ICYMI: US Fatalities down 69% since April 21st

7,911 Views | 45 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by agforlife97
Keegan99
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AG


On April 21st, the rolling 7-day average reached its peak at 2210+. On May 17th, it was 1450+. As of yesterday it was 680+, the lowest point since March 31st.

And it continues to plummet.

The decline will slow a bit as we enter a long tail, but in less than two months we should be under 200 fatalities per day.


(Yes, there is noise in the data, as officials report old deaths - for example, Houston reporting 7 deaths yesterday, only 1 of which was in the last 10+ days. The actual number that perished in the last week is less than the trendline.)
czechy91
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AG
That's a promising chart but I don't see how you jump to the conclusion that we are in a long tail and will be under 200+ fatalities per day. It's obvious that the medical community is getting better at treating COVID-19 and perhaps a portion of the most vulnerable in our community have succumbed to the disease but I don't see how you can say we are in a long tail suggesting this is petering out that in light of the increased #'s as America continues to open up. By looking at that trend you have to remember that past performance is no guarantee of future results especially since the early portion was skewed by the deaths in NYC and was curbed by hte drastic measures in March through May. I hope you are correct but there are way too many unknowns variables and we are a long way away from herd immunity.
ORAggieFan
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I agree things improving, but the graph looks much different removing NY Metro. Most states are more flat (which isn't necessarily bad). The key really is going to be as the positive tests spike, like in TX and what happens. An interesting piece of info from FL was the median age of those positive dropped from 65 two months ago down to 37 today, which will affect deaths as well. Lack of testing early on really makes it hard for us to know how we're doing now as positives may uptick in areas. Rise in positive rates along with total positives is not good news though.
cone
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problem being we are not doing sentinel testing

we're still reacting to symptoms

if sentinel testing is being required, it's by businesses either on return to work or after a positive case on premises

which always puzzled me - most behavior compliance is run through business mandates. why not continue to use those businesses as a lever for this bug?
HotardAg07
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AG
1. The deaths data is reflecting infections that happened a month ago, before major re-openings. As you said, there is even a lag in the reporting. Only a couple states correct their deaths data to "day of death", NY is one of them.

2. I don't know how you can say definitively that we will be under 200 deaths per day soon, given the aforementioned fact that this is a backwards-looking statistic and the fact that the virus is clearly growing in some areas that did not have early outbreaks.

Sorry to be personal, but I remember when you definitively said that we were well past the peak of the virus and would have no more than 60,000 deaths total, when literally the 3 days prior to your statement had been the 3 highest days of deaths in the country. I don't know exactly what's going to happen, but as a math major I would hope that you could analyze things with a little bit of uncertainty. I like the way that https://covid19-projections.com/ shows the cone of possibilities.

3. Our "rapid" decline is slower than most other developed countries who have encountered the virus, but thankfully it is steady. Hoping that our treatment and prevention improvements offset increasing cases in some areas, but also worried that so many people are declaring this over that they are doing obviously dumb things that will spread the virus, not just to young healthy people but also to the vulnerable.

This is a really cool graphic by the FT that shows how the burden of death of CV is shifting.


4. We are almost certainly under-counting death (one writeup: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/coronavirus-deaths/). The golden standard for death reconciliation is changes in all-cause death versus historical norms. Unfortunately, this data is not updated so quickly so the latest information we have for the US is backdated to May 9. That shows a similar decline from the peak.
Keegan99
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AG
There are no "increased numbers". You cannot compare case counts over time.

The only number of sequential value is fatalities, and that is on a predictable downward trend.

The actual downward trend is steeper, as mentioned in the OP. CDC actually has date of death data, the yellow line in the graph below.


Keegan99
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AG
I believed the fools at IHME. Not making that mistake again.
Beat40
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For the sake of the argument - deaths lag, so as hospitalization and cases were going down, it would make sense for deaths to go down too.

With cases and hospitlizations increasing, shouldn't we begin to see deaths increase again in a month or so? Albeit the demographic is different this time around so the increase in deaths may not be as significant was it was in Mar/Apr/May.

Logically, if hospitalizations continue to increase, I just don't see how deaths don't rise again, even if it is only slightly.
ORAggieFan
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Age of those getting it and advances in treatments.
Beat40
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ORAggieFan said:

Age of those getting it and advances in treatments.


I did acknowledge the demographics are different this time around and I agree on treatments. I expect to see an increase in deaths, but I expect it to be much slower this time around and likely not reach the levels of April/early May.

I am very pumped deaths are on a downward trend and am hoping in about a month or month and a half the deaths per day only marginally changes. That would really confirm the demographic risked if that were to happen.
PJYoung
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AG
Beginning with Easter week (April 19th-25th).

Daily average deaths in the US in the 8 weeks since Easter:

2,143.57
1,884.00
1,799.14
1,384.00
1,224.29
983.00
899.57
775.86

So far this week: 603.50
DCAggie13y
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Beat40 said:

For the sake of the argument - deaths lag, so as hospitalization and cases were going down, it would make sense for deaths to go down too.

With cases and hospitlizations increasing, shouldn't we begin to see deaths increase again in a month or so? Albeit the demographic is different this time around so the increase in deaths may not be as significant was it was in Mar/Apr/May.

Logically, if hospitalizations continue to increase, I just don't see how deaths don't rise again, even if it is only slightly.


Cases and hospitalizations in the northeast and Mid-Atlantic are way down. Looking at the NYT tracker the total number of cases is flat not increasing. Not sure about hospitalizations nationally. Is that increasing or is it flat like the cases?
dreyOO
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If we were to take out the nursing home deaths (presumably because that's a separate population that should be studied on its own), I would love to see that graph.
Keegan99
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AG
Well you would lose 55%+ of all fatalities. It would be a drastically different picture.
dreyOO
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Exactly. Not a criticism of you. Just bugs me that we have two very different populations and that they are smashed together as if it's homogeneous.
Keegan99
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AG
Duncan Idaho
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Keegan99 said:



Ltc/non-LTC? Are people shooting it?
Keegan99
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AG
Long-Term-Care
dreyOO
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Now I feel very lazy. Thank you!
Duncan Idaho
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Keegan99 said:

Long-Term-Care

It was an attempt to add some levity
Big Shoulders
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Duncan Idaho said:

Keegan99 said:

Long-Term-Care

It was an attempt to add some levity
I appreciated it.
FriscoKid
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AG
It's going to be down even more after the President Trump rally. All those people not wearing any masks or social distancing. I think this is just about over at this point. It's time to let the virus run its course and do what viruses do. Having a large gathering inside an arena is the first step in returning to normal. It's past time to do this.
Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag
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FriscoKid said:

I think this is just about over at this point.
Unfortunately for us in Texas, it is only just starting. The several hospitals I currently work at are now filled with COVID patients in their ERs, which was never the case previously. We are now required to wear N95s at all times while at work, due to how bad conditions have got. Patients are waiting 5-6 hours to have labs drawn in the ER because we have no beds to place patients in. We have run out of high-flow nasal cannulas at one location. We have COVID patients sitting in hallways. COVID patients sitting in waiting rooms. We have quickly gone from just young and healthy COVID patients, to elderly COVID patients mixed in. 2 weeks ago, I was still seeing 1 every other shift. I am now seeing 7-8 every shift, and that number continues to increase.

This is not over by a long shot, and will get much worse if you live in Texas. Death rates lag behind new cases. Expect a significant increase in deaths 1-2 weeks from now.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
cc_ag92
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AG
Thank you for sharing your situation.
Do you mind sharing which part of Texas you're in? I know it doesn't really matter because it's getting bad all over, but I'm trying to give my parents info about our area because their friends keep telling them it's over while I keep reminding them it's not. It's helpful when I can give them information from local health professionals. We're in Dallas area.
Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag
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San Antonio area


No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
aginlakeway
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AG
What do you think caused the spike which seems to have started a few weeks ago?

I'm reading a majority are Hispanic. Is that accurate?
Pasquale Liucci
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I would like to understand if there is a distinction between hospitalized with COVID and hospitalized for COVID
Aust Ag
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Why are so many Hospitalized but not in ICU or ventilator? They've just there with flu symptoms, high temperature, etc?
aginlakeway
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Aust Ag said:

Why are so many Hospitalized but not in ICU or ventilator? They've just there with flu symptoms, high temperature, etc?

That is a VERY fair question when looking at that chart.
Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag
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Aust Ag said:

Why are so many Hospitalized but not in ICU or ventilator? They've just there with flu symptoms, high temperature, etc?
Hypoxia is the primary reason for hospitalization. Not everyone that has low oxygen levels requires a ventilator or ICU level care. Many of those hospitalized will never require higher level care; however, many will eventually progress to requiring mechanical ventilation, as several of my recent patients already have.

EDIT: Also, I think you are confusing ER visits for hospitalization. Hospitalization means they were admitted into the hospital, rather than just seen in the ER.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Pasquale Liucci
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Lester Freamon said:

I would like to understand if there is a distinction between hospitalized with COVID and hospitalized for COVID


And the reason why I ask is this. Even as far back as March/April we were getting reports of people in ER for non COVID who were all of a sudden diagnosed upon Chest x Ray, etc. The example I think of is Marcus Aurelius having a guy in for a broken arm from a car crash who was otherwise perfectly healthy and had interstitial bilateral pneumonia and telltale ground glass opacities that were observed upon x Ray for the broken bone
Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag
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aginlakeway said:

What do you think caused the spike which seems to have started a few weeks ago?

I'm reading a majority are Hispanic. Is that accurate?
Likely opening back up, coupled with lack of mask usage, and people crowding into bars. Of all my positive or presumptive positive young patients, every single one of them reported going to a bar or a dance club within 1-2 weeks of seeing me in the ER. Every single one. Now of the older individuals I've seen recently, most live with younger family members at home, or have caregivers.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
aginlakeway
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AG
Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag said:

aginlakeway said:

What do you think caused the spike which seems to have started a few weeks ago?

I'm reading a majority are Hispanic. Is that accurate?
Likely opening back up, coupled with lack of mask usage, and people crowding into bars. Of all my positive or presumptive positive young patients, every single one of them reported going to a bar or a dance club within 1-2 weeks of seeing me in the ER. Every single one. Now of the older individuals I've seen recently, most live with younger family members at home, or have caregivers.
VERY informative. Thanks!
corleoneAg99
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AG
Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag said:

aginlakeway said:

What do you think caused the spike which seems to have started a few weeks ago?

I'm reading a majority are Hispanic. Is that accurate?
Likely opening back up, coupled with lack of mask usage, and people crowding into bars. Of all my positive or presumptive positive young patients, every single one of them reported going to a bar or a dance club within 1-2 weeks of seeing me in the ER. Every single one. Now of the older individuals I've seen recently, most live with younger family members at home, or have caregivers.


Attending protests?
corleoneAg99
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AG
Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag said:

FriscoKid said:

I think this is just about over at this point.
Unfortunately for us in Texas, it is only just starting. The several hospitals I currently work at are now filled with COVID patients in their ERs, which was never the case previously. We are now required to wear N95s at all times while at work, due to how bad conditions have got. Patients are waiting 5-6 hours to have labs drawn in the ER because we have no beds to place patients in. We have run out of high-flow nasal cannulas at one location. We have COVID patients sitting in hallways. COVID patients sitting in waiting rooms. We have quickly gone from just young and healthy COVID patients, to elderly COVID patients mixed in. 2 weeks ago, I was still seeing 1 every other shift. I am now seeing 7-8 every shift, and that number continues to increase.

This is not over by a long shot, and will get much worse if you live in Texas. Death rates lag behind new cases. Expect a significant increase in deaths 1-2 weeks from now.


How does your projection of increased deaths square with reports of far better treatments that prevent death? Are you saying that you aren't experience that in your hospital(s) or just that pure volume alone will cause deaths to drastically increase regardless of gains made in treatment?
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