Rhinovirus Outbreak and Masks/Social Distancing

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ramblin_ag02
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8:13a, 9/3/20
AG
Our small rural town has been let off pretty easy so far from Covid, and I'm not seeing the volumes of super sick people that some of yall are dealing with. However, I am seeing a huge outbreak of flu-like illness, and all the covid tests are coming back positive for rhinovirus. Is anyone else seeing this?

Rhino seems to have a similar R0 to Covid, and it's somewhat disheartening that rhino is running rampant despite all our covid precautions. You'd think anything that slows down rhino would slow covid and vice-versa
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Bucketrunner
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8:21a, 9/3/20
I find that wearing mine in this heat gives me sinus problems I wouldn't normally have.
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KlinkerAg11
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8:33a, 9/3/20
AG
I'm assuming this is what happens when people aren't around each other for long periods of time and then are again.

Your immune system has taken a break and now is getting exposed again.
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flogmat
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In reply to Bucketrunner • 8:34a, 9/3/20
AG
Bucketrunner said:
I find that wearing mine in this heat gives me sinus problems I wouldn't normally have.
Agree 100%. I've noticed that every time I wear the mask (for longer than just a few minutes), my nose starts running and I eventually get congested. Takes a while to clear. I'm sure that my allergies and asthma have something to do with it, but I dread the mask because I know that I'll have to carry around tissues for an hour if I wear it for longer than a few minutes.
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Cepe
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9:05a, 9/3/20
AG
The fact is that it's very difficult to discuss mask usage without it becoming political quickly. It amazes me that there is so much shaming about it.

In my mind a mask is just an additional barrier. Does it help? Yes. Is it the end all, be all of protection? Probably not.

I use the swiss cheese model to think about it



The distancing, washing hands, coughing into elbow, etc. probably take you most of the way to what we want to achieve. Adding a mask as another layer probably helps but at a lower percentage once stacked on top of all the other measures. Stacking probabilities still means the virus gets through.

Is this extra percentage worth mask mandates? I don't know but I have I my opinion that it isn't adding that much more to what we were already doing but isn't totally worthless.
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KidDoc
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9:22a, 9/3/20
AG
Not surprising at all.

Masks, aside from N95 fitted masks, were made to stop bacterial spread in the OR not viral spread. They seem to be somewhat helpful on a population level to decrease viral spread but misuse and poor quality mask are rampant. There was a decent study looking at particles showing the bandanna and gator style masks actually worsen particle spread. I traveled this last weekend and the number of people with poor quality mask or not covering their nose was tremendous.

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ramblin_ag02
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9:28a, 9/3/20
AG
It's not the just mask thing. People here are rural and do a pretty good job staying to themselves. The social distancing and lack of gatherings isn't all that different from our normal way of life, especially during the summer. But even with additional shutdowns of restaurants, cancelling fairs and city events, and the masks we're still getting a big viral outbreak.

I know that all these precautions are reasonable and should be effective at reducing viral spread, but it makes me wonder if any of it is helping at all. Maybe we'd be having an even worse outbreak without all this. It also destroys any optimism I might have had that flu season would be milder than normal with all these precautions
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aggiemike02
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In reply to ramblin_ag02 • 9:43a, 9/3/20
AG
do you think it is at all related to school (if your area is back to normal schooling)?
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AggieSarah01
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In reply to KlinkerAg11 • 9:48a, 9/3/20
AG
Yes, my kids have been back at school for 3 weeks now. The 2nd week of school pretty much everyone came down with a cold. I think it is at least partly due to all the kids being around each other for the first time in 6 months.
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bigtruckguy3500
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9:49a, 9/3/20
I'm seeing a lot of pharyngitis with some pretty good fevers and anterior tender LAD that's strep/covid negative. Not routinely testing for mono.
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AggieSarah01
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9:50a, 9/3/20
AG
I am actually happy that the cold was passed around. I worry about the kids who aren't going back to school and what it will do to their immune systems. And I am hoping that this cold was a coronavirus and will give all of us some cross immunity!
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KlinkerAg11
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In reply to AggieSarah01 • 9:52a, 9/3/20
AG
Same thing happened to my son at the in home day care he goes to.

I told my wife the same thing, It's probably good we all got the sniffles because it'll boost our immunity to Covid.

Hopefully.
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ramblin_ag02
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In reply to aggiemike02 • 10:14a, 9/3/20
AG
This started about 10 days before school started. I know some band and athletics stuff was starting up, so it may be related to that
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P.U.T.U
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10:28a, 9/3/20
AG
My son got it about 2 weeks after taking about 2 months off from going to daycare. Everyone was freaking out that it was COVID but negative. When kids aren't swapping germs they get sick when they get thrown back in the middle of everything. Pretty much to be expected.
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murphyag
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11:00a, 9/3/20
AG
My kids have always seemed to get sick with bad colds/sinus stuff each year at some point during the first few weeks of school.
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74OA
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11:46a, 9/3/20
AG
I wonder if people with sinus issues are wearing dirty cloth masks? Wash or change at least daily.

Afrin might be a simple solution to mask-related stuffiness? Works for me.
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Fuzzy Dunlop
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12:23p, 9/3/20
AG
I know a school nurse that is reporting an elevated number of strep cases, especially this time of year. She believes it is due to mask usage, whether correct usage or not, because the body is not completely exhaling the germs from the system and is inhaling what it is getting rid of.

Not sure if true but interesting nonetheless.
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murphyag
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12:56p, 9/3/20
AG
I'd bet there are kids who don't use a clean mask everyday. If the adults in the family think Covid is a hoax/hate the mask wearing, I doubt they would take the time to wash masks very often. Could explain the increase in other viruses/strep throat others have mentioned. But, my kids always get sick with colds/sinus junk the first few weeks of school each year. So, could just be something like that.

I bought several boxes of disposable surgical masks from a place that makes them in Austin. I'd rather my kids just use them one day and then throw them away. They have extra masks to keep in their backpacks in case any get lost, etc.
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Beckdiesel03
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2:44p, 9/3/20
AG
Yep my kids are 2 weeks in to school and both dealing with minor colds. I explained to them that's what happens when they are away from larger groups of kids for so long.
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BiochemAg97
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In reply to P.U.T.U • 3:51p, 9/3/20
AG
P.U.T.U said:
My son got it about 2 weeks after taking about 2 months off from going to daycare. Everyone was freaking out that it was COVID but negative. When kids aren't swapping germs they get sick when they get thrown back in the middle of everything. Pretty much to be expected.
This worries me about cold and flu season. If anyone gets anything, it will be COVID protocol and COVID tests.

On top of that, some are being told to quarantine when exposed to a possible covid. Could very quickly get a lot of people quarantining simply because some people catch a cold or flu.
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AggieSarah01
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4:03p, 9/3/20
AG
I was wondering what we could have, then realized it was acting exactly like a cold, with what seemed to be an incubation period of 2-3 days. Plus all the kids were symptomatic. Therefore I figured it was highly, highly unlikely to be COVID.
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gumgardener
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5:42p, 9/3/20
AG
If the cold and flu season is not down dramatically this year, that's going to shoot some pretty big holes in the "wear a mask, it keeps everyone safer" crowd.
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bigtruckguy3500
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In reply to gumgardener • 11:25p, 9/3/20
https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2020/07/24/coronavirus-restrictions

Flu season in the southern hemisphere was quite a bit lighter. Correlation of course doesn't prove causation, but I think it's safe to assume the increased hygiene, masks, social distancing, and other COVID mitigation measures likely played a role.
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MouthBQ98
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In reply to Fuzzy Dunlop • 10:26a, 9/4/20
AG
Strep is bacterial and thus it is pretty much contact spread, and masks cause a LOT more face and mouth to hand to surface Contact transfer. It would be safe to say once strep breaks out where masks are in heavy use, it will spread rapidly, as will mono, some viral colds, or other contact spread type nose and throat diseases I should think, but some colds and flu should be more inhibited.
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KidDoc
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In reply to MouthBQ98 • 10:33a, 9/4/20
AG
MouthBQ98 said:
Strep is bacterial and thus it is pretty much contact spread, and masks cause a LOT more face and mouth to hand to surface Contact transfer. It would be safe to say once strep breaks out where masks are in heavy use, it will spread rapidly, as will mono, some viral colds, or other contact spread type nose and throat diseases I should think, but some colds and flu should be more inhibited.
Sorry but this does not make sense to me.

Strep always spikes this time of year due to school restarting and the 20-30% carriers spreading their saliva to the non carriers. Masks, if used properly, should make this drop to near 0 as they are very effective for bacteria prevention as evidenced by decades of data in the OR.

Viruses not so much, as almost all virus are spread via mucosal exposure to nose/eyes/mouth (aside from Hepatitis, HIV, Ebola other blood borne pathogens). I cannot find a good controlled study proving that masking, outside of N95, does much for viral prevention. I think the major issues with mask use in children is inappropriate use, hand to face contact as you mentioned, inadequate quality of masks. Personally I don't use cloth mask I just cannot fathom how they are good for much of anything aside from limiting the distance of droplet spread. I use N95 or surgical.

No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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tysker
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In reply to KidDoc • 12:43p, 9/4/20
AG
KidDoc said:
MouthBQ98 said:
Strep is bacterial and thus it is pretty much contact spread, and masks cause a LOT more face and mouth to hand to surface Contact transfer. It would be safe to say once strep breaks out where masks are in heavy use, it will spread rapidly, as will mono, some viral colds, or other contact spread type nose and throat diseases I should think, but some colds and flu should be more inhibited.
Sorry but this does not make sense to me.

Strep always spikes this time of year due to school restarting and the 20-30% carriers spreading their saliva to the non carriers. Masks, if used properly, should make this drop to near 0 as they are very effective for bacteria prevention as evidenced by decades of data in the OR.

Viruses not so much, as almost all virus are spread via mucosal exposure to nose/eyes/mouth (aside from Hepatitis, HIV, Ebola other blood borne pathogens). I cannot find a good controlled study proving that masking, outside of N95, does much for viral prevention. I think the major issues with mask use in children is inappropriate use, hand to face contact as you mentioned, inadequate quality of masks. Personally I don't use cloth mask I just cannot fathom how they are good for much of anything aside from limiting the distance of droplet spread. I use N95 or surgical.
Unfortunately the CDC is telling the public that they should not be using surgical or N95 masks.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/about-face-coverings.html
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KidDoc
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In reply to tysker • 1:18p, 9/4/20
AG
tysker said:
KidDoc said:
MouthBQ98 said:
Strep is bacterial and thus it is pretty much contact spread, and masks cause a LOT more face and mouth to hand to surface Contact transfer. It would be safe to say once strep breaks out where masks are in heavy use, it will spread rapidly, as will mono, some viral colds, or other contact spread type nose and throat diseases I should think, but some colds and flu should be more inhibited.
Sorry but this does not make sense to me.

Strep always spikes this time of year due to school restarting and the 20-30% carriers spreading their saliva to the non carriers. Masks, if used properly, should make this drop to near 0 as they are very effective for bacteria prevention as evidenced by decades of data in the OR.

Viruses not so much, as almost all virus are spread via mucosal exposure to nose/eyes/mouth (aside from Hepatitis, HIV, Ebola other blood borne pathogens). I cannot find a good controlled study proving that masking, outside of N95, does much for viral prevention. I think the major issues with mask use in children is inappropriate use, hand to face contact as you mentioned, inadequate quality of masks. Personally I don't use cloth mask I just cannot fathom how they are good for much of anything aside from limiting the distance of droplet spread. I use N95 or surgical.
Unfortunately the CDC is telling the public that they should not be using surgical or N95 masks.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/about-face-coverings.html
Yes they should update that. The concern initially was a strain on the supply. That should no longer be an issue. I know I had no problem getting N95s off amazon.
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BiochemAg97
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In reply to KidDoc • 4:34p, 9/4/20
AG
KidDoc said:
MouthBQ98 said:
Strep is bacterial and thus it is pretty much contact spread, and masks cause a LOT more face and mouth to hand to surface Contact transfer. It would be safe to say once strep breaks out where masks are in heavy use, it will spread rapidly, as will mono, some viral colds, or other contact spread type nose and throat diseases I should think, but some colds and flu should be more inhibited.
Sorry but this does not make sense to me.

Strep always spikes this time of year due to school restarting and the 20-30% carriers spreading their saliva to the non carriers. Masks, if used properly, should make this drop to near 0 as they are very effective for bacteria prevention as evidenced by decades of data in the OR.

Viruses not so much, as almost all virus are spread via mucosal exposure to nose/eyes/mouth (aside from Hepatitis, HIV, Ebola other blood borne pathogens). I cannot find a good controlled study proving that masking, outside of N95, does much for viral prevention. I think the major issues with mask use in children is inappropriate use, hand to face contact as you mentioned, inadequate quality of masks. Personally I don't use cloth mask I just cannot fathom how they are good for much of anything aside from limiting the distance of droplet spread. I use N95 or surgical.

I think the key is "if used properly". Most of the public isn't using the masks properly. You see plenty of people dropping below their nose, constantly touching the mask to adjust. But more than that, not putting on/taking off correctly, reusing without sanitizing, etc.
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Gizzards
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In reply to AggieSarah01 • 8:38a, 9/5/20
AG
AggieSarah01 said:
I was wondering what we could have, then realized it was acting exactly like a cold, with what seemed to be an incubation period of 2-3 days. Plus all the kids were symptomatic. Therefore I figured it was highly, highly unlikely to be COVID.

Unless the kids got tested you don't know if it was Covid or just a cold. Most kids with Covid are asymptomatic or have typical "cold" symptoms.
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AggieSarah01
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In reply to Gizzards • 2:55p, 9/7/20
AG
Although covid has a typical incubation period of 3-5 days up to 10-14 days. This cold seemed to be passed from kid to kid every 2 days. Still think very unlikely to be covid passing that easily between young kids!
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Keegan99
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3:03p, 9/7/20
AG
Masks have no apparent impact on rhinovirus in Germany.

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BiochemAg97
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In reply to Keegan99 • 3:53p, 9/7/20
AG
Keegan99 said:
Masks have no apparent impact on rhinovirus in Germany.

No impact? Looks like it enhanced the spread of rhinovirus if I am reading the graphs correctly.
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