Why are healthy 40 somethings getting vaccinated given the larger backdrop?

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Windy City Ag
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10:00a, 1/27/21
AG
I was at my kid's sports practice last night and one of other Dads was talking about how he received the vaccine last week. His is 45 and in fine health but his wife happens to serve on the board of a local hospital and all board members and their families were apparently given the vaccine.

I have friends who are optometrists who looks at eyeballs all day but they were first in line to get the vaccine.

My wife has a relative whose buddy owns a pharmacy. That relative was able to get the vaccine even though he is in his 30s and in fine health.

In each case (except for the optometrists), there is some dubious claim of "these things are about to expire" which seems insane given the massive interest in vaccination all over the state and the ongoing inability of the elderly to find vaccinations.

How does this get fixed? Does it need to get fixed? Is there some fiduciary duty a hospital is violating by looking calling donors and wealthy volunteers prior to those designated by the State Department of Health as priority?

I get that we went to the private sector for distribution and that is always going to result in self dealing and lack of insight into aggregate inventory management. I say this as an unabashed fan of the private sector.

The whole vaccine distribution process seems so totally out of whack at this point and in need of reform. How do we improve this process?
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ExpressAg11
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In reply to Windy City Ag • 10:02a, 1/27/21
AG
The goal should be to get the vaccine into as many arms as possible. Period. In a perfect world, yes, elderly and immune compromised people would get it first. But anyone getting a vaccine these days should be considered a win.
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John Francis Donaghy
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10:05a, 1/27/21
Once a vial is opened it has to be used, I think within 6 hours, or else it has to be thrown away. When docs and pharmacists have opened vials at the end of the day, they're calling whoever they know who might be able to come right away to put the rest of the vial to use rather than have to throw it away. Not surprising docs and pharmacists tend to know other medical professionals.

Lots of stories about pharmacists grabbing random folks from around the stores their pharmacies are attached to when they need to finish a vial too. If you want a chance at one, you might try just hanging out near a pharmacy countrer around closing time. If they have doses that need to be used, you'll be right there.
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The Big12Ag
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10:07a, 1/27/21
I don't think it can be improved without a resultant hit on efficiency of distribution. We've never tried a vaccination program of this size and I can't remember any vaccinations in the past that rolled out by age or health conditions.

There are too many people who seem to be OK with getting vaccinated even though they aren't at high risk for serious illness, even when they know there are those who are high risk still waiting. So it's a negative human behavior and won't be improved unless we start requiring notes from doctors confirming the individual has a comorbidity or changing 1B to ONLY over age 65.
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Ag06Law
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In reply to Windy City Ag • 10:08a, 1/27/21
AG
Windy City Ag said:


I have friends who are optometrists who looks at eyeballs all day but they were first in line to get the vaccine.
Do you know how close you have to be to someone to look at their eyeballs?
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BadMoonRisin
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10:08a, 1/27/21
AG
The simple explanation is that they were looking for it. They dont just shoot you in the arm while you wait at a red light. They had to get online, ask if there is availability, make an appointment, wait in line, and get it.

All this other nonsense about the vials is malarkey. There wasn't some guy in a trench coat on the street corner that said "hey man, I got these open vials, want a vaccine? It's cool, the vial was already open".

Now why are healthy 40 somethings seeking out the vaccine? Because they are overestimating their risk factors and are scared because the media has been intentionally dishonest about how this disease affects mostly healthy population.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION TO THIS MATTER!
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TXTransplant
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10:13a, 1/27/21
I'm 42 and plan to get myself and my 16 year old son vaccinated as soon as the program is expanded to include us. I'm not trying to jump to the front of the line because we don't need to, and that's just morally/ethically wrong. But as soon as it's my turn, I'll be signing up. If it were available to me now, I'd be working to get it done ASAP.

I'm also not in a hurry because I've had covid and had about as mild a case as one can have without being completely asymptomatic.

But I plan to get vaccinated because we love to travel. We have a trip to Alaska planned for this summer. Long-term, I think proof of vaccination is going to be the easiest way to resume our normal travel habits.

I'm also not at all scared or fearful of the vaccination. People are vaccinated all the time more for convenience rather than some life-threatening concern (i.e., the chicken pox vaccine).

Vaccinations have got to be the best, if not one of the best, medical developments of the last 100 or so years. I trust them and I trust the process. There is nothing about this particular vaccine that has me concerned at all.
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Silky Johnston
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10:13a, 1/27/21
I'm under 40 and got the vaccine. There is a certain set of people that seem to want to shame anyone that got the vaccine that isn't on death's doorstep. I have no remorse for being offered the vaccine and taking it.
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I Am A Critic
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In reply to ExpressAg11 • 10:15a, 1/27/21
ExpressAg11 said:
The goal should be to get the vaccine into as many arms as possible. Period. In a perfect world, yes, elderly and immune compromised people would get it first. But anyone getting a vaccine these days should be considered a win.


EOT. The system is nowhere near perfect but it all
boils down to this. I'll wait my turn but I don't begrudge anyone for getting it regardless of circumstance. The sooner everyone can be vaccinated, the better.
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KlinkerAg11
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10:17a, 1/27/21
AG
I think it could be as simple as it's hard to navigate the online signup.

Unless you're at the webpage refreshing over and over it's hard to get into. I'd assume younger people are better at technology than older people.

It's why I'm signing up all my at risk employees one per week for them. I'd assume there are a lot of people doing the same for their loved ones.
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TXTransplant
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In reply to KlinkerAg11 • 10:21a, 1/27/21
KlinkerAg11 said:
I think it could be as simple as it's hard to navigate the online signup.

Unless you're at the webpage refreshing over and over it's hard to get into. I'd assume younger people are better at technology than older people.

It's why I'm signing up all my at risk employees one per week for them. I'd assume there are a lot of people doing the same for their loved ones.


This. The system, at least in Harris Co, was NOT conducive to getting an appt unless you sit in front of a computer all day and compulsively check for appts.

They introduced a "new" system yesterday, but last I heard, it wasn't working correctly, either. I'm not sure what the current status is.

But, you've got to figure the process is not user-friendly for the demographic who needs the vaccine the most. All the more reason for younger people who can get appts to go ahead and get poked in the arm, as they will indirectly protect the older folks.
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Windy City Ag
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In reply to Silky Johnston • 10:22a, 1/27/21
AG
Quote:
I'm under 40 and got the vaccine. There is a certain set of people that seem to want to shame anyone that got the vaccine that isn't on death's doorstep. I have no remorse for being offered the vaccine and taking it.
This isn't really my point though . . . .my point is that the system is not supposed to give it to you right now no matter what your level of self interest or personal moral stance.

I know I should not expect anything great from the types of state agencies that have brought us the Hurricane Katrina aftermath, but you would think that there would be a little less chaos given the implications of this effort.
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Windy City Ag
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In reply to KlinkerAg11 • 10:25a, 1/27/21
AG
Quote:
I think it could be as simple as it's hard to navigate the online signup.

Unless you're at the webpage refreshing over and over it's hard to get into. I'd assume younger people are better at technology than older people.

It's why I'm signing up all my at risk employees one per week for them. I'd assume there are a lot of people doing the same for their loved ones.
This is definitely an issue. I was talking with a work friend yesterday. His parents share one email and because of that the Travis County won't treat them as separate individuals. Now in a perfect world these old timers would just take the 5 seconds to get another gmail address but email befuddles them as is.

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KlinkerAg11
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In reply to TXTransplant • 10:25a, 1/27/21
AG
Yes I agree.

Either get the shot yourself, or volunteer to sign up older folks for them.

I think either is ok because it's leading to the same end goal.

I hope to have my whole staff vaccinated in two months, all of my employees are at risk.
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TXTransplant
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In reply to Windy City Ag • 10:26a, 1/27/21
Here in the Houston area, you're on the honor system. So, if you sign up under the "pre-existing condition" qualification, no one is going to verify your status. At least not at the public health vaccination sites.

I think hospitals are prioritizing who they call for appointments, probably at least in some part based on demographics and/or medical history.

I don't think there is any need for reform, other than for the public health agencies to make a website that freaking works properly.

As others have said, we need to get as many people poked as possible.
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aginlakeway
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In reply to John Francis Donaghy • 10:31a, 1/27/21
AG
John Francis Donaghy said:
Once a vial is opened it has to be used, I think within 6 hours, or else it has to be thrown away. When docs and pharmacists have opened vials at the end of the day, they're calling whoever they know who might be able to come right away to put the rest of the vial to use rather than have to throw it away. Not surprising docs and pharmacists tend to know other medical professionals.

Lots of stories about pharmacists grabbing random folks from around the stores their pharmacies are attached to when they need to finish a vial too. If you want a chance at one, you might try just hanging out near a pharmacy counter around closing time. If they have doses that need to be used, you'll be right there.

This is 100% accurate. First-hand knowledge.
One day at a time.
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aginlakeway
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In reply to BadMoonRisin • 10:36a, 1/27/21
AG
BadMoonRisin said:
The simple explanation is that they were looking for it. They dont just shoot you in the arm while you wait at a red light. They had to get online, ask if there is availability, make an appointment, wait in line, and get it.

All this other nonsense about the vials is malarkey. There wasn't some guy in a trench coat on the street corner that said "hey man, I got these open vials, want a vaccine? It's cool, the vial was already open".

Now why are healthy 40 somethings seeking out the vaccine? Because they are overestimating their risk factors and are scared because the media has been intentionally dishonest about how this disease affects mostly healthy population.

No it is not. First-hand knowledge.

Vials of 10 vaccines have leftover amounts if people don't show up for appointments. The vaccine has a very narrow shelf life. They have to be used or thrown away. They are thus being used on anyone the doctor or pharmacist can find ASAP.

There is usually not enough time to call people who were "next up" and ask them to come in. Nor is there time to go to a senior citizens home at find some arms to poke. So people close by are getting the vaccine. Or it is getting throw away.

What I am stating is 100% fact. First-hand knowledge. And yes, I have been vaccinated.
One day at a time.
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Capitol Ag
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In reply to BadMoonRisin • 10:56a, 1/27/21
AG
BadMoonRisin said:
The simple explanation is that they were looking for it. They dont just shoot you in the arm while you wait at a red light. They had to get online, ask if there is availability, make an appointment, wait in line, and get it.

All this other nonsense about the vials is malarkey. There wasn't some guy in a trench coat on the street corner that said "hey man, I got these open vials, want a vaccine? It's cool, the vial was already open".

Now why are healthy 40 somethings seeking out the vaccine? Because they are overestimating their risk factors and are scared because the media has been intentionally dishonest about how this disease affects mostly healthy population.
Actually it is very much true. And no, they aren't going to street corners. They are approaching customers in the stores where the pharmacy is shopping. Walgreens, CVS and grocery stores all have pharmacies and sell other products too. There are plenty of people at a store available to offer the vaccine to if the vial is opened. And pharmacists have had to call people when there are not people in store. This has been documented. My own father was technically one of these. It was at his nursing home and they had an open vial. Literally just called him and others. He answered and did it. Granted, he is 85 and totally qualified, but it shows that once the vial is open, they have to use it or throw it away. Again, in the end, it is about getting shots in arms.

As for 40 somethings getting vaccinations "ahead" of others, remember, not everyone brags about their health conditions and whether they are at risk or not. You'd look at me and think I was in my 30's, but I am 47 and immunosuppressed. So I actually qualify. Many more do qualify than you'd think. Haven't gotten it yet but a lot of it is the fact that the people who have gotten it are doing the research and taking the extra steps to get the vaccine. It might mean just being ready to head down to Fair Park or Arlington and stand in line. Again, I just want as many shots in as many arms. Think of it like Sherman's March through the South or the bombing campaign in WWII. Taking out your enemy as fully and completely as quickly as possible ends the war faster and in theory saves more lives vs. stretching a war out longer. The more people that get vaccinated, the closer we get to herd immunity. Which saves more lives faster in the end.
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Tramp96
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In reply to ExpressAg11 • 11:22a, 1/27/21
ExpressAg11 said:
The goal should be to get the vaccine into as many arms as possible. Period. In a perfect world, yes, elderly and immune compromised people would get it first. But anyone getting a vaccine these days should be considered a win.
Kind of like lifeboats on a sinking ship.

Yes, women, children, elderly, etc. should be the first in the lifeboat. But that doesn't mean you lower a lifeboat that has empty seats in it simply because there were no more women, children, etc. left at that spot.
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Marauder Blue 6
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11:25a, 1/27/21
AG
I can't help but wonder if the same national ID that should be required to vote could be used in this instance to help facilitate vaccinations in the appropriate populations based on age.
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PJYoung
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11:31a, 1/27/21
AG
I know it's not proven yet but if the vaccine does prevent spread then it's not a bad thing at all that younger people are getting it.
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TXTransplant
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12:07p, 1/27/21
This is anecdotal, but I just got a text from my dad. He and my mom are both patients at Houston Methodist. They are both over 65. He got a text saying he can schedule his appt; she hasn't gotten one, yet.

She's a year older than he is, but he has a pre-existing.

So, this tells me hospitals are prioritizing based on age and medical conditions. Hospitals can do that because they have access to your health info.

Public health organizations cannot practically screen for pre-existing conditions. And I don't think they should be expected to. Since age isn't the only qualifier right now, you've got to figure people who should be lower priority are going to get their shots ahead of those who are higher priority. Honestly, I don't have a problem with that, especially since public health distribution sites aren't the only place you can get a vaccination.

To me, this isn't a problem that needs to be fixed.

The new Harris County site is no longer scheduling appointments. You get on a wait list and they will contact you to schedule. It says they are prioritizing based on status 1A first, and then 1B by age. Who knows if that's actually how it will work, but that's what it says.

The issue with 1B is there is no guidance on how to prioritize. If you have one shot, do you give it to a 70 year old with no preexistings (other than age) or a 55 year old diabetic? Both are equally qualified under the current distribution guidelines.
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Emotional Support Cobra
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12:18p, 1/27/21
AG
My institution vaccinated its whole workforce. Since we are on the front lines of the research side of things.

Having the insitution population vaxed keeps the institution going at full force so fewer people work from home or take off sick/quarantine.

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TXTransplant
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In reply to Emotional Support Cobra • 12:24p, 1/27/21
Don't forget, every state is different, too. I've heard OK has authorized the vaccination of workers at certain industrial/manufacturing facilities (i.e., refineries). Now, those employers still have to get their hands on vaccine, but distribution is approved.

Compare that to NY who, at least up until a week or so ago, had only approved the vaccine for CERTAIN first responders/health care workers. Dentists were actually specifically excluded from that group until a week or so ago. Argument was they just didn't have enough vaccine.
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John Francis Donaghy
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12:32p, 1/27/21
Also lots of young, healthy people that work with the elderly and at-risk.

Los of folks love to talk about quarantining the elderly in the their nursing homes, but that's just not reality. There is an army of caregivers, therapists, kitchen staff, custodial staff, and administrative staff, not to mention other services providers like barbers and hair stylists that keep those places running and take care of the residents every day.

Those young healthy people are prime vectors for spreading the virus through the most at-risk populations, and vaccinating them directly protects the elderly even though you may not be able to see it.
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nai06
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In reply to TXTransplant • 12:58p, 1/27/21
AG
TXTransplant said:
Don't forget, every state is different, too. I've heard OK has authorized the vaccination of workers at certain industrial/manufacturing facilities (i.e., refineries). Now, those employers still have to get their hands on vaccine, but distribution is approved.

Compare that to NY who, at least up until a week or so ago, had only approved the vaccine for CERTAIN first responders/health care workers. Dentists were actually specifically excluded from that group until a week or so ago. Argument was they just didn't have enough vaccine.
I know of at least one site in the DFW area that is vaccinating any teacher that produces a school id. Teachers currently fall outside of the the 1B category Texas set up but are included in the 1B category recommended by the CDC.
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bay fan
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In reply to John Francis Donaghy • 12:59p, 1/27/21
S
Though I agree with you, one of the surprising things to me has been the exceptionally high rate at which care home workers have been declining to be vaccinated.

I vacillate between agreeing we must prioritize our older population to wondering if a system which alternated between older and those in the work force who are actively involved with others and therefore more likely to spread it should be employed. It's almost what seems to be happening except it would then allow for rule followers to also be represented in the lucky group to be vaccinated.

The only people I am sure should 100% be prioritized are doctors/healthcare workers.
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Capitol Ag
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1:01p, 1/27/21
AG
Agree with a lot of these posts. The thing is, if they do get very strick with giving out the vaccine, how could that be managed effectively. How can you prioritized the 1B recipients without wasting doses or creating more issues. Is the 55 year old diabetic in more need of the vaccine over the 45 year old single mom who takes Remicade for her Crohn's Disease or Humara for her RA? Tough calls and take time vs just going with who is available and on the list.

In the end, I think the EOT post is ExpressAg11. There isn't anything to "fix" other than getting more doses out to the public at large.
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DeangeloVickers
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1:16p, 1/27/21
AG
Shaming those who get it should not be allowed.

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Windy City Ag
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In reply to ExpressAg11 • 1:18p, 1/27/21
AG
Quote:
Do you know how close you have to be to someone to look at their eyeballs?
Probably a little bit closer than you have to get in all those other important elective procedures and surgeries that have been put on hold.

I did talk to my friends about it and they said Optometrists are actually being considered as a channel to administer the vaccines once the inventory of doses really get rolling, which sounds like a very smart plan.
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HotardAg07
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1:20p, 1/27/21
AG
I understand why it's happening, but it's still frustrating. My mom and I struggled (to no avail) to get my 84 year old grandmother a vaccine. Appointments gone everywhere, not sure how to work the system. My grandmother came down with COVID this weekend and has been taking a turn for the worse in the last couple days. It's scary and frustrating all at the same time. I don't begrudge anyone who has a chance to get a shot ahead of schedule, I just wish that our city/country/health/national leaders had a better plan to get shots into the arms of people who needed it at the high priority. I wish it was simpler to figure out. My grandma isn't rich and doesn't have the luxury to sit at a computer all day researching.
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GAC06
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In reply to DeangeloVickers • 1:22p, 1/27/21
AG
DeangeloVickers said:
Shaming those who get it should not be allowed.



People lying to cut the line ahead of people more at risk absolutely deserve shame for their shameful action
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nai06
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1:30p, 1/27/21
AG
If you want a shot and don't mind a little waiting, show up to a vaccine hub just before they close. There's a good chance they will have a few doses left over that they need to use
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El Hombre Mas Guapo
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1:33p, 1/27/21
AG
My billionaire boss (healthy, age 39) just got one in San Antonio yesterday when they're all but impossible to come by there

And this is my shocked face
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jopatura
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1:34p, 1/27/21
AG
It comes down to 40 year olds are better at the internet, have more ability to drive somewhere, and qualify under obesity. I live in the Austin area and know several people that got in at the Alamodome in SA this way. Then I know a few spouses of healthcare workers that work from home that basically got a call that said "be in here in 10 min" and they could.

My parents both registered with their doctors and are waiting their turn. My father who is a cancer survivor had his doctor preregister him through the Harris County system. My mom is still waiting and not actively looking for it (and doesn't want to go stand in line at a stadium).
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