Great info. Thank you!

Help: I own 50% of a general partnership.

I am assuming that means I am "self-employed" and cannot apply until April 10th, as opposed to being a small business/sole proprietor. Is that right?

Can you get both an EIDL and PPP? Or does taking the PPP bar you from getting the EIDL which takes longer?

Pelayo said:

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Can you get both an EIDL and PPP? Or does taking the PPP bar you from getting the EIDL which takes longer?

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I've heard conflicting notes on this. I was on a webinar for Chase this afternoon and the question came up. The executive said they were awaiting guidance from the SBA on that topic.

Another expert said he expected them to offset or be set up so that you can't "double dip". For example, if you get the PPP to help with payroll, that you can't claim that amount on EIDL.

I was told by the local SBDC office that you can do both, but the $10K grant that comes with the EIDL would offset some of the salary offset of the PPP. Basically, it is lowering the chance of double-dipping the amount of the grant funds.

kingj3 said:

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Help: I own 50% of a general partnership.

I am assuming that means I am "self-employed" and cannot apply until April 10th, as opposed to being a small business/sole proprietor. Is that right?

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Hey King,

Do you have W-2 payroll expenses? I'm not an expert, but this first wave appears to be aimed at W-2 income.

BANA89 said:

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I was told by the local SBDC office that you can do both, but the $10K grant that comes with the EIDL would offset some of the salary offset of the PPP. Basically, it is lowering the chance of double-dipping the amount of the grant funds.

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Hope this is correct

Mnuchin just said in presser that if funds run out they will undoubtedly add more.

I see no reason why you cannot apply to both. Sort of different purposes. EIDL is longer term and mean to support the business in a recovery. PPP is to keep people employed for the next 60-90 days.

AgAttack said:

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Pelayo said:

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Can you get both an EIDL and PPP? Or does taking the PPP bar you from getting the EIDL which takes longer?

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I've heard conflicting notes on this. I was on a webinar for Chase this afternoon and the question came up. The executive said they were awaiting guidance from the SBA on that topic.

Another expert said he expected them to offset or be set up so that you can't "double dip". For example, if you get the PPP to help with payroll, that you can't claim that amount on EIDL.

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That's interesting. The SBA site for the PPP said you can apply for the EIDL for additional help above and beyond the payroll only component of the PPP. From that site:

Quote:

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Other Assistance

In response to the Coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic, small business owners in all U.S. states, Washington D.C., and territories are currently eligible to apply for disaster assistance.

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Per usual for .gov this has become a Charlie Foxtrot.

Hey All, want to answer some questions asked of me.

We're an insurance agency, we're applying for owner payroll, rent, utilities.

I'm a bit confused.

I'm a self-employed sole proprietor. I have one contract employee who earns enough that I send her a 1099.
I file a Schedule C.

I'd like to file for the PPP to cover my expense for her job.

Do I apply tomorrow or must I wait for the self-employed date of April 10? Anybody know?

Yeah I am confused too!
Perhaps someone may know what to do in this situation:

• Self Employed Sole Proprietor - Schedule C income flows to 1040 (I am married)
• Have two LLC companies
• One of the LLC has a W-2 employee

Can I submit an application tomorrow to cover W-2 and schedule C income? Or do I have to wait a week?

Since my spouse and I file jointly, I assume we can only use the W-2 employee and one of the LLCs as qualified payroll? Or can you file multiple PPP applications for different LLCs?

Interim Final Rule just posted.

https://www.sba.gov/funding-programs/loans/coronavirus-relief-options/paycheck-protection-program-ppp

Duckhook said:

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Interim Final Rule just posted.

https://www.sba.gov/funding-programs/loans/coronavirus-relief-options/paycheck-protection-program-ppp

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Awesome! Was just coming to post this. Thanks! Here's the PDF from the Treasury Website. It's in typical government legalese, but if you scroll down a few pages there are some helpful Q&As that address a few of the questions brought up on this board.

Although it's unclear if banks will be ready to accept applications tomorrow (Friday) since this just came out, this gives you a pretty good idea of what to prepare and what types of documents you'll need to apply.

Very confused on this. Is there a CPA that can weigh in on this:

Interim Final Rule Says
"You were in operation on February 15, 2020 and either had employees for whom you paid salaries and payroll taxes or paid independent contractors, as reported on a Form 1099-MISC."

All of our labor is from 1099 contractors.

Halconblack said:

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Very confused on this. Is there a CPA that can weigh in on this:

Interim Final Rule Says
"You were in operation on February 15, 2020 and either had employees for whom you paid salaries and payroll taxes or paid independent contractors, as reported on a Form 1099-MISC."

All of our labor is from 1099 contractors.

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i'm equally confused...on the one hand it says:

Do independent contractors count as employees for purposes of PPP loan calculations?

No, independent contractors have the ability to apply for a PPP loan on their own so they do not count for purposes of a borrower's PPP loan calculation.

but also says:

What qualifies as "payroll costs?"
Payroll costs consist of compensation to employees (whose principal place of residence is the United States) in the form of salary, wages, commissions, or similar compensation; cash tips or the equivalent (based on employer records of past tips or, in the absence of such records, a reasonable, good-faith employer estimate of such tips); payment for vacation, parental, family, medical, or sick leave; allowance for separation or dismissal; payment for the provision of employee benefits consisting of group health care coverage, including insurance premiums, and retirement; payment of state and local taxes assessed on compensation of employees; and for an independent contractor or sole proprietor, wage, commissions, income, or net earnings from self-employment or similar compensation.

including 1099/ICs would help my company quite a bit.

edit: ugh...brain is fried from reading the red tape...no dice on 1099s, it seems

Highway6 said:

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I'm a bit confused.

I'm a self-employed sole proprietor. I have one contract employee who earns enough that I send her a 1099.
I file a Schedule C.

I'd like to file for the PPP to cover my expense for her job.

Do I apply tomorrow or must I wait for the self-employed date of April 10? Anybody know?

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You wait until next Fri

So we have 2 llc's. One has an employee the other has none. I can file PPP for the one with an employee tomorrow and the other a week from now...we bank at BBVA which is a sba lender.

So how are these apps filed. Is there going to be 500 people with apps lined up at every bank or can you file online. Don't really care to be in a crowded bank right now.

mazzag said:

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So we have 2 llc's. One has an employee the other has none. I can file PPP for the one with an employee tomorrow and the other a week from now...we bank at BBVA which is a sba lender.

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I believe so. Although a couple of the big banks have said they won't be ready tomorrow (Friday) as they hoped since they got the Treasury guidance so late. Not sure about BBVA. Check their website.

brazagg said:

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So how are these apps filed. Is there going to be 500 people with apps lined up at every bank or can you file online. Don't really care to be in a crowded bank right now.

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Most banks I've seen are saying this will be an online only process.

Another weird part of this is I have to subtract federal withholding from the payroll. I use extra fed withholding to essentially pay quarterly taxes, so unfortunately that lowers my eligible payroll costs.

Got my first hint of a required docs list and this is bad news for the accounting community:

• 2019 1120/1120S/1065
• 2019 1040
• Last four quarters 941
• 1096
• Supporting Payroll Docs

Those first two are just a terrible ask right now. The IRS pushed the deadline for 1140 back to July 15 so those aren't even due yet the SBA just said they have to be submitted? Raise your hand if you extended your 1120/1120S/1065? About 2/3 of my clients have filed those. WTF does this have to do with a PAYROLL loan???

lockett93 said:

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Another weird part of this is I have to subtract federal withholding from the payroll. I use extra fed withholding to essentially pay quarterly taxes, so unfortunately that lowers my eligible payroll costs.

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That's not correct. You subtract SS and Medicare taxes from the payroll costs, not federal withholding. FIT is part of the employees gross payroll, not an expense to the business whereas the employer portion of SS and Medicare are. Effectively the federal government is not going to loan then forgive amounts that are revenue to the federal government.

LOYAL AG said:

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Got my first hint of a required docs list and this is bad news for the accounting community:

• 2019 1120/1120S/1065
• 2019 1040
• Last four quarters 941
• 1096
• Supporting Payroll Docs

Those first two are just a terrible ask right now. The IRS pushed the deadline for 1140 back to July 15 so those aren't even due yet the SBA just said they have to be submitted? Raise your hand if you extended your 1120/1120S/1065? About 2/3 of my clients have filed those. WTF does this have to do with a PAYROLL loan???

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Don't think I've ever actually quoted myself on here.

Anyway I'm reading the actual final rules from the SBA while we all sit with baited breath waiting for the banks to digest this document that came out pretty late yesterday. Just like .gov to tell us when the race ends but not where the finish line is. The underwriting is actually really lax, as I expected it to be. All that's actually required is to fill out the application, initial the attestations and provide the math behind your calculation of payroll costs. It even specifically says:

Quote:

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Q: What do lenders have to do in terms of loan underwriting?

A: Each Lender shall:

i. Confirm receipt of certifications on application.
ii. Confirm borrower had employer for how they paid salaries and payroll taxes around 2/15/20.
iii Confirm dollar amount of average monthly payroll for preceding calendar year.
iv. BSA stuff that's not important to borrower.

Each lender's underwriting obligation under the PPP is limited to the items above and reviewing the "Paycheck Protection Application Form". Borrowers must submit such documentation as is necessary to establish eligibility such as payroll processor records, payroll tax filings or form 1099-MISC, or income and expenses from a sole proprietor. For borrowers that do not have any such documentation, the borrower must provide other supporting documentation, such as bank records, sufficient to demonstrate the qualifying payroll amount.

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Now, what will YOUR bank do with that? I can't answer that. But that's what the rules say.

LOYAL AG said:

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Got my first hint of a required docs list and this is bad news for the accounting community:

• 2019 1120/1120S/1065
• 2019 1040
• Last four quarters 941
• 1096
• Supporting Payroll Docs

Those first two are just a terrible ask right now. The IRS pushed the deadline for 1140 back to July 15 so those aren't even due yet the SBA just said they have to be submitted? Raise your hand if you extended your 1120/1120S/1065? About 2/3 of my clients have filed those. WTF does this have to do with a PAYROLL loan???

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Yeah I'm waiting on a call back from my bank as I just called them and called them out on requiring all this extra crap that SBA and treasury are saying isn't required for the PPP! My accountant basically said if the bank is requiring more than just payroll information they aren't following the guidelines for this loan.

LOYAL AG said:

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lockett93 said:

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Another weird part of this is I have to subtract federal withholding from the payroll. I use extra fed withholding to essentially pay quarterly taxes, so unfortunately that lowers my eligible payroll costs.

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That's not correct. You subtract SS and Medicare taxes from the payroll costs, not federal withholding. FIT is part of the employees gross payroll, not an expense to the business whereas the employer portion of SS and Medicare are. Effectively the federal government is not going to loan then forgive amounts that are revenue to the federal government.

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ADP put out a calculator and the guidance also says al taxes paid or withheld under sec 21,22,24. ADP calculator subtracted withholdings.

anyone hear feeling optimistic that they'll see this cash? my business partner, who's an admitted pessimist, puts our chances of getting ~$1 million pretty low. not sure what he's basing that on (the govt, the banks, oversight, etc), but he's certainly acting as if this is not likely to come through...

You spend $1M on payroll over 60 days?

I've heard from a local bank VP that the SBA portal (the computer program) is likely not going to open at all today to accept applications.