For the Docs - Thoughts on this Pre-Print Study on Mutations

1,975 Views | 12 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by moko76
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2:29p, 9/23/20
AG
Thoughts on this? Would the take away be that it seems the new strain would potentially have a higher rate of spread, but that not necessarily be any more "virulent" with outcomes still being based on the same risk factors, etc?


https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.09.22.20199125v1

"Virtually all strains in the second wave have a Gly614 amino acid replacement in the spike protein, a polymorphism that has been linked to increased transmission and infectivity. Patients infected with the Gly614 variant strains had significantly higher virus loads in the nasopharynx on initial diagnosis. We found little evidence of a significant relationship between virus genotypes and altered virulence, stressing the linkage between disease severity, underlying medical conditions, and host genetics."

I guess that would be a mixed blessing. Higher transmission rate, but no effect on virulence.
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Marcus Aurelius
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6:21p, 9/23/20
AG
Not surprising - given the S-spike protein's role in cell entry. This protein will be the location for more lethal mutations in the future I am sure. Much like neuraminidase in influenza. It is the primary flu protein involved in infectivity. Thus flu vaccines and antiflu meds target the protein. It mutates yearly. With novel strains originating in Australia.

It's very important that sars-cov2 vaccines target conserved domains of the S-spike protein. Part of the challenge of vaccine development.
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Capitol Ag
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In reply to Marcus Aurelius • 8:27a, 9/24/20
AG
Marcus Aurelius said:
Not surprising - given the S-spike protein's role in cell entry. This protein will be the location for more lethal mutations in the future I am sure. Much like neuraminidase in influenza. It is the primary flu protein involved in infectivity. Thus flu vaccines and antiflu meds target the protein. It mutates yearly. With novel strains originating in Australia.

It's very important that sars-cov2 vaccines target conserved domains of the S-spike protein. Part of the challenge of vaccine development.


Doc, if it mutates, wouldn't the virus become less lethal over time? How does it work? And please use grade school terminology
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Windy City Ag
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8:42a, 9/24/20
AG
I guess in reading this . . . . the virus remains just as virulent buts spreads much more easily. That is a net negative at least for the near term.

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KidDoc
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In reply to Marcus Aurelius • 9:53a, 9/24/20
AG
Marcus Aurelius said:
Not surprising - given the S-spike protein's role in cell entry. This protein will be the location for more lethal mutations in the future I am sure. Much like neuraminidase in influenza. It is the primary flu protein involved in infectivity. Thus flu vaccines and antiflu meds target the protein. It mutates yearly. With novel strains originating in Australia.

It's very important that sars-cov2 vaccines target conserved domains of the S-spike protein. Part of the challenge of vaccine development.
YES!

The flu vaccine is terrible. I know it is old but the picked a very poor target. Hopefully all the cash being dumped into vaccine research will result in a better flu vaccine in the future. I know there is active phase 3 trials on a better flu vaccine already.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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dermdoc
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In reply to Marcus Aurelius • 11:14a, 9/24/20
AG
Marcus Aurelius said:
Not surprising - given the S-spike protein's role in cell entry. This protein will be the location for more lethal mutations in the future I am sure. Much like neuraminidase in influenza. It is the primary flu protein involved in infectivity. Thus flu vaccines and antiflu meds target the protein. It mutates yearly. With novel strains originating in Australia.

It's very important that sars-cov2 vaccines target conserved domains of the S-spike protein. Part of the challenge of vaccine development.
When has a respiratory spread virus ever mutated into a more lethal form? And not trying to be argumentative but I am unaware of any historically.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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KidDoc
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In reply to dermdoc • 1:04p, 9/24/20
AG
dermdoc said:
Marcus Aurelius said:
Not surprising - given the S-spike protein's role in cell entry. This protein will be the location for more lethal mutations in the future I am sure. Much like neuraminidase in influenza. It is the primary flu protein involved in infectivity. Thus flu vaccines and antiflu meds target the protein. It mutates yearly. With novel strains originating in Australia.

It's very important that sars-cov2 vaccines target conserved domains of the S-spike protein. Part of the challenge of vaccine development.
When has a respiratory spread virus ever mutated into a more lethal form? And not trying to be argumentative but I am unaware of any historically.
Swine flu, Spanish flu
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dermdoc
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In reply to KidDoc • 1:11p, 9/24/20
AG
KidDoc said:
dermdoc said:
Marcus Aurelius said:
Not surprising - given the S-spike protein's role in cell entry. This protein will be the location for more lethal mutations in the future I am sure. Much like neuraminidase in influenza. It is the primary flu protein involved in infectivity. Thus flu vaccines and antiflu meds target the protein. It mutates yearly. With novel strains originating in Australia.

It's very important that sars-cov2 vaccines target conserved domains of the S-spike protein. Part of the challenge of vaccine development.
When has a respiratory spread virus ever mutated into a more lethal form? And not trying to be argumentative but I am unaware of any historically.
Swine flu, Spanish flu
Again without trying to be argumentative, that is not what my research and studies show. The Spanish flu was considered a novel virus and had to have mutated to a less virulent form as it does not kill people.

Same with the swine flu.
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dermdoc
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1:14p, 9/24/20
AG
Respiratory viruses historically have I believe 100% of the time mutated to a less virulent, more contagious form so they can survive.
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KidDoc
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In reply to dermdoc • 1:23p, 9/24/20
AG
dermdoc said:
KidDoc said:
dermdoc said:
Marcus Aurelius said:
Not surprising - given the S-spike protein's role in cell entry. This protein will be the location for more lethal mutations in the future I am sure. Much like neuraminidase in influenza. It is the primary flu protein involved in infectivity. Thus flu vaccines and antiflu meds target the protein. It mutates yearly. With novel strains originating in Australia.

It's very important that sars-cov2 vaccines target conserved domains of the S-spike protein. Part of the challenge of vaccine development.
When has a respiratory spread virus ever mutated into a more lethal form? And not trying to be argumentative but I am unaware of any historically.
Swine flu, Spanish flu
Again without trying to be argumentative, that is not what my research and studies show. The Spanish flu was considered a novel virus and had to have mutated to a less virulent form as it does not kill people.

Same with the swine flu.
I see your point but it is semantics. Spanish flu is still flu, just a more virulent version. Just like COVID is a coronavirus just more virulent.

I agree though that known viral mutations essentially always are less virulent, otherwise they will extinguish themselves like Ebola.
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Marcus Aurelius
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In reply to dermdoc • 1:40p, 9/24/20
AG
dermdoc said:
Marcus Aurelius said:
Not surprising - given the S-spike protein's role in cell entry. This protein will be the location for more lethal mutations in the future I am sure. Much like neuraminidase in influenza. It is the primary flu protein involved in infectivity. Thus flu vaccines and antiflu meds target the protein. It mutates yearly. With novel strains originating in Australia.

It's very important that sars-cov2 vaccines target conserved domains of the S-spike protein. Part of the challenge of vaccine development.
When has a respiratory spread virus ever mutated into a more lethal form? And not trying to be argumentative but I am unaware of any historically.
Yes, the natural selection for viral mutations is attenuation so the virus survives. But - there was a mutation identified in hemagluttinin in the 2009 H1N1 strain that made it deadlier.

https://www.nature.com/articles/srep28583#:~:text=Among%20those%2C%20a%20mutation%20in,respiratory%20droplet%20transmission%20between%20ferrets.

And - it is theorized, but obviously not proven, that there was a mutation in the 1918 Spanish flu rendering it deadlier.

https://www.history.com/news/spanish-flu-second-wave-resurgence.
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dermdoc
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2:18p, 9/24/20
AG
Fair enough and I learned something.

To me, the numbers would seem to indicate this covid virus is mutating to a less lethal, more contagious form.
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DadHammer
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In reply to Marcus Aurelius • 6:44a, 9/27/20
AG
But wouldn't it be correct to say that the overwhelming number of viruses mutate to a less deadly strain. You listed a couple but that seems like a tiny fraction of the cases. Just asking not arguing.
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moko76
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9:28p, 9/28/20
AG
Recent evidence has also implicated lectins as potential receptors for SARS CoV2 entry. If lectins are important they may render spike/RBD mutations less relevant. It is still yet unknown, however how the two systems affect viral entry.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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