St. Louis, Kansas City, Detroit, Indy, Detroit, Cleveland, Cinci, Columbus, Pittsburgh, NYC, Philly, New Jersey, DC, Charlotte, Atlanta... That's a little under half of the US population, right?

TXAGBQ76, good question about the PAC. I doubt the schools would accept an east coast school, so I think they have littlest to work with. Their window for raiding the Big 12 passed when the Big 12 renegotiated their member agreements. Some have suggested UNLV and SDSU, which are less than savory alternatives, and BYU would never be accepted.

Bamatab, Notre Dame and t.u. are the media darlings of college athletics. I'm not saying they're better in football--I'm talking about their programs--the most popular and biggest, respectively, in college football. I'll answer your other point with a question, do you think UNC and Duke would go to the Big Ten if Virgina and Ga Tech have already decided to go?
Bamatab
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quote:
Bamatab, Notre Dame and t.u. are the media darlings of college athletics. I'm not saying they're better in football--I'm talking about their programs--the most popular and biggest, respectively, in college football. I'll answer your other point with a question, do you think UNC and Duke would go to the Big Ten if Virgina and Ga Tech have already decided to go?


The SEC schools have gotten more airtime on ESPN and national radio (especially on SiriusXM 91) over the last 5 years than both Texas and ND (with the lone exception of ND's current upcoming BCSCG). Heck, the SEC has been talked about so much that the fans from all the other conferences can't stand hearing it. Practically all of them want anyone else other than a SEC team to be in the BCSCG. The SEC is college football right now. Also take a look at the size of the stadiums and yearly athletic department revenue.

The SEC has 7 of the top 20 largest stadiums in college football. The Big 12 currently has 2 of the top 20, and would only have 4 if they added FSU, Clemson, & ND (ND is currently at #21). Here is a link to that info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_football_stadiums_by_capacity

As far a revenue goes, sure tu pulls in more revenue, but the only other Big 12 school in the current top 10 is OU at #8. The SEC has five in the top 10. ND is at #11, and FSU is at #17 (UGA & Arky are at #14 & #15). Here is a link to that info: http://businessofcollegesports.com/2012/03/21/top-50-highest-athletics-department-revenues/

As far as your question about UNC & Duke goes, I don't think where UVA or GT endup will be that big of a factor in determining where UNC or Duke goes. Neither UNC or Duke are tied to UVA or GT. Also, we don't even know if the B1G will expand past 16 teams. Back a few years back when Delany first publically stated that the B1G may expand, he stated they may take just 1 team or go to 16 teams. I have never heard any B1G official give a number bigger than 16 teams. But even if they do go to 18 or 20 teams, to say that UNC would automatically go there is a false assumption. They end up there, but based on their fans' views, that is far from a sure thing.

[This message has been edited by Bamatab (edited 12/29/2012 9:56p).]
SlackerAg
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If the Big Ten grows to 18+ teams, it could backfire if it dilutes the conference. More TV sets doesn't equal fan passion for football. The SEC has twice the Nielsen ratings and travels well. Slive is smart to be patient.

It's easier to add teams than remove them. I can only recall the Big East was able to kick out Temple many years ago. When the WAC was unwieldy at 16 teams, 8 teams defected to form the Mountain West.

Once the Big 12's "grant of rights" expires in 13 years or so, the PAC-12 will go in for the kill. The Texas & Oklahoma teams are the only ones worthy for expansion, since their geography limits their choices. By then, the Longhorn Network would have folded.

The SEC is the winner, since it won't have a piecemeal geographic footprint. Also, I think 16 teams are ideal to play all conference teams more often (w/ permanent rival):

14 teams (8 conf games, 2 divs) = Every 6 years
16 teams (8 conf games, 4 pods) = Every 4 years
18 teams (8 conf games, 3 pods) = Every 6 years

[This message has been edited by SlackerAg (edited 12/29/2012 10:36p).]
DRE06
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quote:
Thanks for the feedback.

redline248, I totally agree that the talent is in the south, but as Jim Delany has proven, conference expansion is about revenue--athletically and academically. Landing two AAU schools in the heart of Research Triangle while giving Virgina and Ga Tech natural rivals would be too good to pass up. Believe me, the Big Ten Network would be worth much, much more than the SEC Network if that happened: Minneapolis, Chicago, St. Louis, Kansas City, Detroit, Indy, Detroit, Cleveland, Cinci, Columbus, Pittsburgh, NYC, Philly, New Jersey, DC, Charlotte, Atlanta... That's a little under half of the US population, right?

TXAGBQ76, good question about the PAC. I doubt the schools would accept an east coast school, so I think they have littlest to work with. Their window for raiding the Big 12 passed when the Big 12 renegotiated their member agreements. Some have suggested UNLV and SDSU, which are less than savory alternatives, and BYU would never be accepted.

Bamatab, Notre Dame and t.u. are the media darlings of college athletics. I'm not saying they're better in football--I'm talking about their programs--the most popular and biggest, respectively, in college football. I'll answer your other point with a question, do you think UNC and Duke would go to the Big Ten if Virgina and Ga Tech have already decided to go?

1) UGA, not GT, controls Atlanta. Just like A&M, not UH, controls Houston. Mizzou plays a large role one St. Louis & KC.
2) A&M, Bama, LSU, Florida, Georgia, UT.......no conference will ever be able to match that history/fan base. Those schools also sit in the most talent rich area of the country. SEC will continue to dominate college football.
3) There is no school that delivers the NY/NJ market. NY/NJ doesn't give a damn about college football.
4) PAC is geographically isolated. They are screwed (see recent desperate additions of Utah and Colorado). Their best shot was grabbing the basket of A&M, Texas, & OU. That didn't happen, and likely won't happen.

I hate the BIG, but they have a great thing going. They are the SEC of the North, but with larger metropolitan areas. SEC controls the entire South. Those conferences can basically grab any teams they want during the next round of realignment, which will be to 16. PAC has very limited options to grow. Big XII will get whatever the SEC and BIG don't want (there will be options for the Big XII). Impact schools up for grab: ND, FSU, VT, Clemson, UNC........and to a lesser extent UVA, NCST, Duke, Miami, & GT.

[This message has been edited by Dre06 (edited 12/29/2012 11:27p).]

[This message has been edited by Dre06 (edited 12/30/2012 12:09a).]
Bamatab
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quote:
16 teams (8 conf games, 4 pods) = Every 4 years


Actually with the rotating 4 pod scenario, you would play each pod every 3 years (as long as you don't do home & home in back to back years). You would always play the teams in your pod, plus the 4 in whichever pod you are lined up with that year, plus a cross-pod rival (or one from each of the other pods to go to a 9 game conference schedule). You would rotate between the three other pods every year.
SlackerAg
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AG
I had assumed the 8th conference game would be the semi-final for the SEC Championship, since SEC coaches don't want 9 games. An example for A&M's 8 games would be:

3 West divison games
1 North division game
1 South divison game
1 East divison game
1 permanent rival (South Carolina)
1 semi-final game (or seeded non-playoff game)

Cycling every 4 years, the four North, South, & East divison teams would be played. Depending on the 8th game, it could be 3 years.
Bamatab
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SlackerAg, the NCAA bylaws would have to be changed if you want the winners of the 4 pods to play each other for the conference championship. They currently state that a conference has to have at least 12 teams, which have to be divided into 2 divisions, with each division playing a complete round robin schedule within the division.

The way to use pods and get around the bylaws is to align the 4 pods into 2 divisions every year. For instance one year you could line upvthe west & south pods to create a southwestern division, and the north & east pods to create a northwestern division. Then you rotate the pods the next year and align the north & west, and south & east. The third year you would line up the west & east, and north & south pods.
SlackerAg
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Thanks, I see. The pod rotation makes sense to keep things balanced. Maybe Slive can request the NCAA rule change, since a divisional SEC semi-final would be a cash cow.

The weaker Big Ten appears to be at a disadvantage when defining pods regionally, since traditional powers would unfairly grouped (that's why B1G & ACC have those silly "Leaders", "Legends", "Atlantic", "Coastal" names). If they tried this, Georgia Tech & Nebraska would actually have it easy, while Ohio State & Penn State would be screwed:

West: Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Illinois
North: Michigan, Mich St., Wisconsin, Northwestern
South: Ohio State, Indiana, Purdue, Penn State
East: Rutgers, Maryland, Virginia, Georgia Tech

The SEC is strong enough top-to-bottom to divide the pods fairly (though the East would be tough):

West: Texas A&M, LSU, Arkansas, Missouri
North: Tennessee, Vandy, Virginia Tech, Kentucky
South: Alabama, Auburn, Ole Miss, Miss State
East: Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina

[This message has been edited by SlackerAg (edited 12/30/2012 1:02a).]
JapanLSUfan
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The Big Ten will be the most powerful and wealthy conference in the nation, the Big 12 will be the most prestigious in football, and the SEC will be the most homogenous and stable conference.


What is your definition of wealth, power, and prestige?

You don't think an SEC superconference will get a bigger TV contract, win more national championships, and receive more national attention than the B12 and B10?

[This message has been edited by JapanLSUfan (edited 12/30/2012 1:17a).]
VanZandt92
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Interesting conjecture, but there isn't much to substantiate your guesses I don't think.
NormanAg
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quote:
The real game-changer came when Larry Scott almost convinced 4 Big XII schools to join the Pac-12...


I think you got that backwards. The Big 12 schools had much more desire to join the PAC-12 than the PAC-12 had in adding them. Especially after A&M said no and TTech and OSU entered the picture.

In the end, it was the PAC-12 turning down the Big 12 schools, not the Big 12 schools being "almost convinced to join the Pac-12".
agsalaska
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Great post. I agree with most of it, especially Slives decision to make an agreement with the big12 to isolate the ACC. I would not be surprised if that's exactly how this whole thing plays out.
AEK
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The PAC12 is the wild card here. There are only a few programs they could grab to get to 16...and a few are in the Big12-2-2+2 right now.

Edit: I meant to say there are only a few programs they would be willing to grab.

[This message has been edited by AEK (edited 12/31/2012 7:27p).]
NormanAg
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tu and ou only. Boren has been vocal about the SEC being a huge step down academically, which is pure BS. Boren has a very inflated opinion vis a vis ou's academic bonafides. The SEC would be a step UP academically for ou, but not as big a step as the PAC 12 would be.

And Boren would give his left testicle to be able to rub shoulders with Stanford, Cal, USC, UCLA, etc.

Things may change (not soon I suspect), but I have never heard even a whisper that would indicate ou could/would leave without osu in tow.

Lots of OSU grads in high positions in OK state politics right now. In my 20 years living here, that seems to be the norm.
VanZandt92
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that is a long dang OP. I'm having to read it a few more times
VanZandt92
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I think Va Tech probably has better academics than what you've implied.

I'd personally like to have both UVA and Va Tech. The former isn't particularly powerful in any sport, but they have a large, loyal following and obviously bring the academics, or they will until their current president screws them over with academic reforms.
Drink Juice, Shelby
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The "brilliance" behind the bowl game w the SEC? The big 12 shares the same amount of cash bw 10 members while we share bw 14.

Wasn't brilliant at all.
NormanAg
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Huh? It wasn't about the money. It was a strategic move in the realignment game, as explained quite well in the OP.
Bamatab
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The "brilliance" behind the bowl game w the SEC? The big 12 shares the same amount of cash bw 10 members while we share bw 14.

Wasn't brilliant at all.


As the OP stated, this was a move by Slive to further weaken the ACC since he seemingly isn't targeting any of the Big 12 schools.

But Slive also got us a tie-in with the Orange Bowl. Plus we have more bowl tie-ins overall, and will probably gain more once the playoff has been implemented. The SEC will pull in more combined bowl money per team than the Big 12 when all is said and done.
Ft Worth Ag
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quote:
tu and ou only. Boren has been vocal about the SEC being a huge step down academically, which is pure BS. Boren has a very inflated opinion vis a vis ou's academic bonafides. The SEC would be a step UP academically for ou, but not as big a step as the PAC 12 would be.

And Boren would give his left testicle to be able to rub shoulders with Stanford, Cal, USC, UCLA, etc.

Things may change (not soon I suspect), but I have never heard even a whisper that would indicate ou could/would leave without osu in tow.

Lots of OSU grads in high positions in OK state politics right now. In my 20 years living here, that seems to be the norm.


Until the other conferences form an academic consortium as the Big10 have done, to hob-nob doesn't translate into academic money and research flowing because of the athletic (football in particular) affiliation.

I agree with a poster above that the PAC12 is a wild card. Personally, and I could very well be wrong, the deadman walking is not the ACC but rather Big12.
AEK
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Regardless I think it gets interesting in the next few months. I think the decision in the Maryland exit fee will be the catalyst one way or another.

Also does anyone think the PAC 12 will stay at 12 if the B1G-ACC-SEC all go to 16? I guess the real question is who makes the first move? And who would the PAC go for?

I still think the PAC looks to pick off Texas, OU, BYU and one more higher profile school. I know OU is tied to OSU but if it gets to the point where you are re-aranging chairs on the deck of the Titanic, I think it will be every man for himself which is why I think they may even look to snag a Kansas (academic fit plus good basketball and a football patsy).

Realistically who is left in the PAC12 footprint that they would take? Boise, Nevada, SDSU, Hawaii, New Mexico, Utah State? I just don't see it.

And if OU is tied to OSU would the PAC move on to some one like a Tceh instead?
SlackerAg
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The schools which are "package deals" could get left behind together b/c they can't break free:

Oklahoma/OSU
Virginia/VT
N.Carolina/Duke
Kanasas/K-State

It's like carrying dead-weight sinking to the bottom of the ocean. A&M made a smart move to the SEC. With more conference realignment uncertainty coming, it feels nice to have stablity.
SEC Champs
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quote:
The schools which are "package deals" could get left behind together b/c they can't break free:

Oklahoma/OSU
Virginia/VT
N.Carolina/Duke
Kanasas/K-State

Of those four, I think only OU and OSU are a package deal. Virginia Tech joined the ACC in 2004 from the Big East so they've been apart longer than together. UNC is a state-funded school while Duke is supported by alumni and endowments. Kansas's interests are to preserve it's reputation as an elite basketball program.

It's been long suggested that UVA and UNC are Slive's primary targets. As a Virgina alum, he might have to pull to woo UVA to the SEC over the Big Ten. If so, we could see this:

SEC: UNC and UVA
B1G: GT and Duke
B12: FSU, Clem, NC State and V-Tech
SEC Champs
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Great article on SB Nation on the drivers behind conference realignment: revenue, brand recognition, and TV markets.

http://sbn.to/UxLXNK
Fins Up!
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Don't want UVA. VT is who fits the SEC.
Rat Fink
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quote:
The schools which are "package deals" could get left behind together b/c they can't break free:

Oklahoma/OSU
Virginia/VT
N.Carolina/Duke
Kanasas/K-State


Don't forget the front and rear doormats;
Texas/Baylor
AEK
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Texas ditches Baylor to go to greener pastures. Book it!
quidam65
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quote:
Virginia/VT

Not necessarily a package deal. If UVA goes to the B1G (as I expect) VT comes over to the SEC (and hopefully becomes A&M's new permanent rival).

quote:
N.Carolina/Duke

The B1G would probably take both to get to 18. Both are AAU members (which the B1G loves) and top 20 in terms of overall research $$$ (which the B1G loves). SEC picks up NC State and then sits at 16 while waiting for the XBox 10 (which can be spelled without "D") to fall apart.


Thousands of years ago, cats were worshipped as gods. Cats have never forgotten this. -- Anonymous
agent-maroon
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AG
quote:
the deadman walking is not the ACC but rather Big12.

+1
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centexag06
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