Why are hospitals running out of PPE?

3,486 Views | 32 Replies | Last: 6 yr ago by Thomas Ford 91
Dad
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Is this only because China quit sending PPE and there is a supply shortage or is the disease causing hospitals to run through way more PPE than usual?

Are we producing any PPE here now? It seems like the mask shortage has been a known thing for months now.
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Crocs
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Paranoid *****es are stealing them from hospitals and hoarding them from your local Costco
AnScAggie
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I'm going to bet there is a government regulation or two that led to this problem in the first place.
Edit to add: why we are relying on China to produce them in the first place.
aeroag07
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Because they are replacing PPE rapidly so as not to spread the virus if it's possibly on the exterior of the PPE.
AggieMPH2005
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Also people aren't using it the proper way which is leading to a lot of waste
FrioAg 00
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There are also panicky people within the hospitals, misusing them where they aren't necessary.

It's a war zone out there everywhere fighting against ugly human behaviors from all directions.
Fairview
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Shouldn't a hospital be ready for pandemic and not rely on those items being available on the open market during an emergency? All experts have always said a pandemic was a matter of if not when so it's not like they'd go unused. They could also rotate the stock if there are issue with age.
Not a Bot
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Fairview said:

Shouldn't a hospital be ready for pandemic and not rely on those items being available on the open market during an emergency? All experts have always said a pandemic was a matter of if not when so it's not like they'd go unused. They could also rotate the stock if there are issue with age.

The two primary roles of hospital administrators are to decrease costs and increase revenue. Just like other industries, they will use historical use averages and add a small amount of safety when ordering inventory. The problem is that some hospitals are running through a month's worth of typical PPE in a week or less and supply chains are lagging.
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jagvocate
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Healthcare wasn't ready for this virus and we are still in early stages. No sense in crying over spilt milk.


EMY92
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I did see one hospital administrator say that they were going through as much PPE in a week as they normally would in 6 months.

Hard to stock up for that.
kyledr04
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Moxley said:

Fairview said:

Shouldn't a hospital be ready for pandemic and not rely on those items being available on the open market during an emergency? All experts have always said a pandemic was a matter of if not when so it's not like they'd go unused. They could also rotate the stock if there are issue with age.

The two primary roles of hospital administrators are to decrease costs and increase revenue. Just like other industries, they will use historical use averages and add a small amount of safety when ordering inventory. The problem is that some hospitals are running through a month's worth of typical PPE in a week or less and supply chains are lagging.


Yep, hospitals can be very cheap when it comes to supplies. They want the cheapest product with minimal back stock. Just like people at HEB or Amazon, they were used to getting what they whenever they needed it.

I hope this creates a little more motivation for strategic reserves once this is over. At the hospital and health system level and govt. The govt already has stockpiles of certain drugs.
bay fan
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S
I believe the government has a stock of PPE and vents and hasn't yet distributed. Hopefully they will get them out soon, several governors have been pretty clear of their need.
MaroonStain
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Theft
Scarcity complex
Hoarding
Waste from single-use disposal
Misuse
Etc

Humans...
MaroonStain
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bay fan said:

I believe the government has a stock of PPE and vents and hasn't yet distributed. Hopefully they will get them out soon, several governors have been pretty clear of their need.


Puerto Rico probably has crates and crates of PPE in warehouses.
bay fan
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S
Each with an accompanying bottle of water.
bay fan
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S
MaroonStain said:

Theft
Scarcity complex
Hoarding
Waste from single-use disposal
Misuse
Etc

Humans...
Don't you have to change it between patients unless working on a ward of everyone already infected? Like in an ER when you don't know what each person has?
MaroonStain
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bay fan said:

Each with an accompanying bottle of water.


Which are all being sold on the streets or traded for toilet paper.
swc93
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Kind of related to topic...

I order a wide arrange of goods for the company I work for; obviously supplies have been tight and delayed.

I spoke to one of our suppliers and the supply chains are still moving BUT the items are being heavily prioritized.

For example: Hand sanitizer, I don't order a bunch so based on my previous ordering patterns I am way down on the list so that companies that order hand san often can get filled first. Basically the idea is by using ordering frequency they can determine which customers rely and count on receiving certain supplies to maintain their business.

Basically if it has the words disinfectant, anti-microbial or sanitize...good luck.
WorkerBee
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Why before all this did people not have a years supply of TP? Why does Italy not have the ability to bury all their dead in a timely manner? Why does the government not have 700,000 ventilators? Why do most people not have a years worth of savings to weather a pandemic?

Why? Why? Why? You want to know why? Because having everything you need for a worse case scenario sounds all good and rosy until the bill comes in. To that I will add, what are everyday Americans willing to give up to insure that they have billions of dollars in inventory just sitting around for a worse case scenario.
jopatura
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Wasn't it Canada who required a full back stock of PPE and ventilators after SARS? They went back to drag it out of storage this week and realized it had all expired. At some point you have to balance hoarding with prepping.
Bondag
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AnScAggie said:

I'm going to bet there is a government regulation or two that led to this problem in the first place.
Edit to add: why we are relying on China to produce them in the first place.
3M has plants in the US running and making PPE.

Media panic has caused people to hoard these when it is not necessary. The masks are to prevent spread from sick people not to keep a healthy person from getting the virus.

If you wear a mask all day, but touch a doorknob a sick person coughed on without a mask then you defeat the purpose.
JW
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Increased use throughout the hospital system leads to shortages. We've also had quite a bit go "missing". People gonna people. We are now locking masks and gowns at night.
CowboyGirl
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Most disposable PPE is made from certain types of man-made blown fabric. For a variety of reasons, the production of this fabric is concentrated in China. It's not a terribly environmentally friendly process and China was willing to make it without regulating it to death.

The production of the PPE articles eventually concentrated close to the source of the fabric production (China) to save shipping costs and enable just in time production.

Sterilization, where required, is also a chemically-dependent process that most people don't want in their back yard. China was also more flexible on this and lots of sterilization started being done in China.

PPE is a Class I medical device regulated by the FDA. You can only produce these products in a plant that is FDA approved to make that specific product. The time to stand up a new PPE manufacturing facility is 18-24 months.

China's COVID outbreak led to the shutdown of most of their factories, which meant not only were companies not making PPE, China also was not making the necessary fabric to make them from. Even if you had a FDA-approved facility with capacity to make PPE, you can't get the raw materials on a large scale.

And all this is on top of pandemic-related factors like hoarding, increased use, and thin hospital inventories.
B-1 83
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I guess we should keep 1/2 a million state of the art ones ready at all times, and replace them every few years..... Tough call predicting when and how many.....
Ag In Ok
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Could the n95 masks be dried, frozen and reused?
Dad
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B-1 83 said:

I guess we should keep 1/2 a million state of the art ones ready at all times, and replace them every few years..... Tough call predicting when and how many.....

It might be better to have the gub'ment figure out how to keep manufacturing or essential items in this country so that we can easily increase production when China makes the next virus.
VaultingChemist
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Put the masks in tanning beds to disinfect them.
Brutal Puffin
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Super post, Cowboy Girl. Thanks for that explanation.
Thomas Ford 91
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Before this event, I think it was generally accepted that the CDC could manage an outbreak. They were the world's pandemic super cops. Look how they owned Ebola just a few years ago. And all pandemics before that. You don't need massive supply depots if the CDC is on the case.

But, something changed and the CDC can't even handle the basics anymore. They literally fumbled the kickoff. And now its too late to order all that stuff on Amazon.

Live and learn.
Ag In Ok
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So what if the country where patient 0 is denies you entry for several weeks?
Knucklesammich
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3M has a couple of blown film healthcare plants in the US (not sure of their output) and several respirator lines in several plants, one for healthcare and the rest industrial product plants. They've got a stated output of 400m per year in the US.



Thomas Ford 91
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Ag In Ok said:

So what if the country where patient 0 is denies you entry for several weeks?


As far as the US is concerned, Patient 0 was in Washington State and was under CDC control by January 18th.
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