Making ventilators work for multiple patients? Anyone trying/seeing this?

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AgED
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1:59p, 3/22/20
AG
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8136299/Doctors-turns-one-ventilator-nine-genius-DIY-mechanics.html
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BANA89
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2:02p, 3/22/20
AG
I've seen multiple articles about trying it. The typical concern is you you lose confidence on what it happening to a particular patient. Splitting in two mentioned that as a concern, I can't imagine it's not Multiplied significantly with more.
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Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag
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2:14p, 3/22/20
Dr. Kevin Menes utilized this following the Vegas shooting in his ER. It works, but it is certainly a last ditch effort. You need to appropriately pair patients based on lung compliance, tidal volume, oxygenation needs, etc. I don't think I'd feel comfortable using this on more than 2 patients though.
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Win At Life
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3:47p, 3/22/20
AG
So, wait a minute. He's a genius because he put a T-tap in a pipe? My plumber just did that half a dozens time in my bathroom yesterday.
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flashplayer
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4:00p, 3/22/20
AG
How can you know that each patient is getting the same tidal volume or pressures? That sounds like a really bad option.
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Zobel
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In reply to flashplayer • 4:12p, 3/22/20
AG
If you go 2/9 its better than only having it on one person.
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DeWrecking Crew
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In reply to flashplayer • 4:14p, 3/22/20
It can be done with proper sized ID tubing and lengths and math.
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Pulmcrit_ag
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4:15p, 3/22/20
https://emcrit.org/pulmcrit/split-ventilators/

Prepared if necessary but not ideal.
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Marcus Aurelius
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4:19p, 3/22/20
AG
Don't think it is going to come to that hopefully. Elon Musk and GM retooling for vents.
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flashplayer
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In reply to DeWrecking Crew • 4:20p, 3/22/20
AG
DeWrecking Crew said:
It can be done with proper sized ID tubing and lengths and math.


How does math take into account a variable (lung compliance) that changes by the minute/hour in each patient.

How does math compensate for one of the patients coughing into the line and changing the pressure/ volume delivery to the other patient(s).

Edit - I see it would be limited to pressure control modes but this still poses some challenges you don't want to have to deal with.
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combat wombat™
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5:43p, 3/22/20
AG
Well, she clearly states this is "to meet disater surge". Last resort when you are doen to one ventilator and multiple patients.

If I was one of the patients, I'd probably be happy to share.
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RikkiTikkaTagem
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5:48p, 3/22/20
AG
It worked in trauma patients because they're all young/healthy. It's much harder in a disease that's causing pneumonia and lung problems due to the issues mentioned by the posters above
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Mordred
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In reply to Marcus Aurelius • 7:16p, 3/23/20
AG
Marcus Aurelius said:
Don't think it is going to come to that hopefully. Elon Musk and GM retooling for vents.
Seems like Columbia is getting ready to implement this if needed: https://texags.com/forums/84/topics/3101736/replies/56238686
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Not a Bot
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7:36p, 3/23/20
AG
Vent settings are customized to the needs of the individual patient. It gets really challenging to change settings when there's more than one person connected, but you have to do what you have to do.
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