I guess i'm old school in the sense that if you lie to me about this what else did you lie to me about?

When you admit you lied no matter if it was noble or not your word can't be trusted.

plus it destroys the permission / shame structure

if they had just said:

Quote:

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we believe masks are important to slow overall spread, but professionally manufactured masks should be reserved to health care professionals at this time due to supply and also because they are going to be around the virus more. improvised masks are better than nothing and we recommend all citizens were some form of masking in public as a low cost method to reduce spread.

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frame the whole issue in the same light as WWII victory gardens

Well he's right. There would have been panic buying like there was with toilet paper, paper towels, hand sanitizer, household cleaners etc...

Problem is it leads to people making up their mind initially that masks don't work and it is very hard to convince most humans to change their mind on really anything it seems.

I remember them stating this very early on in March in a press conference. They gave a twofold answer from what I recall-that they needed to make sure ppe and masks get to first responders before the public at large bought it all out; secondly, they were afraid that people not used to wearing a mask would touch their face and nose area too much.

This is just news outlets doing what they do best: create outrage.

I'm definitely not trying to goal tend for them, but back then (seems like a year ago now) touching your face was thought of a much more serious problem than it turns out to be now.

It's only half the story.

The other half that constantly gets left out is that at that time back in March, the thinking was masks would only be beneficial for the sick, as it wasn't clear then the role of asymptomatic spreaders. With most viruses including SARS-CoV-1 back in the early 2000s, only people with symptoms (the sick) could spread. That's why SARS-CoV-1 went away quickly, because you could identify sick people, quarantine them, and you effectively stopped the spread.

Thus if you believe that masks only helped sick people from spreading the virus, and sick people should be at home quarantined and not be out in public, then at that time, masks weren't viewed as needed for the general population. This, combined with the need to reserve PPE for healthcare workers is why the original recommendation was made.

It was only later that month data began to come in of the role of asymptomatic spreaders in infecting other people and the view on masks changed, and thus recommendations changed.

I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand and it was not a "lie" to the public. Recommendations were made based on what we previously knew form KNOWN viruses like SARS-COV-1 and MERS, and then reconsidered when new data came in.

Frozen Concoction said:

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Wait, maybe I'm behind on the flurry of changing information, but I thought the current thinking was that asymptomatic spread was nearly a non-factor in overall disease transmission.

http://www.emro.who.int/health-topics/corona-virus/transmission-of-covid-19-by-asymptomatic-cases.html

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That is the way the WHO stated it a few weeks ago. But the next day they retracted the statement. But it was very vague. Again, what can you trust in all of this. Sounds like asymptomatic carriers spread it less than we thought but to what extent, per experts, we still do not know.

It's almost as if...this was multifaceted like everything else in the world.

1. PPE preservation for health care workers
2. Public had not training with mask wearing, and by what I've seen, they were right.
3. Prior studies and data with other viruses did not necessitate it.

They made a call and we can all say they lied or were wrong, but nobody knew much about this and had to adjust as they went. Just like we do in real life.

tbh we all saw what the American people did with TP

I honestly thought that this was common knowledge. It was an obvious lie from the beginning.

And some people wonder why most people don't trust the government. They have your interests in mind as long as theirs are taken care of first.

Frozen Concoction said:

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Wait, maybe I'm behind on the flurry of changing information, but I thought the current thinking was that asymptomatic spread was nearly a non-factor in overall disease transmission.

http://www.emro.who.int/health-topics/corona-virus/transmission-of-covid-19-by-asymptomatic-cases.html

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There is a lot of confusion about what is truly "asymptomatic" and how we are using the word.

We, at times, have been using the word interchangeably with "pre-symptomatic", meaning prior to you showing signs/experiencing symptoms. There is certainly "pre-symptomatic" spread where viral titer *appears* to be highest before onset of symptoms and spreading can occur. However, some (including me) have been calling this "asymptomatic" spreading. Pre-symptomatic spreading is what makes this virus so difficult to contain because you are spreading the virus before you know you are sick and may have it. Again, in complete contrast to SARS-CoV-1 when you only spread the virus after beginning to show/feel symptoms.

There is more debate about true asymptomatic spreading, which means individuals who NEVER had/experienced symptoms over the entire course of their infection period with SARS-CoV-2. This is no doubt what the WHO statement you linked above is talking about. This has to do again with your viral titer or load and how much virus is actually replicating inside of you and if it is even high enough for you to spread it to others. Unfortunately this is incredibly hard to test. We just don't know how many true asymptomatic individuals there are, because they never have reason to go get tested! I think we will find out more with increased testing and many places testing everyone before they return to work or college teams prior to returning to practice.

In regards to the WHO statement, many read the statement and assumed asymtomatic = pre-symtomatic, when we know pre-symptomatic or those that experience incredibly mild symptoms, like just lose of taste/smell, gastrointestinal issues and not something recognizable like a fever or chills certainly do contribute to transmission.

Was the WHO messaging clear? Absolutely not and they realized the mistake they made only after they issued the linked release/statement. They have been incredibly bad with messaging during this whole crisis. They need to do better.

Hopefully what I have described is clear.