https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/pfizer-coronavirus-vaccine-reinfection-year-ugur-sahin

Big Pharma.

Oh joy for the money

I wonder if we will eventually see the flu vaccine and covid vaccine be mixed, if that is possible. Seems it is with other vaccines.

In all honesty, I hope it comes out soon and those most at risk get it first. And while In take an immunosuppressant, I am fine with waiting. The reason is that while researching the Remicad I take when my doctor first suggested it to me and prescribed it to me, I found that the normal course of testing was the1 million patient mark to look for side effects. Seems that number and a certain period of time were adequate to see the potential harmful side effects of a drug.

So if everyone "does their part" and gets it, the virus is gone within a year right?

Capitol Ag said:

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I wonder if we will eventually see the flu vaccine and covid vaccine be mixed, if that is possible. Seems it is with other vaccines.

In all honesty, I hope it comes out soon and those most at risk get it first. And while In take an immunosuppressant, I am fine with waiting. The reason is that while researching the Remicad I take when my doctor first suggested it to me and prescribed it to me, I found that the normal course of testing was the1 million patient mark to look for side effects. Seems that number and a certain period of time were adequate to see the potential harmful side effects of a drug.

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I don't think you can combine the current flu vaccine (virus) with the mRNA covid vaccine. Likely could create an mRNA flu vaccine. Since the mRNA is synthesized, it could be easier and faster to develop and make than the traditional flu vaccine. Also, potentially could make a multivalent flu vaccine with mRNA. Need some safety studies on high doses of mRNA to see how far you could push it. Looks like 50ng was a good dose for covid, but the 200ng was tolerated. The limit becomes how many targets can the body handle at once without adverse immune response.


I wouldn't necessarily compare the numbers and time needed to approve a drug with the numbers and time needed to approve a vaccine. Drug metabolism and clearance is a very different process than eliciting an immune response.

aggiegolfer03 said:

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So if everyone "does their part" and gets it, the virus is gone within a year right?

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Gone or not a problem? We have been vaccinating for many diseases that still are here, just not a widespread problem.

If everyone gets it (or even 90% get it), we could still see isolated cases but wouldn't have widespread outbreaks. Similar to measles or other illnesses that we routinely vaccinate for.

BiochemAg97 said:

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Capitol Ag said:

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I wonder if we will eventually see the flu vaccine and covid vaccine be mixed, if that is possible. Seems it is with other vaccines.

In all honesty, I hope it comes out soon and those most at risk get it first. And while In take an immunosuppressant, I am fine with waiting. The reason is that while researching the Remicad I take when my doctor first suggested it to me and prescribed it to me, I found that the normal course of testing was the1 million patient mark to look for side effects. Seems that number and a certain period of time were adequate to see the potential harmful side effects of a drug.

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I don't think you can combine the current flu vaccine (virus) with the mRNA covid vaccine. Likely could create an mRNA flu vaccine. Since the mRNA is synthesized, it could be easier and faster to develop and make than the traditional flu vaccine. Also, potentially could make a multivalent flu vaccine with mRNA. Need some safety studies on high doses of mRNA to see how far you could push it. Looks like 50ng was a good dose for covid, but the 200ng was tolerated. The limit becomes how many targets can the body handle at once without adverse immune response.


I wouldn't necessarily compare the numbers and time needed to approve a drug with the numbers and time needed to approve a vaccine. Drug metabolism and clearance is a very different process than eliciting an immune response.

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That is good to know. Something I did not realize.

I do know Ugur. He very humble and honestly one of the nicest peoole you will ever meet.

Harry Stone said:

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I do know Ugar. He very humble and honestly one of the nicest peoole you will ever meet.

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Know Ugur from previous work on a cancer vaccine and they used to look at us as their model. How a few years can change things.

BiochemAg97 said:

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aggiegolfer03 said:

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So if everyone "does their part" and gets it, the virus is gone within a year right?

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Gone or not a problem? We have been vaccinating for many diseases that still are here, just not a widespread problem.

If everyone gets it (or even 90% get it), we could still see isolated cases but wouldn't have widespread outbreaks. Similar to measles or other illnesses that we routinely vaccinate for.

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The virus is always there, but if enough people are immune because they take the vaccine there won't be an outbreak.

But if a lot of people refuse the vaccine or don't maintain their boosters, we'll have a problem again. Right?

74OA said:

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BiochemAg97 said:

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aggiegolfer03 said:

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So if everyone "does their part" and gets it, the virus is gone within a year right?

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Gone or not a problem? We have been vaccinating for many diseases that still are here, just not a widespread problem.

If everyone gets it (or even 90% get it), we could still see isolated cases but wouldn't have widespread outbreaks. Similar to measles or other illnesses that we routinely vaccinate for.

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The virus is always there, but if enough people are immune because they take the vaccine there won't be an outbreak.

But if a lot of people refuse the vaccine or don't maintain their boosters, we'll have a problem again. Right?

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Yep.

The other way to have a problem is for a new virus to jump from animals or COVID to jump from humans to animals, mutate, and then jump back. If either of these results in a virus different enough we get to start all over again. However, like the flu virus, I suspect we can just reformulate the existing vaccines and not really need the year of testing. If you look at Moderna's development timeline, development and production of a modified vaccine should be weeks to a couple months if you can skip the testing.

I suspect there will be increased surveillance of zoonotic viruses at least for a while and maybe we get to a point where covid vaccine becomes like the flu vaccine, reformulated on a regular basis to target the most likely candidates for the next pandemic.

aggiegolfer03 said:

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So if everyone "does their part" and gets it, the virus is gone within a year right?

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Only if we also do a complete nationwide lockdown in February for 4-6 weeks, as is being proposed.

We are tracking tters in our convalescent plasma donors.

So far, everyone has basically maintained the same level of antibodies in subsequent donations. Which is good news for longer term immune responses.

What I think will be interesting will be the donors
Who donate after vaccination, and then see how their anti body titer compares to those that were sick.

fightingfarmer09 said:

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aggiegolfer03 said:

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So if everyone "does their part" and gets it, the virus is gone within a year right?

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Only if we also do a complete nationwide lockdown in February for 4-6 weeks, as is being proposed.

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I know your joking, but anyone floating this idea as a solution at this point has been leaving under a rock (or in a basement) for the last 9 months,

All it takes is looking beyond the US borders. Europe was under significant lockdowns for longer than 4-6 weeks and are now getting a second wave. Australia was under a nationwide lockdown for months and then ended up with new cases once they came out. New Zealand had it "eliminated" after a several month lockdown only for it to pop up again.

A lockdown in China early enough may have prevented the global pandemic, but once it spread globally, even if you stop the spread in your borders, it will find a way in from somewhere else and you have the issue all over again.

Localized restrictions may help with a spike, but the shape and durations of the spikes have been the same for each country/region regardless of how light or strong of a lockdown approach has been tried. At best, a lockdown may reduce the number of cases at peak.

I'm waiting for the talk of a nationwide vaccine mandate. I'm guessing that won't happen until after inauguration and Trump isn't in charge of vaccine distribution anymore.

SoulSlaveAG2005 said:

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We are tracking tters in our convalescent plasma donors.

So far, everyone has basically maintained the same level of antibodies in subsequent donations. Which is good news for longer term immune responses.

What I think will be interesting will be the donors
Who donate after vaccination, and then see how their anti body titer compares to those that were sick.

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Based on the data released after the phase 1 and 2, the vaccines produce an antibody response at least as strong as someone who was sick and recovered. That has been consistent across the big 4 vaccines.

Those who never develop symptoms don't have as strong of an immune response.

can you (or anyone else) explain again why we shouldn't be concerned with the mRNA platform and long-term autoimmune issues?

it doesn't seem like having your own cells produce the antigens needed to provoke the antibody production has a long-term safety demonstration.

bottom line up front I'm worried about auto immune complications and cancer from an experimental vaccine

gfy

is this QAnon



I'm looking to be educated

I just read about a guy I know that worked for Moderna years ago and founded Suzhou Abogen Biosciences has their own mRNA vaccine in late stages.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7377714/

thanks for the good faith response

cone said:

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thanks for the good faith response

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also, mRNA is transiently expressed so it doesnt insert itself into the genome.

KidDoc said:

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People need to stop comparing any vaccine to flu vaccine. Flu is literally the worst vaccination we have. It has terrible efficacy and targets are mutating part of the flu. It is an extremely primitive vaccine much like polio & small pox- basically kill the virus then inject into a patient.

The mRNA vaccines are a whole new animal. I am concerned about long term efficacy but only time will tell.

And we have eliminated smallpox from the planet and are very close with polio. So wide spread effective vaccine world-wide can eliminate a virus from the planet. It is not "always there" unless it is like Tetanus and lives in the dirt or the rare zooneses ( Lyme disease, RMSF).

There was a universal flu vaccine that was looking promising but it looks like it failed phase 3:
https://www.biospace.com/article/releases/biondvax-announces-topline-results-from-phase-3-clinical-trial-of-the-m-001-universal-influenza-vaccine-candidate/

mRNA vaccine tech is very exciting for multiple infections and even cancers if it gives long term immunity.

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Well, COVID is zoonotic so there is that.

BiochemAg97 said:

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KidDoc said:

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People need to stop comparing any vaccine to flu vaccine. Flu is literally the worst vaccination we have. It has terrible efficacy and targets are mutating part of the flu. It is an extremely primitive vaccine much like polio & small pox- basically kill the virus then inject into a patient.

The mRNA vaccines are a whole new animal. I am concerned about long term efficacy but only time will tell.

And we have eliminated smallpox from the planet and are very close with polio. So wide spread effective vaccine world-wide can eliminate a virus from the planet. It is not "always there" unless it is like Tetanus and lives in the dirt or the rare zooneses ( Lyme disease, RMSF).

There was a universal flu vaccine that was looking promising but it looks like it failed phase 3:
https://www.biospace.com/article/releases/biondvax-announces-topline-results-from-phase-3-clinical-trial-of-the-m-001-universal-influenza-vaccine-candidate/

mRNA vaccine tech is very exciting for multiple infections and even cancers if it gives long term immunity.

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Well, COVID is zoonotic so there is that.

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Technically you are correct. But it is not a classic infection like Lyme or Malaria that passes easily from animal to human. It takes a very specific and thankfully rare situation to jump species kind-of like Ebola.

KidDoc said:

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BiochemAg97 said:

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KidDoc said:

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People need to stop comparing any vaccine to flu vaccine. Flu is literally the worst vaccination we have. It has terrible efficacy and targets are mutating part of the flu. It is an extremely primitive vaccine much like polio & small pox- basically kill the virus then inject into a patient.

The mRNA vaccines are a whole new animal. I am concerned about long term efficacy but only time will tell.

And we have eliminated smallpox from the planet and are very close with polio. So wide spread effective vaccine world-wide can eliminate a virus from the planet. It is not "always there" unless it is like Tetanus and lives in the dirt or the rare zooneses ( Lyme disease, RMSF).

There was a universal flu vaccine that was looking promising but it looks like it failed phase 3:
https://www.biospace.com/article/releases/biondvax-announces-topline-results-from-phase-3-clinical-trial-of-the-m-001-universal-influenza-vaccine-candidate/

mRNA vaccine tech is very exciting for multiple infections and even cancers if it gives long term immunity.

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Well, COVID is zoonotic so there is that.

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Technically you are correct. But it is not a classic infection like Lyme or Malaria that passes easily from animal to human. It takes a very specific and thankfully rare situation to jump species kind-of like Ebola.

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Sure, there are things that have to happen for a animal virus to become human transmissible. However, if the virus is human transmissible and also can infect an animal reservoir, it could easily go back and forth without further mutation. Given we know that COVID virus can infect cats (infected Tigers in a zoo early on), cats (domestic and feral) could be a reservoir.

Denmark is currently culling all their mink farms because there has been transmission between mink and humans. It is not clear to me if the mink virus is the COVID virus that infected mink from humans and then back to humans. There is some discussion that this virus is sufficiently different that there is concern the vaccine wouldn't target this virus. So, it could be a mink coronavirus that jumped to humans or it could be the COVID virus that jumped to mink and transmitted back to humans.

They'll probably just make a flu/COVID combo vaccine in the future and we'll just get it like we do every year. No biggie.

We've never had a coronavirus vaccine and for a virus that tends to rapidly mutate (such as influenza) I'd be shocked if we ever have one that lasts more than 12-18 months.

The Fall Guy said:

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https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/pfizer-coronavirus-vaccine-reinfection-year-ugur-sahin

Big Pharma.

Oh joy for the money

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Thank God for big pharma.

Do some research next time before you post.

You're asking too much.

The flu shot only lasts a year. THE HORROR