And you'd think covid was non-existent. Everyone crowding. Less 1/4 wearing masks in stores etc. This thing is skyrocketing. Guess the plan is to take the collateral damage. 1800 new cases in Bama alone yesterday.
Been in Florida at beach for last week...........
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Yeah, we are screwed.
We just pulled into Crested Butte and this place is PACKED
FrioAg 00 said:
I believe that you are correct. It never should have been a top down decision, not in America. The government simply cannot enforce compliance with their illegal mandates.
The collective citizenry has decided that the cost is not worth whatever risk draconian measures would reduce. Those ideas were weighed and measured, and they have been mostly rejected.
Anyone who wishes to implement whatever quarantine measures are best for them can do so freely - they just cannot impose their restrictions on other free people.
The good news is that within a few months everyone will have been exposed to it and the results will be what they are. The early returns are that the results will be much less than what early predictors said. And once everyone has been exposed for their first time, the odds of the disease having much impact nationally are very low.
I've heard a lot about personal choice and just dealing with it.
I always wonder how people would have felt if we needed a national effort to I dunno - bear the nazis - and someone said my personal choice is to sit the war out - nazis are fake news.
I'm pretty sure they would be called a traitors
And for those who think this virus is not a foreign enemy. What happens when other country's get this under control and we never do.
They win.
We lose.
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It's pretty rich that posters, offering observations from their own beach vacations, are complaining that others are making their own decisions about to what degree they will restrict themselves
There are plenty who think the whole beach should be closed - should they be allowed to cancel your vacation? What if they called you a moron for doing it?
The point stands. The decisions are made individually, and no matter what papers hang on your wall you don't get to make all the decisions for other people.
There are plenty who think the whole beach should be closed - should they be allowed to cancel your vacation? What if they called you a moron for doing it?
The point stands. The decisions are made individually, and no matter what papers hang on your wall you don't get to make all the decisions for other people.
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You are comparing this to fighting nazis?
What I am now worried about is that this was just a trial balloon for whoever started it to observe how the US handled it.
Interesting you'd use the Nazis. Quite a few would say that the only ones acting like the Nazis are all the governors, mayors and other "authorities" trying to make rules for the rest of us. This is not an end of the world pandemic. Stop treating it that way.AggieYankee1 said:FrioAg 00 said:
I believe that you are correct. It never should have been a top down decision, not in America. The government simply cannot enforce compliance with their illegal mandates.
The collective citizenry has decided that the cost is not worth whatever risk draconian measures would reduce. Those ideas were weighed and measured, and they have been mostly rejected.
Anyone who wishes to implement whatever quarantine measures are best for them can do so freely - they just cannot impose their restrictions on other free people.
The good news is that within a few months everyone will have been exposed to it and the results will be what they are. The early returns are that the results will be much less than what early predictors said. And once everyone has been exposed for their first time, the odds of the disease having much impact nationally are very low.
I've heard a lot about personal choice and just dealing with it.
I always wonder how people would have felt if we needed a national effort to I dunno - bear the nazis - and someone said my personal choice is to sit the war out - nazis are fake news.
I'm pretty sure they would be called a traitors
And for those who think this virus is not a foreign enemy. What happens when other country's get this under control and we never do.
They win.
We lose.
Just spent last week in Rosemary Beach same observation. Restaurants packed, maybe half the staff wearing masks. Whole lot of don't give a **** in Florida/Bama. Louisiana actually did a pretty good job, which leaves a dirty taste to say.
Great place to relax, though.
Great place to relax, though.
Why should they wear a mask outside on the beach? I was at the beach all last week, I don't prefer tan lines on my face. By the way, we easily social distanced, even with packed beaches. Stop assuming that the people who are close to each other are not from the same households. And the ones that aren't have every right to be close and make their own choices as adults. It's not their responsibility to keep a virus from spreading. It's not on them to have to worry about filling hospitals either.Marcus Aurelius said:
And you'd think covid was non-existent. Everyone crowding. Less 1/4 wearing masks in stores etc. This thing is skyrocketing. Guess the plan is to take the collateral damage. 1800 new cases in Bama alone yesterday.
Guys, this virus will be with us moving forward. Instead of worrying about spikes, let it spike. It's nature unfortunately running its course. Oh for the grace of God go all of us and I pray we are all safe on the other side, but given the odds I think we will be. There's absolutely no way we can continue to keep up this game of avoid the virus indefinitely. Since there may not be a vaccine, we might as well get used to it and let it run full throttle through society. Again, 99.997% survival rate. It sucks, but are we supposed to continue this stupid BS for the rest of our lives? If we can't have a realistic timeline for a potential vaccine, it's just not reasonable to try to avoid Covid any more than we would the flu. B/c otherwise we will be masking up, distancing and cancelling events from now until the actual end of time.
You are underestimating the effect of mixed messaging and political identity in your hypothesis. There a large numbers of people out there who believe this is a political fight, not a health issue. Many people think not wearing a mask shows support of their political leaders or that the numbers are juiced to bring down the president.
Many people aren't just taking in all the relevant facts, weighing both sides rationally, and making their own informed decision. They are being provided wrong information and lead by the nose into bad choices. Not all, but many.
Many people aren't just taking in all the relevant facts, weighing both sides rationally, and making their own informed decision. They are being provided wrong information and lead by the nose into bad choices. Not all, but many.
I'm as much a fan of liberty as the next person but when a person who has been fighting this thing daily for months calls something out, might make sense to at least ponder the advice.
Very true, because your neighbor down the road may have been on a beach vacation. Unfortunately places like beaches become super spreading events as people come from all over the US and then return back from where they came. Hopefully the beaches won't be that big of an issue because they are outdoors. Now all the bars and restaurants around the beach......
Knucklesammich said:
I'm as much a fan of liberty as the next person but when a person who has been fighting this thing daily for months calls something out, might make sense to at least ponder the advice.
This. I tend to not worry about the beaches themselves but more the ancillary stuff that comes with beach trips, but if Marcus is concerned I am concerned.
Knucklesammich said:
I'm as much a fan of liberty as the next person but when a person who has been fighting this thing daily for months calls something out, might make sense to at least ponder the advice.
He's a doctor and sounds like a damn good one. It's his job to see this stuff and be concerned. With that I agree and understand. He treats the sick and also works to prevent illness. He's doing his job. But he doesn't make policy. Nor do his concerns make any particular policies right. When you have a virus that is as survivable as this one, one has to wonder how much real concern we should have. No doubt the Dr has seen the worst this virus can put out and we've all read it. But my issue is all of the measures and limitations seem pointless or overkill if they are an indefinite thing. Yes, many will catch this. Most will be fine actually the vast vast majority will be fine. Some will die. Very unfortunate for sure. But are we willing to keep all the restrictions, shut downs, masks, and cancelled events going forever? It's now time to ask that question.
The previous shut down followed by manditory masks and effective contact tracing and testing would have prevented much of what we are seeing now. It doesnt have to be an either or situation except a few problematic areas like mass gatherings.
And it's "very unfortunate" when someone else's elderly parent dies. It's beyond horrible When it's yours.
And it's "very unfortunate" when someone else's elderly parent dies. It's beyond horrible When it's yours.
Federale01 said:
The previous shut down followed by manditory masks and effective contact tracing and testing would have prevented much of what we are seeing now. It doesnt have to be an either or situation except a few problematic areas like mass gatherings.
And it's "very unfortunate" when someone else's elderly parent dies. It's beyond horrible When it's yours.
We don't know that a mandatory mask policy would have not still lead to where we are now. It's quite possible but this spike still may have happened. Plus it wouldn't eliminate the virus. Only a vaccine can do that. But let's be honest, masking even now isn't mandatory everywhere. It's not in gyms. It's not at restaurants while people eat. And do you honestly think even with a mandatory policy everyone would have abided? The fact is we have to live our lives. Until a vaccine comes, we either mask up and limit ourselves and events or we move on.
Unfortunate/beyond horrible/absolutely tragic. Call it what you will. With that I cannot disagree. Again, it sucks but to keep that elderly person alive, are you willing to keep all of this going indefinitely? Until there's a vaccine, the virus will be here. No other way around it. This thing's related to the common cold. There's never been a cure to the common cold. Again, you might not be willing to throw in the towel. I admire that. But the virus has won. The best way to get rid of it is to let it run its course naturally, in my honest opinion. Or continue to cancel sports, limit kid's activities, keep schools closed, wear masks, social distance etc. indefinitely.
Marcus Aurelius said:
And you'd think covid was non-existent. Everyone crowding. Less 1/4 wearing masks in stores etc. This thing is skyrocketing. Guess the plan is to take the collateral damage. 1800 new cases in Bama alone yesterday.
Why didn't you cancel your trip? We had a vacation planned to Florida and acted responsibly and cancelled after seeing the cases spike. Surprised that you took the risk given your job and the potential for you to get infected.
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On the "liberties and freedom" hill that everyone seems intent on dying on regarding masks, I just find it really ironic.
People will let the govt tell them how fast they can drive, whether they have to wear pants around other people or not, how much alcohol they can drink and when they can buy it, but by God they get told to wear a mask during a pandemic and suddenly it's "MY RIGHTS NOT TO" and they'll pick THAT hill to die on.
All while falling in line to pay their vehicle inspection permit, car registration tax on a vehicle that already got taxed, etc etc etc.
But yeah, wearing a cloth mask is just too much to ask and they suddenly are suddenly concerned about liberties.
People will let the govt tell them how fast they can drive, whether they have to wear pants around other people or not, how much alcohol they can drink and when they can buy it, but by God they get told to wear a mask during a pandemic and suddenly it's "MY RIGHTS NOT TO" and they'll pick THAT hill to die on.
All while falling in line to pay their vehicle inspection permit, car registration tax on a vehicle that already got taxed, etc etc etc.
But yeah, wearing a cloth mask is just too much to ask and they suddenly are suddenly concerned about liberties.
two things happened that eventually made their way into the larger zeitgeist and changed the permission structure
- the NYC serology results showed hospitalization rates much much lower than what was guessed coming out of Italy and China
- the protests and the neutered response by public health officials was the hesitation needed for people who wanted to say **** it to go on ahead
bug is still deadly, but paranoia broke it a big way
the tragic thing is that conservatives and liberals alike have ****ed up messaging on masks. that's just become another stupid culture war fight. masks aren't a silver bullet, but they are cheap and available now. at least trying to mass employ them is a no brainer. but we ****ed it up.
- the NYC serology results showed hospitalization rates much much lower than what was guessed coming out of Italy and China
- the protests and the neutered response by public health officials was the hesitation needed for people who wanted to say **** it to go on ahead
bug is still deadly, but paranoia broke it a big way
the tragic thing is that conservatives and liberals alike have ****ed up messaging on masks. that's just become another stupid culture war fight. masks aren't a silver bullet, but they are cheap and available now. at least trying to mass employ them is a no brainer. but we ****ed it up.
He mentioned stores specifically I don't think it's about the beach itself and if so it's about crowding on the beach. After being cooped up everyone deserves time off. After fighting a disease nobody knows anything about, for months, even more so.
No we don't know if any of the shut downs helped but we don't know that they didn't either. I'm personally in the camp that total shutdowns cause massive issues beyond COVID, that said I believe I have a responsibility to try and not get those around me sick. I have the right to life, liberty, and happiness but so do the people around me.
In short it's not about me not getting it, it is about me not giving it to someone else and if a mask could help there it's a minor inconvenience.
No we don't know if any of the shut downs helped but we don't know that they didn't either. I'm personally in the camp that total shutdowns cause massive issues beyond COVID, that said I believe I have a responsibility to try and not get those around me sick. I have the right to life, liberty, and happiness but so do the people around me.
In short it's not about me not getting it, it is about me not giving it to someone else and if a mask could help there it's a minor inconvenience.
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Exactly. It got turned into a political football and now neither side will budge..... because ya know.... "My team will win" attitude. The tribal warfare attitude of our country now is just killing us. There is absolutely ZERO room for meeting in the middle on any subject.cone said:
the tragic thing is that conservatives and liberals alike have ****ed up messaging on masks. that's just become another stupid culture war fight. masks aren't a silver bullet, but they are cheap and available now. at least trying to mass employ them is a no brainer. but we ****ed it up.
I'm convinced in my life time I'll never see America unite for anything again.
So much this, it's a totem on political beliefs. A gang color of sorts.
I have nothing to add except blue stars for the posts above.
AggieYankee1 said:FrioAg 00 said:
I believe that you are correct. It never should have been a top down decision, not in America. The government simply cannot enforce compliance with their illegal mandates.
The collective citizenry has decided that the cost is not worth whatever risk draconian measures would reduce. Those ideas were weighed and measured, and they have been mostly rejected.
Anyone who wishes to implement whatever quarantine measures are best for them can do so freely - they just cannot impose their restrictions on other free people.
The good news is that within a few months everyone will have been exposed to it and the results will be what they are. The early returns are that the results will be much less than what early predictors said. And once everyone has been exposed for their first time, the odds of the disease having much impact nationally are very low.
And for those who think this virus is not a foreign enemy. What happens when other country's get this under control and we never do.
They win.
We lose.
Literally nothing happens. The impact from this virus alone even under the worst case scenario is minimal. We've already done more damage by having restrictions in place for over 4 months.
We don't "know" but several studies have shown masks greatly limit the spread. A good testing and tracing program would really fill in the blanks. For example, my SIL got in from her gym, she assumed. It wasn't until a few days after she had symptoms that her gym sent out a message that they were closing for a while because there had been an outbreak. No one asked her where she had been, no one from the county called her to warn her others in the gym had tested positive. She was just left to assume it was the gym and that was confirmed by the gym and the gym alone almost a week AFTER people started getting sick there
Where I live, if you go into a restaurant they take your name and phone number if you are dining in. The wait staff wears masks. If someone tests positive they track down everyone they may have come into contact with it. I feel fairly safe to go to a restaurant here at the moment. I would not go out to eat in Houston right now.
I don't understand why some folks try to shrug off wearing masks by saying, "we have to live our lives." We can do both.
Where I live, if you go into a restaurant they take your name and phone number if you are dining in. The wait staff wears masks. If someone tests positive they track down everyone they may have come into contact with it. I feel fairly safe to go to a restaurant here at the moment. I would not go out to eat in Houston right now.
I don't understand why some folks try to shrug off wearing masks by saying, "we have to live our lives." We can do both.
Where do you live that they're taking names and numbers? I haven't heard of that at all around here. My parents go out to eat quite a bit and I would love it if they could be contacted if needed.
Damn. This thread smells a lot like Forum 16.
I think early on contact tracing was great, at this stage it is not economically feasible, you would have to create a massive government entity and create a huge burden to businesses. Even with that you would have a message every other week saying you had contact. I guarantee based on the stats that I have come in contact multiple times, I just have not had it.........yet!
I have no doubt at some point I will get it, it has no cure and it is highly contagious, reality is we will all get it, we can push it down the road but until there is a cure we will have spikes and people will get it.
I have no doubt at some point I will get it, it has no cure and it is highly contagious, reality is we will all get it, we can push it down the road but until there is a cure we will have spikes and people will get it.
Easy come, Easy go
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