About that 25% cap on retail/restaurants...

8,852 Views | 42 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by nillbors likensoaxe
Joe Exotic
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12:14p, 5/1/20
AG
Went to a local family owned Mexican chain this morning and to hobby lobby.

Only noticed a few tables less than normal. Owner said that the 25% is based on fire occupancy, not tables. He said their building is rather large and his true table capacity is probably only 80% of normal.

Hobby Lobby was fairly packed. But their fire occupancy was 800 so 200 max allowed in. I don't think I've seen 200 in there on Christmas.


Both placed seemed to be humming along normally. Restaurant had paper menus, to go cups, and take out plastic ware. Plates normal. Full menu.

*post is not political, just highlight current mitigation and real world effects
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Dad
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12:19p, 5/1/20
AG
That is good to hear. I was imagining 75% of chairs being empty and thinking there is no way you can make enough money like that.
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Joe Exotic
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In reply to Dad • 12:21p, 5/1/20
AG
aggie-beta said:
That is good to hear. I was imagining 75% of chairs being empty and thinking there is no way you can make enough money like that.


Agreed. I guess there is a substantial difference between what a fire marshall says you can pack into a building and what a restaurant manager can comfortably seat.
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terradactylexpress
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In reply to Joe Exotic • 12:32p, 5/1/20
Makes sense when you think about restaurants that have bars full of people drinking while waiting on tables + staff etc
[img]http://www.unicron.us/tf1985/cartoon/dinobots2.jpg[/img]
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Joe Exotic
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In reply to terradactylexpress • 12:37p, 5/1/20
AG
The waiting area is a big one id imagine. One of our favorite steak places is opening today as well. They will be having you call when you get there and they will put you on a list for a table. Once it's ready they will call you and you come in from the parking lot. The owner said using this method is great for two reasons, it's safer to have everyone not bunched and waiting and less people inside allows him to use more allotted occupancy for tables.
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terradactylexpress
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12:45p, 5/1/20
Smart, very curious to see how places do this. I'm giving them a week or so just to figure out the best way to operate before I start going out
[img]http://www.unicron.us/tf1985/cartoon/dinobots2.jpg[/img]
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909Ag2006
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12:46p, 5/1/20
AG
Did people that were not seated at their tables have masks / face coverings on? We are going out to dinner tomorrow night. Wondering what to expect.
"They weren't raiding a Girl Scout troop looking for overdue library books."
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Joe Exotic
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In reply to 909Ag2006 • 12:53p, 5/1/20
AG
All workers had on masks. Some people had them on as they came in. Was surprised at the amount of elderly guests. One older man came in with a portable oxygen tank and no mask. Surprised he could carry it around with his giant brass balls.
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Joe Exotic
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In reply to 909Ag2006 • 12:55p, 5/1/20
AG
Hobby Lobby clientele was also much older but I would say mask use among them was probably 70%. Noticed lots of kids with mothers and had on masks as well.
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1:01p, 5/1/20
Prexys Moon
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1:06p, 5/1/20
went to breakfast at local whataburger and noticed the same. About half the tables blocked off.
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Rachel 98
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In reply to Joe Exotic • 1:15p, 5/1/20
AG
Where are you located? I am assuming not in an area with mandatory public masking.
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Joe Exotic
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In reply to Rachel 98 • 1:17p, 5/1/20
AG
I am in Texas. Masking is not mandatory here.
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Aust Ag
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In reply to [removed post] • 2:20p, 5/1/20
AG
SoupNazi2001 said:
This doesn't surprise me. I know lot of older folks who are less concerned than the younger ones.
My older relatives are all like this. In some ways, I sort of respect it...you know, "I've gotten this far, not going to change now". On the other hand, older folks doing that is what will cause the hospitalizations to spike...or worse. And potentially, blow it for everyone.
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fightingfarmer09
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In reply to 909Ag2006 • 2:45p, 5/1/20
Went to the local burger place.

No special changes only about half of the chairs stacked up in the corner. Saw some friends there from the farm down the road eating with about 8 people.

Probably 15-20 people eating at once. Probably 5 people at a time standing placing orders (carry out and dine in).

No masks anywhere. All ages there, kids and old folks.

But then again this place has been open through it all, no masks, walk in to go orders and people hanging out visiting.

No problems. Was great to be back!
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Sq 17
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In reply to [removed post] • 4:53p, 5/1/20
SoupNazi2001 said:
This doesn't surprise me. I know lot of older folks who are less concerned than the younger ones.


Medicare + Medicare supplemental insurance makes old people pretty cavalier about getting sick.
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JYDog90
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4:59p, 5/1/20
AG
I'm thinking I'd rather sit outside.
Formerly Willy Wonka
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Rachel 98
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In reply to Joe Exotic • 5:00p, 5/1/20
AG
Joe Exotic said:
I am in Texas. Masking is not mandatory here.
You must not be in the People's Republic of Austin....
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TAMC11
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5:01p, 5/1/20
AG
I have been curious if the 25% was relative to fire occupancy or actual seating occupancy. Is this just his interpretation or the actual intent behind the order I wonder?
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ham98
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In reply to TAMC11 • 5:03p, 5/1/20
TAMC11 said:
I have been curious if the 25% was relative to fire occupancy or actual seating occupancy. Is this just his interpretation or the actual intent behind the order I wonder?
I think people are going by fire occupancy
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CT75
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In reply to ham98 • 5:10p, 5/1/20
AG
ham98 said:
TAMC11 said:
I have been curious if the 25% was relative to fire occupancy or actual seating occupancy. Is this just his interpretation or the actual intent behind the order I wonder?
I think people are going by fire occupancy
Fire occupancy is probably the only 'occupancy' # the owner officially has. He may have chosen to seat less than that in the past...but I would imagine that is the only official 'counted' number. If it wasn't for fire codes an 'occupancy' number would not exist.
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zachsccr
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In reply to Rachel 98 • 5:11p, 5/1/20
AG
Rachel 98 said:
Joe Exotic said:
I am in Texas. Masking is not mandatory here.
You must not be in the People's Republic of Austin....


From Abbott's executive order:
" Individuals are encouraged to wear appropriate face coverings, but no jurisdiction can impose a civil or criminal penalty for failure to wear a face covering."
https://gov.texas.gov/uploads/files/press/EO-GA-18_expanded_reopening_of_services_COVID-19.pdf
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TXAggie2011
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In reply to zachsccr • 5:14p, 5/1/20
AG
zachsccr said:
Rachel 98 said:
Joe Exotic said:
I am in Texas. Masking is not mandatory here.
You must not be in the People's Republic of Austin....
From Abbott's executive order:
" Individuals are encouraged to wear appropriate face coverings, but no jurisdiction can impose a civil or criminal penalty for failure to wear a face covering."
https://gov.texas.gov/uploads/files/press/EO-GA-18_expanded_reopening_of_services_COVID-19.pdf
State governments love diffuse and localized government power until the power is being diffused and localized away from them...
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AggieLitigator
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5:19p, 5/1/20
Well, I guess we will know where we stand in 7-10 days
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Ragoo
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In reply to TXAggie2011 • 5:40p, 5/1/20
AG
TXAggie2011 said:
zachsccr said:
Rachel 98 said:
Joe Exotic said:
I am in Texas. Masking is not mandatory here.
You must not be in the People's Republic of Austin....
From Abbott's executive order:
" Individuals are encouraged to wear appropriate face coverings, but no jurisdiction can impose a civil or criminal penalty for failure to wear a face covering."
https://gov.texas.gov/uploads/files/press/EO-GA-18_expanded_reopening_of_services_COVID-19.pdf
State governments love diffuse and localized government power until the power is being diffused and localized away from them...
the governor is directly putting the power and responsibility in the hands of the individual, people are really against that?
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The_Fox
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In reply to Sq 17 • 6:57p, 5/1/20
Sq 17 said:
SoupNazi2001 said:
This doesn't surprise me. I know lot of older folks who are less concerned than the younger ones.


Medicare + Medicare supplemental insurance makes old people pretty cavalier about getting sick.
As opposed to younger people with great insurance? More likely, they are just not afraid of dying.
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dr_boogs
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In reply to TXAggie2011 • 7:03p, 5/1/20
AG
TXAggie2011 said:
zachsccr said:
Rachel 98 said:
Joe Exotic said:
I am in Texas. Masking is not mandatory here.
You must not be in the People's Republic of Austin....
From Abbott's executive order:
" Individuals are encouraged to wear appropriate face coverings, but no jurisdiction can impose a civil or criminal penalty for failure to wear a face covering."
https://gov.texas.gov/uploads/files/press/EO-GA-18_expanded_reopening_of_services_COVID-19.pdf
State governments love diffuse and localized government power until the power is being diffused and localized away from them...


I'm curious as to whether an employee of a private business or a public employee can be terminated for choosing to not wear a mask if the employer (public or private) mandates it.

Getting fired isn't the same thing as getting charged w a civil or criminal violation.
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Dad
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In reply to dr_boogs • 8:00p, 5/1/20
AG
dr_boogs said:
TXAggie2011 said:
zachsccr said:
Rachel 98 said:
Joe Exotic said:
I am in Texas. Masking is not mandatory here.
You must not be in the People's Republic of Austin....
From Abbott's executive order:
" Individuals are encouraged to wear appropriate face coverings, but no jurisdiction can impose a civil or criminal penalty for failure to wear a face covering."
https://gov.texas.gov/uploads/files/press/EO-GA-18_expanded_reopening_of_services_COVID-19.pdf
State governments love diffuse and localized government power until the power is being diffused and localized away from them...


I'm curious as to whether an employee of a private business or a public employee can be terminated for choosing to not wear a mask if the employer (public or private) mandates it.

Getting fired isn't the same thing as getting charged w a civil or criminal violation.

You can fire someone for just about any reason and that definitely sounds like a valid reason to fire someone.
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YouBet
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In reply to Dad • 8:03p, 5/1/20
AG
aggie-beta said:
dr_boogs said:
TXAggie2011 said:
zachsccr said:
Rachel 98 said:
Joe Exotic said:
I am in Texas. Masking is not mandatory here.
You must not be in the People's Republic of Austin....
From Abbott's executive order:
" Individuals are encouraged to wear appropriate face coverings, but no jurisdiction can impose a civil or criminal penalty for failure to wear a face covering."
https://gov.texas.gov/uploads/files/press/EO-GA-18_expanded_reopening_of_services_COVID-19.pdf
State governments love diffuse and localized government power until the power is being diffused and localized away from them...


I'm curious as to whether an employee of a private business or a public employee can be terminated for choosing to not wear a mask if the employer (public or private) mandates it.

Getting fired isn't the same thing as getting charged w a civil or criminal violation.

You can fire someone for just about any reason and that definitely sounds like a valid reason to fire someone.
You sure as sh^t can't at a large corporation unless you have a ton of documentation over a long period of time. Will also depend on much your legal department will want to fight the automatic lawsuit vs settling.
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Rachel 98
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In reply to Dad • 8:05p, 5/1/20
AG
aggie-beta said:
dr_boogs said:
TXAggie2011 said:
zachsccr said:
Rachel 98 said:
Joe Exotic said:
I am in Texas. Masking is not mandatory here.
You must not be in the People's Republic of Austin....
From Abbott's executive order:
" Individuals are encouraged to wear appropriate face coverings, but no jurisdiction can impose a civil or criminal penalty for failure to wear a face covering."
https://gov.texas.gov/uploads/files/press/EO-GA-18_expanded_reopening_of_services_COVID-19.pdf
State governments love diffuse and localized government power until the power is being diffused and localized away from them...


I'm curious as to whether an employee of a private business or a public employee can be terminated for choosing to not wear a mask if the employer (public or private) mandates it.

Getting fired isn't the same thing as getting charged w a civil or criminal violation.

You can fire someone for just about any reason and that definitely sounds like a valid reason to fire someone.


I work for the city government and I 100% would be fired if I refused to wear a mask while I'm in our building. Heck we have a UPS driver that delivers to our building multiple times per week who is no longer permitted to drive our route because he won't wear a mask for the 1-2 minutes he has to be inside while getting a signature.
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Ag_N_Houston
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In reply to YouBet • 8:22p, 5/1/20
AG
YouBet said:
aggie-beta said:


You can fire someone for just about any reason and that definitely sounds like a valid reason to fire someone.
You sure as sh^t can't at a large corporation unless you have a ton of documentation over a long period of time. Will also depend on much your legal department will want to fight the automatic lawsuit vs settling.
It depends what state you are in. It also depends on whether that employee signed a contract.
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dr_boogs
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8:40p, 5/1/20
AG
Great responses, but answers are all over the map. Wonder if employers have grounds to terminate for not following company policy. This comes up w concealed carry a lot. CC is legal in TX w a license but if your employer deems CC impermissible while on their property or working for them, you can be terminated if you choose to CC. And yet it is legal in the state of TX.

Private business owners have the right to set their policies, I'm curious about public employees of Texas when the governor says it's suggested to wear a mask but you can't be charged w a civil or criminal crime.

And BTW I work for A&M and our College/Dept in CS is mandating them and I comply. Not looking for a sword to fall on, genuinely interested in the law.
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YouBet
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In reply to Ag_N_Houston • 8:58p, 5/1/20
AG
Ag_N_Houston said:
YouBet said:
aggie-beta said:


You can fire someone for just about any reason and that definitely sounds like a valid reason to fire someone.
You sure as sh^t can't at a large corporation unless you have a ton of documentation over a long period of time. Will also depend on much your legal department will want to fight the automatic lawsuit vs settling.
It depends what state you are in. It also depends on whether that employee signed a contract.


I'm in Texas. Right to work state and it takes an act of god to get fired.
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AggieBiker
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In reply to YouBet • 10:42a, 5/2/20
AG
YouBet said:
Ag_N_Houston said:
YouBet said:
aggie-beta said:


You can fire someone for just about any reason and that definitely sounds like a valid reason to fire someone.
You sure as sh^t can't at a large corporation unless you have a ton of documentation over a long period of time. Will also depend on much your legal department will want to fight the automatic lawsuit vs settling.
It depends what state you are in. It also depends on whether that employee signed a contract.


I'm in Texas. Right to work state and it takes an act of god to get fired.
The reason a large company can't fire at will is because they have lawyers. They could manage it just as well as small companies if they didn't let their lawyers' risks fears control everything. The chance of being sued for wrongful termination of an individual (as opposed to a group or class) is just as high for a small company as a large company. It all depends on the individual.

It's natural to assume it would be harder to win a suit against a large company with its resources than a smaller company with limited resources but small business owners are willing to take the risks while large company lawyers are scared of every risk. Obviously, I have an issue with corporate lawyers.
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YouBet
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In reply to AggieBiker • 10:42a, 5/2/20
AG
AggieBiker said:
YouBet said:
Ag_N_Houston said:
YouBet said:
aggie-beta said:


You can fire someone for just about any reason and that definitely sounds like a valid reason to fire someone.
You sure as sh^t can't at a large corporation unless you have a ton of documentation over a long period of time. Will also depend on much your legal department will want to fight the automatic lawsuit vs settling.
It depends what state you are in. It also depends on whether that employee signed a contract.


I'm in Texas. Right to work state and it takes an act of god to get fired.
The reason a large company can't fire at will is because they have lawyers. They could manage it just as well as small companies if they didn't let their lawyers' risks fears control everything. The chance of being sued for wrongful termination of an individual (as opposed to a group or class) is just as high for a small company as a large company. It all depends on the individual.

It's natural to assume it would be harder to win a suit against a large company with its resources than a smaller company with limited resources but small business owners are willing to take the risks while large company lawyers are scared of every risk. Obviously, I have an issue with corporate lawyers.
Agreed.
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