Mental health/suicide rates vs COVID deaths

3,385 Views | 22 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by bay fan
P.U.T.U
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11:14a, 4/8/20
AG
A lot of you are infinitely more qualified to look into something like this and you think/hope the government is looking at something like this. Studies have shown during recessions and depressions the suicide rate goes up and goes down during economic growth. Common sense says the longer we are social distancing and allowing only "essential" work to be allowed the worse the economy is going to get. So at what point is the cure worse than the disease? What is the magic unemployment number before businesses are allowed to open back up? I don't know but something that needs to be examined.

As of right now I know more people personally that committed suicide than have COVID but that is probably a rarity.

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Dr.HeadCase
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11:20a, 4/8/20
AG
Mental health provider here. There's never going to be any way to possible answer the question of when one trumps the other. As an example, suicides were happening even prior to the current pandemic and rates had been going up even before this. You'd have to first figure out whether a suicide was caused by the current situation vs other factors which is virtually impossible. Way more precision than we actually have.

Look there's no doubt that the current efforts to slow the virus are also probably exacerbating mental health. It's an inevitable and unfortunate consequence. But the question you ask will never be able to be answered with any true scientific certainty. It's not a simple math formula.
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evestor1
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11:23a, 4/8/20
Quote:
Look there's no doubt that the current efforts to slow the virus are also probably exacerbating mental health. It's an inevitable and unfortunate consequence.


Very true - Understatement of the day!
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P.U.T.U
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11:28a, 4/8/20
AG
True, this is more of a conversation starter since there is obviously not a definitive answer. I have read some experts say we need to stay in lock down for roughly 18 months until we have a vaccine and business experts saying staying in lock down will put us in a depression like it did after WWI/Spanish Flu.
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FrecklesDad
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In reply to Dr.HeadCase • 11:28a, 4/8/20
AG
Once the financial effects of this crises are all known with the corresponding data overlaid with the suicide rates it can be shown and determined with statistical significance. Look at the rate of suicides for folks during the great depression, especially for the older folks prior to social security. This could have they same effect on people if it goes on for an extended period.
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TheOC16
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2:56p, 4/8/20
AG
On this topic, I think we need to consider more than just the economic impact on depression/suicide.

How is being forced to stay isolated at home without human interaction affecting those with severe depression?
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94DallasAG
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In reply to TheOC16 • 3:56p, 4/8/20
AG
TheOC16 said:
On this topic, I think we need to consider more than just the economic impact on depression/suicide.

How is being forced to stay isolated at home without human interaction affecting those with severe depression?


Add in to this the effect of support groups like AA being closed
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bay fan
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In reply to P.U.T.U • 4:35p, 4/8/20
S
P.U.T.U said:
True, this is more of a conversation starter since there is obviously not a definitive answer. I have read some experts say we need to stay in lock down for roughly 18 months until we have a vaccine and business experts saying staying in lock down will put us in a depression like it did after WWI/Spanish Flu.
18 months in shelter in place? Where did you see that and who is the "expert"? That's really a statement you need to validate as it's not anywhere with any credibility.
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P.U.T.U
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In reply to bay fan • 5:48p, 4/8/20
AG
Several medical doctors have said the only way out of this is for a vaccine to be released and social distancing should be practiced until then. Followed by vaccines take anywhere from 12-18 months.
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Necrosis
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5:53p, 4/8/20
AG
There will be a lot of collateral damage be it from the financial impacts or personal impacts from the deaths of loved ones. We will be here for them as well.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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Rapier108
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In reply to bay fan • 6:19p, 4/8/20
bay fan said:
P.U.T.U said:
True, this is more of a conversation starter since there is obviously not a definitive answer. I have read some experts say we need to stay in lock down for roughly 18 months until we have a vaccine and business experts saying staying in lock down will put us in a depression like it did after WWI/Spanish Flu.
18 months in shelter in place? Where did you see that and who is the "expert"? That's really a statement you need to validate as it's not anywhere with any credibility.
Obamacare Architect Zeke Emmanuel
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Aust Ag
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6:20p, 4/8/20
AG
Looking forward to hearing more from Dr. Head Case and Necrosis on this thread, as I think this is going to be a growing issue. All kinds of mental health issues to tackle as this goes on.

Well, maybe we can get the Mods to take off the Suicide part from the topic line. Clean it up a little.

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fightingfarmer09
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In reply to bay fan • 6:20p, 4/8/20
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/04/07/ezekiel_emanuel_us_must_stay_locked_down_for_12-18_months_until_theres_a_vaccine.html

Quote:

Realistically, COVID-19 will be here for the next 18 months or more. We will not be able to return to normalcy until we find a vaccine or effective medications. I know that's dreadful news to hear. How are people supposed to find work if this goes on in some form for a year and a half? Is all that economic pain worth trying to stop COVID-19? The truth is we have no choice.

If we prematurely end that physical distancing and the other measures keeping it at bay, deaths could skyrocket into the hundreds of thousands if not a million. We cannot return to normal until there's a vaccine. Conferences, concerts, sporting events, religious services, dinner in a restaurant, none of that will resume until we find a vaccine, a treatment, or a cure.

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Aust Ag
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In reply to fightingfarmer09 • 6:24p, 4/8/20
AG
"return to normal" is the key part of that. Nobody is expecting "normal" in '20, but we do expect things to be different and get on with our lives, with many more precautions and care.
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ElephantRider
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6:31p, 4/8/20
AG
So tired of hearing "is the cure worse than the disease?".
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AggieJ2002
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6:45p, 4/8/20
AG
Completely understand the mental health aspect of this and I'm sure there would be a huge mental health issue also with the converse of no lockdown with possibilty of an overwhelmed heath care system/more death. It's so hard to know if what has been/will be done is the right thing or not, and we'll never really know what the outcome is or would have been with different choices. It seems like all paths lead to a world of hurt for a lot of people that we are going to have to resolve to dig ourselves out of when this is all over.
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fightingfarmer09
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In reply to Aust Ag • 6:50p, 4/8/20
Aust Ag said:
"return to normal" is the key part of that. Nobody is expecting "normal" in '20, but we do expect things to be different and get on with our lives, with many more precautions and care.


Not trying to be rude, but did you read his quote? It's only snippet of the article.

Quote:


Conferences, concerts, sporting events, religious services, dinner in a restaurant, none of that will resume until we find a vaccine, a treatment, or a cure.



That is not doing things "different". That is shutting down entire industries and taking a crap on the First Amendment.
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Necrosis
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In reply to Aust Ag • 6:58p, 4/8/20
AG
Give me the value of a human life and I'll tell you the math.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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ham98
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In reply to Necrosis • 7:00p, 4/8/20
Necrosis said:
Give me the value of a human life and I'll tell you the math.
I would use the average cost to hire a competent hitman to kill someone who isn't high profile.
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Dr.HeadCase
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7:24p, 4/8/20
AG
I'm hesitant to get into it because I don't want it to be used as fodder for debates about 'the cure being worse than the disease'. My perspective is not to advocate for one position or another. But mental health will be another casualty of this event. It would be regardless of no matter what approach was taken.

There is not a lot of past data to go off of to really be able to predict the mental health toll this will have. No one has ever seen an event of this scale in our lifetime. There will surely be more data to come. Anecdotally, there will no doubt be an increase in things like health anxiety, depression, substance use, PTSD, suicide. Good luck treating the person with OCD-related fears of germs. Washing your hands 20 times a day isn't a behavior you probably want to discourage right now. There was an interesting study published here last month in a prestigious scientific journal about the psychological effects of quarantine based off of previous diseases. I think it is very difficult to disentangle what is driven by concerns about catching a deadly contagious disease and what is driven by the effects of quarantine/being unable to leave the house. They are interrelated and occurred at the same time.

But lots of the things that are robust predictors of poor mental health, like social isolation/loneliness, stress, financial problems, unemployment, uncertainty, are being exacerbated by the current situation. There has been evidence of increases in reports of domestic violence. Being house bound with someone who is repeatedly abusive, who has lost their job, and who is stressed is a bad combo. Additionally, it's been a real challenge for people addicted to substances to receive adequate treatment, in all likelihood making it easier for relapse (and many already do even when receiving adequate care). We should rightly be concerned about the mental health of the public at large. This will have a global effect.
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P.U.T.U
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8:28p, 4/8/20
AG
By the increase in alcohol sales you know there will be some substance abuse during and after this that will have to be dealt with. Seen a few articles like the below where it has increased 55%, crazy. Combine this and more people home and home abuse will probably increase, the added stress of cash flow won't help either. Going to be a tough time for a lot of people.

55% increase in alcohol sales
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lj801
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In reply to Dr.HeadCase • 8:38p, 4/8/20
Dr.HeadCase said:
I think it is very difficult to disentangle what is driven by concerns about catching a deadly contagious disease and what is driven by the effects of quarantine/being unable to leave the house. They are interrelated and occurred at the same time.
I think you also have a really great fear of giving it to a parent or grandparent. Dr. Birx told the story recently about how her Great Grandmother died from the Spanish Flu. She said her grandmother when she was a child came home with the it and passed it on to her mother who had just given birth and she then died. She said her grandmother lived with the guilt over that for the rest of her life. You want to protect them, but at the same time you are putting them in a bubble where they can't have that much needed interaction. Just a tragedy all around.
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BowSowy
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10:30p, 4/8/20
AG
I don't want to step on the toes of any of the qualified professionals here. But based on my own personal experience dealing with issues of depression, I would encourage anyone who thinks they may be dealing with depression to reach out to someone. It's probably easier to reach out to someone you don't know, whether that be a medical professional, a hotline, or any other anonymous (or semi-anonymous) person. It can be really beneficial to each out in a way that allows you to take your time to respond. You aren't alone in this, even if it feels you may be.
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bay fan
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In reply to fightingfarmer09 • 11:05p, 4/8/20
S
Thanks. That one guy nobody has ever heard of. We should totally shut down for 18 months. If that seems real to you I don't know what to say.
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