Very cool!

So, if you could have one test...which is more important: Test for COVID or test for anti-bodies?

will25u said:

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DARPA has a 'game-changer' coronavirus test that's awaiting emergency approval

Quote:

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a coronavirus test that can identify people before they come infectious

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Because people are spreading the disease before they show any symptoms or are completely asymptomatic, then this would really be a game-changer.

Again. No one is saying that you should only test someone one time.


Effective testing programs test high contact individuals with almost daily frequency.

No one gives a **** if someone isolated in their house test positive or not. You want to know if a bus driver, a MD, a cop, test positive today so you can notify the people that they had contact with yesterday and the day before, so they can isolate or get tested.

You're talking about something from a post-fact data gathering perspective.

Testing and tracing allows you to affect the future of spread, by testing the contacts of someone who is positive to identify and quarantine contacts before they may even develop symptoms.

Duncan Idaho said:

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Again. No one is saying that you should only test someone one time.


Effective testing programs test high contact individuals with almost daily frequency.

No one gives a **** if someone isolated in their house test positive or not. You want to know if a bus driver, a MD, a cop, test positive today so you can notify the people that they had contact with yesterday and the day before, so they can isolate or get tested.

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And how much does a test cost? What would be the cost of testing every first responder on a near weekly basis?

(To be clear, it is desirable to have both tests....I am just posing the hypothetical of having to choose between the two.)

Ideally first resposnders would be tested on a daily basis, not weekly.


No doubt it would be expensive. But it really isnt an option if you want to have a fully open economy with an engaged consumer base.

If the projections of 100,00-300,000 new cases a day are to be believed, you can open every business but consumers wont come. Especially if immunity doesnt prove to be durable.

I wonder what the answer would be I'd you asked ballerstaff or other infected posters if they would trade a night at the chicken or III forks for another round of Covid-19.

Duncan Idaho said:

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Ideally first resposnders would be tested on a daily basis, not weekly.


No doubt it would be expensive. But it really isnt an option if you want to have a fully open economy with an engaged consumer base.

If the projections of 100,00-300,000 new cases a day are to be believed, you can open every business but consumers wont come. Especially if immunity doesnt prove to be durable.

I wonder what the answer would be I'd you asked ballerstaff or other infected posters if they would trade a night at the chicken or III forks for another round of Covid-19.

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A night at the Chicken would no doubt fare poorly in that poll. But for a ton of people the choice is not the overly benign outing to the Chicken but rather it is financial ruin that is in play.

On your consumer confidence point: Are you seriously arguing (essentially) that we would be keeping businesses shuttered for their own good? How could you possibly know their situations better than they do?

I've never said that we shouldn't open.

I have been adamant that we need substantial improvements in testing to prevent 100,000's of deaths as we open.

I've never bought into the false choice of a)open up everything now while saying **** your testing and **** your social distancing.

Or
B) keep everything locked down forever.


I have been in favor of the third choice which was never considered because it called for leadership.

C)Spend the time that we so dearly paid for during lock down to launch a focused national effort on building testing and tracing capabilities. While shifting the culture to support wearing of masks and social distancing.

Talk to me about these tracing capabilities. I'd like to hear exactly how that would be executed.

I've heard some rants about government monitoring of cell phones. That was one proposal.

You haven't seen any rants about using cell data. You have seen rants against using it.

While cell data wide be the easiest, it has been done effectively but much more expensively with human operators and calling people and places.

Caleb12 said:

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The government already monitors our cell phones. Big data has been there. Let's use it for our advantage for once.

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That's not entirely true. At least not at the scale or organized the way you are talking about. They may have capability and technology, but that's not the same as application. And yes I am fully aware of biga data and its applications, specifically in marketing. I use it.

You are talking about something completely different than they do now. These kinds of things never go away. Never. Giving the government permission to legally and actively track people and who they associate with in database form will never go away if you let them do it. And I'm sorry but I am not comfortable with that. At all. And I find it pretty disturbing that so many people would be willing to give the government that kind of power.

Duncan Idaho said:

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If the projections of 100,00-300,000 new cases a day are to be believed, you can open every business but consumers wont come. Especially if immunity doesnt prove to be durable.

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I have seen you say this elsewhere. Where did you get this "100,00-300,000 new cases a day" projection from? I've never seen this anywhere.

Never mind on the question above, I found an article about the CDC report. I suppose that is what you are referencing. I will say I think that is a long reach from what we see happening currently. If it happens, I believe there will be a quick reversal by most states.

agsalaska said:

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Caleb12 said:

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The government already monitors our cell phones. Big data has been there. Let's use it for our advantage for once.

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That's not entirely true. At least not at the scale or organized the way you are talking about. They may have capability and technology, but that's not the same as application. And yes I am fully aware of biga data and its applications, specifically in marketing. I use it.

You are talking about something completely different than they do now. These kinds of things never go away. Never. Giving the government permission to legally and actively track people and who they associate with in database form will never go away if you let them do it. And I'm sorry but I am not comfortable with that. At all. And I find it pretty disturbing that so many people would be willing to give the government that kind of power.

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They've had the power and applied it legally since the Patriot Act. Really the only question is if you think this will sway public opinion in favor of them using it publicly more often, or only still use it in a clandestine fashion for special cases (read: anything they can possibly lump under terrorism/homeland security).

And personally I'm with you -- even knowing the above I still don't like it being used publicly for this reason.

Proposition Joe said:

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agsalaska said:

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Caleb12 said:

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The government already monitors our cell phones. Big data has been there. Let's use it for our advantage for once.

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That's not entirely true. At least not at the scale or organized the way you are talking about. They may have capability and technology, but that's not the same as application. And yes I am fully aware of biga data and its applications, specifically in marketing. I use it.

You are talking about something completely different than they do now. These kinds of things never go away. Never. Giving the government permission to legally and actively track people and who they associate with in database form will never go away if you let them do it. And I'm sorry but I am not comfortable with that. At all. And I find it pretty disturbing that so many people would be willing to give the government that kind of power.

---

They've had the power and applied it legally since the Patriot Act. Really the only question is if you think this will sway public opinion in favor of them using it publicly more often, or only still use it in a clandestine fashion for special cases (read: anything they can possibly lump under terrorism/homeland security).

And personally I'm with you -- even knowing the above I still don't like it being used publicly for this reason.

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Im not going to debate that with you. But even if that is true I am not OK with it being applied here. In fact the Patriot Act is a good example of powers never going away.

agsalaska said:

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Proposition Joe said:

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agsalaska said:

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Caleb12 said:

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The government already monitors our cell phones. Big data has been there. Let's use it for our advantage for once.

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That's not entirely true. At least not at the scale or organized the way you are talking about. They may have capability and technology, but that's not the same as application. And yes I am fully aware of biga data and its applications, specifically in marketing. I use it.

You are talking about something completely different than they do now. These kinds of things never go away. Never. Giving the government permission to legally and actively track people and who they associate with in database form will never go away if you let them do it. And I'm sorry but I am not comfortable with that. At all. And I find it pretty disturbing that so many people would be willing to give the government that kind of power.

---

They've had the power and applied it legally since the Patriot Act. Really the only question is if you think this will sway public opinion in favor of them using it publicly more often, or only still use it in a clandestine fashion for special cases (read: anything they can possibly lump under terrorism/homeland security).

And personally I'm with you -- even knowing the above I still don't like it being used publicly for this reason.

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Im not going to debate that with you. But even if that is true I am not OK with it being applied here. In fact the Patriot Act is a good example of powers never going away.

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I agree.

Caleb12 said:

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The government already monitors our cell phones. Big data has been there. Let's use it for our advantage for once.

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Technically we are a member of the "Five Eyes" groups that allows other government entities to spy on our citizens in exchange for us spying on their citizens. The data is exchanged and allows them to bypass all checks and balances.

It is what Snowden brought to light.

ANYTHING that moves in a direction other than dismantling this infrastructure is unconstitutional. They will never give up powers granted to them, even in the worst crisis.