cc_ag92 said:

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Can we please have a discussion about the efficacy of this treatment without including politics?

Let's look at data. Let's hear from scientists and doctors. Let's not discuss media and politics on this board. Please.

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Completely agree. Definitely want to avoid that because it evades the ultimate purpose of finding effective treatment.

I've seen such passionate discussions on this and honestly they feel more driven by political persuasion rather than facts.

My personal observation (obviously just one 1st person connection) is that this treatment worked very well when it was other wise dragging on.

My question is not to raise a debate but to honestly understand why a treatment that apparently works isn't being talked about much at all. This dr. office apparently gets calls from everywhere with these asks and they are willing to treat. I'm no doctor but it just seems weird that it's such an elusive treatment.

Where is this compounding pharmacy your MIL went? Would be very interested knowing the place making copies of a drug product so it could be shut down for illegally copying drug products.

ORAggieFan said:

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2PacShakur said:

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Where is this compounding pharmacy your MIL went? Would be very interested knowing the place making copies of a drug product so it could be shut down for illegally copying drug products.

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That's not what a compounding pharmacy does.

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I know what compounding pharmacies do.

Has Dr Rev commented on this? (Sorry new to the board)

I'm with you...would love to have that discussion too. I was hearing nothing but good things about it then it disappeared.

It would be nice to get a proper study of it and other therapeutics for a proper assessment of effectiveness for those that get the virus despite the vaccine or can't take it for whatever reason.

The third world might not be able to afford anti virals for everyone but maybe something that has some effect is worth knowing about. CoVID is here to stay, most likely, and we'll need to treat cases for years to come.

Science Denier said:

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imjustsayin said:

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So, nevermind. Was hoping for a decent dialogue from Texags to help me to understand something that clearly helped my MIL. It's sadly still a hot potato.

So frustrating that some thing that could possibly help people is being so politicized to the point where it's preventing honest conversations about when and where it's useful.

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Won't get that discussion here. There are many threads talking about HCQ. This board doesn't agree it helps, unless it's taken very early.

So many testimonies, like this one, where HCQ works. But, those are squashed by the media.

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Not sure it's a board issue or lack of expertise issue. I think it helps, but don't know enough. I'm saddened it's politicized. I wish I could add more to the discussion.

I think we will look back and many things done wrong and this may not even make the top 5.

I guess I understand the position of some in the medical community not supporting it as a reasonable means of treatment. And I certainly understand some patients not wishing to take it if they don't believe it works.

The thing I REALLY don't understand is the effective BANNING of the drug by pharmacies so that it simply CANT be accessed or prescribed to the extent that it's preventing some doctors who DO believe it to be a reasonable therapeutic from prescribing for their patients or having to come up with some backwoods methodology for getting it to their patients. The irony is, the pharmacies have it, because it's used to treat other things but I guess the doc has to say it's for those other things to get past the pharmacists.

I've found no good rational explanation for this position. ...and after watching my MIL respond so positively to it, I really struggle with why.

Those studies you posted are likely all contaminated with political motivation. Unfortunately there is nothing "official" that can be believed any longer.

My examples reside in the climate science arena. You telling me climate science isn't politicized?

John Maplethorpe said:

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OP,
Every blind placebo controlled trial conducted with a meaningful sample size has shown little or no efficacy for HCQ. It's been tried early in treatment, late in treatment, it's been tried as a prophylactic. It's been tried with and without azithromycin.

New England Journal of Medicine, Hydroxychloroquine with or without Azithromycin in Mild-to-Moderate Covid-19, July 23, 2020

Annals of Internal Medicine, Hydroxychloroquine in Nonhospitalized Adults With Early COVID-19, July 16, 2020

Clinical Infectious Diseases, Hydroxychloroquine for Early Treatment of Adults with Mild Covid-19: A Randomized-Controlled Trial, July 16, 2020

New England Journal of Medicine, A Randomized Trial of Hydroxychloroquine as Postexposure Prophylaxis for Covid-19, June 3, 2020

Recovery, No clinical benefit from use of hydroxychloroquine in hospitalised patients with COVID-19, June 5, 2020

MedRxIV, A Cluster-Randomized Trial of Hydroxychloroquine as Prevention of Covid-19 Transmission and Disease, July 26, 2020

MedRxIV, Hydroxychloroquine in patients mainly with mild to moderate COVID19: an openlabel, randomized, controlled trial, May 7, 2020


There is no conspiracy. Few patented drugs are even approved, none in wide use, while generic drugs are now standard treatment.

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UMMC in Houston has been using HCQ in the ICU for 8 months with fantastic results.

Look at the academic malfeasance videos from the heart hospital in Plano/Dallas doctor. Those are damning as well for anti-hcq rhetoric.

Please share any links if possible.

Have they done a RCT study? 99.3% survive on placebo.

HCQ is not very effective, and has major cardiac side effect risks: arrhythmias and cardiomyopathy


Now that Regeneron and monoclonal antibodies are available, that's the best medical treatment besides obviously 2 preventative vaccine shots.


https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/coronavirus-covid-19-update-fda-authorizes-monoclonal-antibodies-treatment-covid-19

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Supplements, etc.

Zinc, quercetin have mild positive effects.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.12.22.20245993v1.full.pdf

Zinc can slow viral replication. Quercetin reduces mitochondrial oxidative stress.

N-acetylecysteine (NAC) is a powerful antioxidant (supplement or clinically) that can dampen COVID-19.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7649937/

Resveratrol is a supplement that holds some promise, because in increases AMP Kinase, an enzyme and central regulator of metabolism

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20201127/Resveratrol-shows-potential-as-SARS-CoV-2-antiviral-study-finds.aspx



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A brief review of the SARS CoV-2 effect and chemistry. The virus that causes COVID-19 is a replicating machine. It produces a massive amount of viruses, because it's so effective at replication/cloning itself. Like all viruses, it needs your cells to do its dirty work. The SARS CoV-2 virus has a few tricks to fool your immune system at first. Then the virus hijacks the angiotensin converting enzyme 2 (ACE2 enzyme). This enzyme converts the hormone angiotensin to a truncated/shortened angiotensin[1-7]. Angiotensin[1-7] brings "balance to the force" and opposes excess effects of angiotensin II. The angiotensin[1-7]/angiotensin II ratio has to be just right, and not too low.

Angiotensin II is produced by angiotensin converting enzyme 1 (ACE1) from angiotensin. With COVID-19, ACE1 is high, and the highjacked ACEII can't produce much Angiotensin[1-7].

Result: angiotensin[1-7]/angiotensin II ratio is too low!

Why is this important? Angiotensin II is able to wreak havoc unchecked in the lungs, heart, brean, GI tract, all over the body!

Too much unchecked Angiotensin II causes lung damage, hypertension, blood clots, disruption of blood flow, major inflammation...damaging to your lungs, heart, brain, GI tract, kidneys, muscles, etc. Angiotensin II can function like an amplifier or positive feedback cycle causing LOTS of inflammation and oxidative stress.


Are there any proteins or chemicals in the body that can reduce the runaway effects of angiotensin II and thus inflammation and oxidative stress.

Compounds that can increase AMP kinase or that reduce angiotensin II could work.

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1. Resveratrol. As mentioned above. Powerful AMP Kinase stimulator.

2. Curcumin - powerful anti-inflammatory that is part of the spice tumeric. It's been used successfully to treat Duchenne muscular dystrophy and type II diabetes.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0014299920306439

3. Metformin elevates AMP kinase and thus can combat the cellular damage caused by COVID-19 and reduce excess immune response. Metformin is commonly used to treat Type II diabetes and must be prescribed by a physician.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7190487/

4. ACE I inhibitors (usually high blood pressure meds) such as Lisinopril have been shown to be effective against COVID-19, but again must be prescribed by a physician.

https://www.cardiovascularbusiness.com/topics/covid-19/ace-inhibitor-prior-hospitalization-mortality-covid-19

5. While megadoses of Vitamin D may or may not be helpful, there is evidence that Vitamin D deficiency increases risk and severity of COVID-19, so taking a reasonable supplement/vitamin would be protective.



Good luck and stay safe!

That's good news. I eat lots of ground cumin on foods I make. It's my favorite spice.